A/C Clicking off and on rapidly, here's what I've done..

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MrTodd
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A/C Clicking off and on rapidly, here's what I've done..

Post by MrTodd »

So, I noticed that my A/C randomly likes to click off and on while driving or idling. Sometimes it clicks VERY rapidly. Many times it just stays off, other times it actually stays on for like 10 seconds (and when it actually IS on, the air is very nice and ice cold!). I know the A/C is supposed to switch off and on in somewhat regular intervals during normal use, according to the cooling element temperature, but my situation is certainly abnormal. After looking through threads on this forum, I found that the "clicking" I'm hearing is coming from the dash. From what I found, chances are my problem may be the thermo switch.

That said, I went to my local junkyard and pulled a few thermo switches from the same vehicle (89-94 Legacy Wagons). I found 2 that had the sensor/switch fully intact, so I grabbed them - fully knowing that they are likely to have similar issues to mine, considering their age. Anyway, onward.

Here are the two junkyard thermo switches I found...
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Now, I'm glad I went to the junkyard first as I was able to figure out how everything worked (ie digging through the dashboard) without worrying about ruining things. Thus, when I came home to my car, I was able to work on things confidently. That said, accessing the thermo switch is relatively simple. Just remove the glovebox, and the switch is sitting on top of the evaporator core box..

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I simply removed the 3p connector and plugged it into each of my junkyard units to see if they'd even work...

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Turns out only 1 of them actually worked. At this point I decided to attempt to replace the thermo switch with the working junkyard unit. Problem is, it's impossible to reach inside of the evaporator core box to remove the embedded thermo switch probe.... At least until I got one of these.

Image

Hemostats are used in the medical industry for a variety of purposes. Since I couldn't bring any home from work, I found out that Harbor Freight sells them for roughly $5 a piece. That is where I picked the above one up (it's 12" long).

Now, you can access the evaporator core without removing too many things. First, you must remove the upper and lower mounting nut/bolt on the box.

(lower mounting bolt)
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(upper mounting nut which also holds this bracket + relay)
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Once you've got those off, you need to remove the fan resistor switch, and all 3 metal clips holding the 2 halves of the box together... Once those are done, you get this.

(disregard the extra thermo switch hanging there)
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As you can see, you can split open the box to a certain extent. You can also pull it forward/outward and down a little bit. This is enough access to remove the old switch and replace it. The original thermo switch sits on top of the evaporator core box, and the temperature probe goes inside of the box, through a small hole in the top left rear-ish area of the box. Pictured below is the sensor, as you can see it's pressed into the core fins with a clip for extra security (although it's not needed).

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To remove the old switch, you must first remove the temperature probe. This is where your hemostat comes in. Grip the base of the wires closest to the core, clip them tight, then work out the probe. The retaining clip isn't too tight, thus you can simply pull the wire out from the clip while it still stays in place. Here is the original thermo switch, in all its glory...

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As you can see above, the sensor has a bit of sealant where the wires enter into the box, to keep everything relatively air tight. Now, if you're paranoid you can keep the original sealant of your junkyard thermo switch, but honestly it makes reinserting the new probe extremely difficult. Thus I chose to remove the sealant off my junkyard unit. Without sealant you will lose a TINY bit of air, but it's very small and not noticeable. If I really wanted to, I could patch the area with duct tape, but it doesn't bother me at all (the hole is VERY small).

Anyway, installing the new switch is obviously reverse of removal, and it can be slightly tedious, but it's really not too bad. Start off by threading in your temp probe from the top. You have to work by feel at this point because you can't see the hole. What I ended up doing is to shine my phone flash light inside of the box, to where I could see where the wire should go from the inside. After a bit of trial and error, I found the hole from the top, and threaded in the replacement wiring/probe. At this point you can see the new probe/wire. The rest is simple, just work your hemostat to grab the probe, and shove it into place. Don't forget to do your best to clip it into the retainer clip as well!

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And there we are. It's not perfect, but that probe is firmly in place. At this point I just clipped the replacement thermo switch onto the top of the box where the original was, put my 3 metal clips to close the box halves, reinstalled my mounting nut and bolt (all while reinstalling the metal bracket + relay combo on the top!). Reinstall your fan resistor switch, reinstall the glovebox, and boom - done.

Now, with the sensor in place I tested it again. A/C is actually working properly as far as I can tell! However, I've just tested it with a hot engine, idling. The compressor clicks on and stays one for about 1 minute, then clicks off for about 15 seconds, then clicks back on for the same time. This is how it SHOULD have been working all along. Even so, I'm still a bit cautious. It may not work perfectly whilst driving, but even if it doesn't, I don't think I'll mind too much, as it is already LOADS better than the original thermo switch.

Thanks for reading, and I hope this helps others who may be in a similar situation.
MrTodd
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Re: A/C Clicking off and on rapidly, here's what I've done..

