When is it time to do intake upgrades?

Redlined · Post by **Redlined** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:05 pm

finally scored a td-05 16g. Been collecting parts for a good long while. My TMIC has been staring at me for months wanting to be installed but I didnt want to carve up a good set of hoses to have to buy new hoses when I got the new Turbo so its sat.

So soon to come updates ill be adding the new turbo and intercooler. have some N/A fuel rails for when I get to the point I need them. Wich made me think. when WILL I need them?

you can see my mods list. Currently running 8.5 LBS boost. Want to turn it up a bit when I get the turbo in. My left foots says it would like to try out 20 lbs boost at least once. My right brain says 12-15 lbs should be plenty.

I know you need a Fuel Cut Defender somewhere in the 12-13 lbs boost range.

at what point do I need to upgrade to the Wallboro <sp?> Fuel pump?

What is the maximum boost stock Injectors will support? 440s? 550s?

Thanks in advance!

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 12:59 am

I just read that whole thing and didn't see anything about intake upgrades.

Redlined · Post by **Redlined** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:03 am

You dont feel that fuel supply and delivery are part of the intake?

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:07 am

Yeah sort of but I would have called it fuel upgrades. I was thinking this thread would have been about desnorkus or something along those lines.

Redlined · Post by **Redlined** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:14 am

Sorry if I mislead you, i come from pretty old school thinking. 60s and 70s V8s Anything above the heads where considered intake. so I just kinda equated fuel injectors to Carborator and went with it. I guess Fuel upgrades might have been a better title.

mexicanzero · Post by **mexicanzero** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:39 am

so for the hell of it i'll give my input although not the greatest probably

i'm running the revtronix chip and you need to have the 440s to run the td-04 at 17 psi so if you wanted to run the td-05 at 17psi you'd need probably 480s

the stock injectors are good till bout 12 psi with the td-04 i beleive either way at that point the stock maf maxes out and the injectors go static (wide open) so you loose power and fuel efficiency big time and risk having an injector stick open and hydrolock the engine. with the stock maf i wouldnt go over 12psi and thats pushing it with the maf and the stock injectors.

if you can afford engine management go with 550s and a jecs maf and put the td-05 in at 20 psi on a good tune

if not then get the revtronix chip for the td-04 but still use the td-05 and a jecs maf and at least 480cc injectors(they will fit in the stock turbo leg fuel rails mine are 480cc yellowtops and they fit fine) and then run 93 octane in power mode it'll be 17 psi and it'll be plenty fun
theres a good couple of people running the td-05 off the td-04 chip and i havent heard of any issues, and they are making a td-05 chip in the near future. and the chip will take care of the fuel cut for you.

for the fuel pump technically you should do it ASAP because if not you risk being left stranded with a dead fuel pump who knows where.

so basically the cheapest reliable way of doing this is do the fuel pump get the chip and all the other bits needed to make it work (injectors, maf, intercooler etc.) and put everything together with the td-05.

oh and i recommend before any of this get a high flow cat and a 3" turbo back exhaust(i went the ebay route, it was very cheap and extremely effective and good sounding) or no cat if you dont need it. and i do highly recommend this. it will net you more power and will stress the turbo out much less

and have you done the power mode button hack to the transmission ecu? if you havent then you should do it. its free and will make a huuuuuuuge difference when driving aggressively. i'd almost say it makes having the 4eat better than the 5 spd just cause they dont seem to break near as much and with the power mode button you can almost control the shifts with the gas pedal.

-Alex

Redlined · Post by **Redlined** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:07 am

thats alot to absorb. The power mode switch is a new one to me but sounds interesting. You happen to have a link to a guide for it?

Most of the rest of it seems pretty straight forward but I do need to ask if your using the chip in a stand alone engine management system or with the stock harness.

mexicanzero · Post by **mexicanzero** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:21 am

you havent heard of the revtronix chip? it plugs right in to the stock ecu thast it thats all theres 2 versions out one for a stock car and one for the td-04 and intercooler blah blah..
check these out
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=37582
http://www.revtronix.com/products/subar ... stage2chip
http://www.revtronix.com/forum/65

and the power mode switch (you basically just have to ground a pin off the tcu harness either with an external switch or using the manual button on the shifter like i did). it explains it all in the thread.
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic. ... e+override

Redlined · Post by **Redlined** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:32 am

Ahh yes. id heard of it. The name just didnt stick in my head. (I suck like that). The chip itself make a big differance? Whats it like for just toodling mode? when your not driving agresively.

