EJ22 block and heads with EG33 pistons

[TurnNburn]

So I have been on this site for many years and stumbled across this thread yesterday and couldn't believe I had never heard of doing this before.

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=53168

The thread gets kinda convoluted about engine management at the end but the first half is full of good info. My main question is. If this is really as awesome as it sounds, why are there not dozens of EG33 pistons in EJ22's.

When I rebuilt my engine I totally would have swapped pistons. They are cheap and require no more work to put in then a normal rebuild since you probably have the stock pistons out anyway. As an open light car I want to stay NA. But if I could have gotten a high compression engine for $150 pistons... even if was only 40WHP gain I still would have done it.

My second question is, having never run a high compression engine, how high can the ratio go before needing engine management? There are a few ratio numbers thrown around but a 2.2 with 2.2 heads and 33 pistons would yield 11.2. I don't remember off the top of my head but someone in that thread said you could do the swap, and the stock ECU would run it just fine. Obvioiusly a stand alone and a tune would be better, but would it be possible?



I have a donor 2.2 in the garage waiting for a rebuild and I am likely to try this if you guys give the thumbs up. I would also like to stay away from doing a 2.5 head swap for reliability, but... I do have a set at home

Thanks in advance,
Blake

[ride_child]

that sounds extemely interesting for a possible really fun dd. ive been trying to stay away form a turbo dd for gas mileage, i wonder how a setup like this would compare to a lightly modded 22t

[TurnNburn]

I have seen really high (12.5:1) compression 2.5s make 200WHP with "minor'' fuel mods (wrx injectors and a walbro) and a tune. Honestly, if I made 150ish HP without the mods and a tune I would be extremely happy. As I think a lot of people on this forum would be.

But that's why I cant believe I haven't scene or heard of this being done

[mike-tracy]

Its because the 165HP ej25d exists. More HP and no premium fuel requirement

[Alphius]

Mike is right. EG33 pistons in an EJ22 will not significantly increase power. You might make 150hp instead of 135, but at a cost of premium fuel. Like Mike said, a good EJ25D will make 165hp and run on regular fuel.

Even a stock EJ22T will make 160hp with over 180lbft of torque at very low RPM and is a very simple swap.

A high CR EJ22 would be inferior to both of the previous options. It is kind of cool that you can do it, but ultimately pretty academic.

[TurnNburn]

thanks for the quick responses guys! I wasn't sure anyone would chime in

Well when you say it like that then I see why no one has done it. I just get excited when I see something new and different and I tend not to pay attention to logic.

[mike-tracy]

No worries - although an easier option to swapping in a full ej25d would be a Frankenstein. Any n.a. 2.5 block and reuse your heads, manifold, everything. Instant fun torque!

[PhyrraM]

If I were to do something along these lines, I might do a high compression EJ22 with worked over EJ20K heads and nice cams.

I bet you could come close to the S2000's 230HP with the right parts and tuning. But it likely wouldn't be using EG33 pistons or be cheap.

[mike-tracy]

Well if you're gonna spend some money, why not an ez30R with a standalone that supports it? I'd love one of those in an older car with some sort of tuned exhaust.

I drove a buddy's 6mt SVX with a Stebro exhaust and that sound still haunts me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ty4_lcmrtA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pScPkGJlRSY

[86BRATMAN]

I have built the ej22 shortblock but eg33 pistons and 97-99 25d heads. I used ej22t head gaskets to keep my compression right at 10:1. And if I had to do it over again I wouldn't bother, the motor doesn't have the low end torque of a 25d but it really comes to life in the upper rpm. The car this motor is in now is an automatic and I don't run it hard, I get consistently around 30mpg and can run regular unleaded. The car I originally built the motor for now has a turbo swap and is a completely different animal.

I wanted to build the motor just because I hadn't seen it done, in the long run I really wasn't impressed by its output. I'm sure there is more that I could have gotten out of it with thinner head gaskets and a piggyback that could do timing increase but that would have defeated the original purpose. It's a smooth running, decent performing, alternative to the head gasket eating ej25d that gets better fuel economy without sacrificing a shred of reliability.

[TurnNburn]

Thanks for the definite answer bratman. I guess that's the end of it then.

[MConte05]

Well guys, the reason we don't really consider turbos or anything over 2.7L is that he's probably thinking rally motors. To stay within certain classes have to be under a certain turbo displacement or no turbos.

[mike-tracy]

ER27 ftw!

[Alphius]

Without considering turbos or anything over 2.7L, the best power bet is a DOHC 2.5. Mike and I both suggested that as the simplest and easiest way to make some more power N/A.

[MConte05]

You know, I've driven a supposed "built" 2.5 behind a 4.44 trans, and it honestly felt like my 2.2NA with Delta HP cams, a decent exhaust and a large gorilla intake was honestly more peppy, quicker to rev, and felt just as fast without the headache of a weak motor (2.5 are notorious for not handling rally abuse).

I'm kind of curious what some good heads on a 2.2NA block with decent cams would do. EJ20G heads maybe? Who knows. I'm just a big fan of using a 2.2 lower end. Free revving is extremely nice for racing.

[Alphius]

Yeah, I'm on your side. The EJ22 is a far superior engine. It feels to me like the EJ series was just never meant to be punched out to 2.5L, and it suffers in reliability as a result. It's just not worth spending a bunch of money building up an EJ22. The power curve with cheap cams (or even stock cams) in the SOHC heads is very torquey compared to the EJ25. The EJ25 will make more ultimate power at the very real cost of reliability.

The problem with a DOHC EJ22 is that you lose a lot of the bottom end torque that makes that engine so good, while at the same time you don't have the displacement to make the 165hp the 25D does up top.

If I was a beginning rally driver, I would build the most reliable car possible with an EJ22 and call it good. Honestly, becoming a better driver will improve times more than a piddly extra 30hp anyway, and I'd want the most reliable and least changes possible to focus on improving what really matters.

As an example of how much I like the EJ22, I have an N/A EJ22 shortblock between the EJ205 heads on my daily at 18-19psi. I also have an EJ257 shortblock that I'm selling instead of putting in my car because... The EJ22 is just too dang good and honestly probably much more reliable.

[MConte05]

Thats what I tell anyone getting into rally. 2.2NA with cheap cams and a good intake. It did me well enough to win regional rallies outright. Then jumped to a turbo 2.2T with its whopping 160hp. Also won more rallies. Now have an EJ20G with a twinscroll turbo that I hope is putting down around 250whp (34mm restrictor ruins the party). Big jump now.

[Legacy777]

Well if you're gonna spend some money, why not an ez30R with a standalone that supports it? I'd love one of those in an older car with some sort of tuned exhaust.

I drove a buddy's 6mt SVX with a Stebro exhaust and that sound still haunts me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ty4_lcmrtA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pScPkGJlRSY

Mike,

That SVX sounds great! Is he running the EG33 or the EZ30?

I'm assuming he's running true dual exhaust from each head?