Post by MrTodd »

Update - -

So I drove it to work yesterday, and it seems to be working MUCH better; however, it still occasionally does some rapid fire clicking, but I mostly notice it when on the freeway. I'm now debating on attempting to jumper the negative terminal to the "L" terminal just to see if that indeed does bypass the thermo switch, resulting in an always-on compressor. I'm assuming that if there is a different electrical problem, such as a faulty alternator causing the voltage and/or amperage to drop slightly at certain RPM's, then it *should* still show itself even when the thermo switch is jumpered.

I'll post my results.
Legacy777
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Re: A/C Clicking off and on rapidly, here's what I've done..

Post by Legacy777 »

Just to note, you can cut the wires and splice the new thermo switch into the existing thermo sensor.


I'd suggest getting some AC gauges or going to a shop to check the pressures. You may be low on refrigerent, which is causing the system to cycle excessively.
Josh

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1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
MrTodd
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Re: A/C Clicking off and on rapidly, here's what I've done..

Post by MrTodd »

The reason why I replace the entire switch with the sensor is because I really don't want to splice into the old sensor. Using a long hemostat was actually very easy, easier than I would imagine trying to fiddle in some wire splices up in that cramped space. Along with replacing the entire unit, I don't have to worry about my old sensor being bad or not.

Even so, both switches and sensors are relatively old. Haha.

Anyway, I think that's a good idea. I may ask around the local shops to see how much it would cost for an A/C diagnostic. But, still, I'm hesitant to assume the refrigerant is the cause. It may very well be, but it blows such cold air, I love it. Lastly, I may not even worry about it - as the performance is substantially better with the replacement junkyard thermo switch.....that said, seeing how it ACTUALLY improved with the replacement of the switch, makes me think that it really is the thermo switch itself that is causing the problem.



Oh, and PS, for anyone thinking that you may be able to resolder the connections inside of the thermo switch - looks like it's non serviceable. Take a look: Filled with epoxy from the factory. :(

Image
Legacy777
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Re: A/C Clicking off and on rapidly, here's what I've done..

Post by Legacy777 »

Another option and a cheap option is to get a digital thermometer that has an indoor temp and a little wire and temperature bulb to give you the outdoor temp. Put the outdoor bulb in the vents with the HVAC system on AC Max and fan of 4. The outlet air temp and system pressures can tell a lot about how the system is working.

If you get the pressures, let us know what you find out.
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
MrTodd
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Re: A/C Clicking off and on rapidly, here's what I've done..

Post by MrTodd »

Josh, thanks for the responses. I think that'ssomething I can do.
jefferson
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Re: A/C Clicking off and on rapidly, here's what I've done..

Post by jefferson »

An ac system will blow the coldest air when it is low on freon. At lest that is what I have been told before. That might explain your pleasure with the cold temps.
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MrTodd
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Re: A/C Clicking off and on rapidly, here's what I've done..

Post by MrTodd »

Well, I haven't gotten around to testing the outside vs inside temperature just yet, as I've been doing other projects (eg just finished installing new KYB struts all around). However, on the way back home from work I took this video in an attempt to hear the clicking I'm talking about.

It seems to cycle pretty regularly, what I'd imagine a normal system should be doing (or at least I think so). But each time it switches over, it's a short burst of rapid fire clicking instead of just one click. The air itself feels nice and continuously cold.


Video - - http://youtu.be/vuEgFP1hfRY


Hopefully you can hear the clicking with the video. It's faint, but with your speakers turned up loud enough you'll hear it. The outside temperature was roughly 87 degrees F when I took that video, IIRC. Again, it's cycling normally (or at least i think it is), but when it cycles it clicks a lot, instead of just one click.

Josh - I'm still planning on grabbing a temperature gauge to check temps! Also, seeing how I am completely new to A/C, which hose/nipple/cap am I checking the pressure on? I see at least two of them in the engine bay..
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Re: A/C Clicking off and on rapidly, here's what I've done..

Post by Legacy777 »

jefferson wrote:An ac system will blow the coldest air when it is low on freon. At lest that is what I have been told before. That might explain your pleasure with the cold temps.

I've been told the same thing. Which is why it's good to know what the pressures and temperatures are doing.
Josh

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1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
Legacy777
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Re: A/C Clicking off and on rapidly, here's what I've done..

Post by Legacy777 »

MrTodd wrote:Josh - I'm still planning on grabbing a temperature gauge to check temps! Also, seeing how I am completely new to A/C, which hose/nipple/cap am I checking the pressure on? I see at least two of them in the engine bay..
You primarily want to know what the low pressure side is doing. That port is on the hose coming from the fire wall (evaporator).

The high pressure side isn't as important unless you have the low pressure and ambient temperature. Depending on what gauges you use, you may need to get an R12 to R134a adapter for the fitting. You may be able to find a deal on R12 gauges. If not, the adapters are cheap.
Josh

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1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
MrTodd
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Re: A/C Clicking off and on rapidly, here's what I've done..

Post by MrTodd »

Do I take the pressure readings while the A/C is running?
Legacy777
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Re: A/C Clicking off and on rapidly, here's what I've done..

Post by Legacy777 »

Yes, the AC must be running.
Josh

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1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
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