EJ22T rebuild to be dropped into Fozz

[swan3609]

So a while back I came across a project 91SS. The car was going to be a track car and the kid ran out of time/money. I bought the 91SS for 1k and it came with a slew of parts.


My original intentions were to get it running solid and just enjoy its for a while, but I have realized that the body is too far away from being a comfortable driver.. It needs full interior and tons of other body work and creature comforts to be a "decent" driver. I am not crazy about the 90s legacy body style anyways. I have always wanted a boosted first gen Fozzy anyways.


So I am planning on yanking the EJ22T, the 5mt, FMIC and anything else useful out of the Legacy, rebuild the EJ22T with a hybrid of some sort, and then drop it into a recipient forester with a standalone ECU or appropriate ECU for the heads I end up with. Not set in stone yet on if I want to do standalone or some sort of Stock ECU.. I don't have to pass emissions in my state so I feel like that makes life easier as well.



So I am not opposed to spending to get a decent motor out of the deal. I would like 400whp, but in reality, a reliable 300hp is what I think is more realistic. I am not totally sure what CR I want to shoot for but I have herd a few people say slap on some 25D heads and just boost it and deal with the low CR.. I am pretty open to ideas and I know that it's not going to be cheap to get that kind of power.. But wanted to get a feel for the best way to do this without dumping 10k into this project..


Also, I am going to have a 91ss shell available shortly if anyone has a need for it! Haha

[PhyrraM]

300HP is the limit for the rods and likely the OEM pistons too.

400HP is a fully prepped rebuild, in which case these days your better off starting with a EJ255/257 block as the parts needed are all well documented and off-the-shelf.

[swan3609]

300HP is the limit for the rods and likely the OEM pistons too.

400HP is a fully prepped rebuild, in which case these days your better off starting with a EJ255/257 block as the parts needed are all well documented and off-the-shelf.

I am not apposed to new rods/pistons/crank.. I am going to take the motor all the way down and have it freshened up. I liked the idea of the ej22t block for the ability to run big boost. But I also can sell the car and parts off for more than what I have into the project.


Woolman Performance is local to me and they do all sorts of builds on EJ257 blocks. I guess I just feel like I could get a more bullet proof motor for cheaper what I want using my 22T, but I am absolutely open to selling off the running 22T and starting with a 255/257..

[PhyrraM]

Here is my suggested build decision-making-process for Subarus.

A - Choose your engine management. This can be anything from stock (with or without piggybacks) to fully custom. The reason is that your choice determines what other components you build with.

B - Choose your intake manifold and throttlebody based on your ECU choice. This is the most variable of all. EJ22/EJ20G wiring means a EJ22E/EJ22T/EJ20G throttlebody and TPS and a proper intake manifold to match that and your head choice (DOHC or SOHC). GD WRX wiring means EJ205 parts. USDM STI wiring/ECU means drive-by-wire stuff. The choices are almost endless, but are generally one of those 3 choices.

C - Choose your heads based on prior choices. Phase 1 DOHC, Phase 1 SOHC, and Phase 2 are the general categories. But each general category has many choices. For example, phase 1 DOHC heads can be Legacy EJ20G, WRX EJ20G, EJ20K, EJ20K STI, Legacy twin turbo, Forester EJ20G, EJ25D, etc, etc. Phase 2 is even more confusing because of AVCS (and dual AVCS) on some types.

Notice the block hasn't been mentioned yet? That's because basically any block from 2.0 to 2.5+ strokers can work under any of the the above builds. You just match to your needs, desires and most significantly --- budget.

I'm not opposed to the EJ22T build. Hell, I've built one (years ago). The "legend" of the EJ22T was built before the semi-closed deck block had arrived. It was a 'legend' compared to the open deck 2.5s - specifically the phase 1 EJ25D, which was a compromised design from the start. When the OEM turbo 2.5s came out and proved the strength of the semi-closed deck block, the appeal of the EJ22T started to fade. Now, 10+ years later, the whole industry is set up to build 2.0s and 2.5s. You can simply build a EJ257/EJ255 block with off-the-shelf parts cheaper than an EJ22T. That's the reason I don't recommend the EJ22T anymore.

If your gonna be happy with 300ish HP, slap any set of DOHC heads (don't worry about compression ratio) and a TD05-16G on an EJ22T and tune by any prefered method.

[swan3609]

If your gonna be happy with 300ish HP, slap any set of DOHC heads (don't worry about compression ratio) and a TD05-16G on an EJ22T and tune by any prefered method.

Thank you for the info! I definitely have some major research to do still. The motor is still running well but is high miles. Hence wanting to pull it apart and freshen it up.. The easy and probably best method is going to be just slapping some DOHC heads and a standalone ECU on it for now. Then if stuff blows up later on, I am not too invested in it and I can go with a different build later on.