Think I remember reading that article about the power mode switch way back when I had my N/A leggy. something else to put thought into!

Thanks heaps! lots of good information!

mexicanzero · Post by **mexicanzero** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:44 am

oh yeah the chip is basically a retune, like getting a piggyback and having someone tune it on a dyno ecept cheaper. read up on the revtronix guys on both our and their forums, they're great and very helpful.
my first impression was i had noticeably more power on 14 psi than i had before the chip at 15 psi so you can imagine at 17 psi it was a way big difference.
and driving nicely i got much better fuel economy than before and i actually got a bit better fuel economy even when driving very not nicely at 17 psi vs the previous 15.

the biggest thing with the chip is you can run bigger injectors and the jecs maf which maxes out at much higher psi than the stocker so you can run 17 psi. with the stock maf and stock injectors you CAN'T go anywhere near that cuz the stock ecu cant control bigger injectors or the jecs maf. and they altered the timing and fueling maps to suit lots of power on throttle in power mode (hence why you have to run 93 octane) but better fuel economy off throttle.

with the kind of mods most of us have it reeally makes no sense to not get it considering the price vs. other em possibilities.

-Alex

mexicanzero · Post by **mexicanzero** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 2:44 am

oh and the power mode mod took literally 20 mins to do.

asc_up · Post by **asc_up** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 6:15 pm

mexicanzero wrote: i'm running the revtronix chip and you need to have the 440s to run the td-04 at 17 psi so if you wanted to run the td-05 at 17psi you'd need probably 480s

Jake at PIA has his Legacy running 440cc injectors and a TD05 at 17 PSI WITHOUT any sort of tuning (stock ECU) and it's been running great for over a year and rips on STis. That said, he has EJ20G heads so he's making more power than if you were to do the same thing on stock Legacy heads.

mexicanzero · Post by **mexicanzero** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 10:57 pm

doesnt mean its a good idea though. his maf is being maxed out for sure so the injectors are wide open not pulsing above probably 12 psi and injectors are not meant to be open longer than a split second, thats just how they are designed.
one day one of them might not close when he lets off the throttle and he'll have issues.

aand i bet he'd be making even more power with better fuel efficiency if he had a good tune.
that being said i ran the td-04 at 15psi for close to a year with stock em and it didnt run bad, horrible fuel economy but good power (still way less than when i put the chip in). but by the end of it one of my injectors was having serious issues not closing properly all the time so i decided to change them and do the chip and stuff at the same time

for the price of the chip why doesnt jake get one? he'll be on a safer tune makin more power and wasting less gas.
and its bad to run injectors past i think 75% duty cycle and i'd bet he'd run lean on the 440's if they were limited to that but its not like i've tested it do i dont know.
i'm just trying to recomend the safest way for Redlined to run what he has on his car. lots of things can be done but shouldnt.
-Alex

Redlined · Post by **Redlined** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:03 pm

Is "jake" the same as the "Jake-15" that posts to this board?

asc_up · Post by **asc_up** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:25 pm

Yes, it is.

And mexicanzero, I absolutely agree with you, I was just pointing out another member's experience. I think he does it because he has an endless supply to Subaru parts for nearly no cost to him.

mexicanzero · Post by **mexicanzero** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 2:30 am

hah lucky bastard... i could definitely use cheap parts.
to get things started you could always drop all the parts you have in your car and run it like jake with stock em and on 440's it will probably run well just dont make it a permanent setup.

on another note i think its time i start looking for a td-05... gettin bored of the 04...

-Alex

sublunacy · Post by **sublunacy** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 10:16 am

Redlined about injector size. someone needs to point you towards the new scantool so you can check the "injector duty cycle" and mafduty?( tired can't remember) to see what your injectors and Maf are doing. Best part is its free. VWRX select monitor....

RJ93SS · Post by **RJ93SS** » Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:05 am

now you got the td05.

stare at it, along with your intercooler until...

you have

fuel rails,
injectors,
walbro,
bigger intake,
revtronix td05 chip or drive up and get tuned,.

then, after your done run it around 14-16 psi.

then...

head swap and your done

legacycentral bbs

A forum for 89-94 BC-BF(BJ) Legacy Owners and Fans

When is it time to do intake upgrades?

When is it time to do intake upgrades?