[Legacy777]

There are some very good responses and I am in agreement about the ej22t vs. just starting with an EJ257/255.

You can take a look at my build thread and everything I've done with my car/motor. If I ever do anything more with the motor I will likely just got with a stock or slightly built EJ257 where I can get a more or less "off the shelf" tune for that particular engine and make excess of 300 hp. You have to work a lot harder on the ej22t to make bigger power (anything over 300).

The other thing I'd suggest is really consider staying with some form of stock ECU that can be tuned via open source tuning of some kind. Stand alone EM gives you a lot of flexibility, but then you end up spending more time jacking with the EM vs. driving and enjoying the car. So use that info for what it's worth, but the one thing I definitely recommend is making sure you have local tuning support for the engine management you choose, regardless of what it is. I've been through two tuners in Texas and then finally drove the car to Northern California and most recently, shipped the car back out there late last year to have it retuned with the new motor.

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=47942

[wtdash]

but the one thing I definitely recommend is making sure you have local tuning support for the engine management you choose, regardless of what it is.

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=47942

+10000


And if you're boosting your Foz, here's my '98 Build.

BTW, there is nothing for the '98 Fozzie's stock ECU. Piggyback or Standalone only. I'm not sure about the '99+, but don't think there were any stock ECU options 'til around '04, and that was for the XT model.

Td

[swan3609]

I have a great tuner and AWD dyno that's a quarter mile from my bike shop I work at.. So I have support for whatever I end up doing.. I have discussed with him a few times about what EM I should do and it's been an active discussion between us.

Wtdash- I am in N. Idaho as well.. So we have a good following locally and a dyno in Hayden to us.

I think I need to research and see what heads/ECU I want to run. Part of the reason wanting to go full standalone was to make the swap into a NA fozz easier , but I guess if you source a full ECU from another car, it wouldn't be terrible either. As mentioned, I may just slap some DOHC heads and accompanying ECU and then just plan for a 255/257 build down the road later. We all want big power, but I think I need to be realistic and keep the power goals lower for this first boosted Subie swap.

[wtdash]

I may just slap some DOHC heads and accompanying ECU and then just plan for a 255/257 build down the road later. We all want big power, but I think I need to be realistic and keep the power goals lower for this first boosted Subie swap.

You haven't listed your Foz's year, but remember - there was no turbo'd Subaru in the USA from '95-'01, and the non-USA ECUs don't swap easily - You'd need to do a full harness swap. I looked into this on my '98.

Best option to keep 'stock' Subaru ECU is a WRX harness swap from an '02-'05. Then you'd have COBB AP or Open Source access to pretty much tune whatever you throw under the hood.

[PhyrraM]

Using a standalone opens up your choice of components the most. EJ20K heads and an EJ20G intake manifold is a common choice for a standalone as many believe the "G" manifold flows better than later manifolds.

Compare your Forester ECU pinouts to a '97ish EJ20K ECU. They might be closer than folks think. I believe both are 3 plug. Then again, maybe not.....

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

[swan3609]

It should be noted, I am not dropping this into my current Fozz. I want to keep mine for a reliable DD. I am planning on buying a not running Fozz.. 00-01 preferably.

Once again, I obviously have lots of research to do, but you have all been very helpful and given me some direction.

[cj91legss]

For what it's worth to help guide you in a decision. I paid 25 bucks for my 02-03 wrx ecu and 300 for the harness. They're getting cheaper by the year as well. Check out my build in the build journals section.

Open source is the way to go if you can't afford the 1700 dollar hydra or the 1900 dollar link. Maybe the prices on those have gone down? I don't know, but when I was exploring engine swap ideas almost 2 years ago that's what the prices were then.

[Alphius]

I bought a parts car '02 WRX for $1,800 and pulled the harness and ECU. I ended up selling the parts i didn't use off of that car for more than $1,800 so my engine management was free. I built an EJ22/EJ205 hybrid and swapped it into my '99 Legacy GT sedan. Swaps are getting a lot cheaper nowadays than most people think, if you can do your own work.

I highly recommend the 02-03 WRX ECU. With the CarBerry ROM you can have tons of features normally reserved for standalone ECUs. Speed Density tuning, antilag, no lift shift, spark cut rev limit, etc. The guy who made the ROM is working on more features still such as alcohol injection control, flex fuel capability and more.

[susiemk]

but the one thing I definitely recommend is making sure you have local tuning support for the engine management you choose, regardless of what it is.

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=47942

+10000


And if you're boosting your Foz, here's my '98 Build.

BTW, there is nothing for the '98 Fozzie's stock ECU. Piggyback or Standalone only. I'm not sure about the '99+, but don't think there were any stock ECU options 'til around '04, and that was for the XT model.

Td

Had fun reading your SF build - just built something similar this winter/spring - I do not want to run a hoodscoop either.