91 EJ22 n/a STILL not starting

[lindstromjd]

I can't figure this out. The engine starts up with a shot of starting fluid (most of the time, sometimes it just dies right back out again), but WILL NOT start on it's own. I don't get it?!?! I've replaced the tps, and that didn't fix anything. I replaced the MAF, and when I did that, all the CEL's went away. But it still just won't start. What could be the culprit here?

[Jessekrs123]

If it starts up with starting fluid, but not on it's own then you are probably not getting any fuel. Can you hear the fuel pump prime when you turn the key to 'on'?

[lindstromjd]

I thought of that, too, and I can hear a really faint "hum/buzz" noise (that's the best I can describe it) that I assumed was the fuel pump, but it only sounds for about 1 second. It does it every time I cycle the key from off to on though. But if I have my buddy turn the key on and I sit back and try to listen to the pump from the cargo area, I hear nothing. I know the pump is good (because I took it out of my parts car that ran perfectly fine), but could it be the pump relay? I don't even know which relay it is. I looked around and it's supposed to be under the dash next to the ECM, but there's too many relays and other things up there for me to make anything out. Unless someone had a good picture of exactly what I should be looking for...

[kimokalihi]

Yeah that definitely sounds like a bad pump. Same problem with one of my legacys a while back after it sat for 2 years. Replaced the pump and it started right up.

[lindstromjd]

I wish that were the case. But I took my pump from my 91 turbo legacy and swapped it in, and still haven't fixed anything. I know for certain that the "new" pump in it is good, because my turbo legacy never had a single problem with running. I'm thinking it's a wiring or sensor issue.

[kimokalihi]

Possibly temp sensor. It's cheap I think and it causes problems with fuel.

[lindstromjd]

The coolant temp sensor in the intake, passenger side, kind of hard to get to? Brand new.

[kimokalihi]

I can't remember how difficult it is to get to. I think it's on the back of the coolant crossover pipe under the intake manifold on NA cars and on the front of the crossover pipe on turbo engines. You would have to remove the alternator to get at the sensor on a turbo engine. I'm not sure what it takes to replace it on an NA car if it's in the back.

[lindstromjd]

Yeah, my coolant sensor is brand new. It was suggested to replace it when I was trying to figure out why it's not starting earlier.

This thing is driving me nuts. I'm seriously just going to swap the engine with my EJ22T, but I still need this engine to run for a different project of mine.

[Legacy777]

So when you do get it to start, it doesn't stay running?

[kimokalihi]

My car before it sat for two years would have to have throttle to get it to start and you had to either begin driving it right away or keep your foot on the pedal to keep it from dieing. Once it was in open loop then it was ok. After two years of sitting in a field it wouldn't start at all. Replaced the pump and voila, ran like a champ!

[lindstromjd]

So when you do get it to start, it doesn't stay running?

So far, I've gotten it to stay running after I replaced the MAF. It wouldn't stay running before once it warmed up, but I think it's past that now. I'll have to start it back up again and let it run until it warms up and see what happens. Last time I had it running though, it did run for about 10 minutes before I turned it off to see if I could start it again.

[Jessekrs123]

If it is the fuel pump relay, it is a PITA to get to, just like the ignition and blower motor relays. It is located behind the ECU near the fender wall and is green. When my blower motor relay was going out, my heat was intermittent, so maybe if your fuel pump relay is going out, that could cause intermittent problems also.

[lindstromjd]

I'm going to "hotwire" the fuel pump today and see if that fixes anything. Hook it straight up to a battery and see if it starts working. If it does, that will rule out some things. I'm also going to check the fuel pressure regulator.

[lindstromjd]

OK, so I figured part of the problem out. The fuel pump is not turning on with the ignition. I wired it up to a battery today, and it came right on. I went to start the car, and WHAM!! It started right up. Blew a bunch of white smoke though (probably from too much fuel since the pump was running at full blast).

So I figured some of it out. Now to see WHY the pump isn't coming on. Fuel pump relay possibly? I'll have to go get a new one to try it out.

[Legacy777]

I'd start with the fuel pump relay. Also, since the ECU controls the fuel pump relay, you should probably check to make sure the ECU is signalling for the fuel pump to come on.

If you connect the green diagnostic connectors, all the relays will cycle when the key is in the ON position. This will allow you test whether the fuel pump relay works. If it does work, then the ECU may not be sending a signal to the fuel pump relay to engage, and this could be caused by the starter signal not working.

[lindstromjd]

Got it!!!!!

It was the fuel pump relay. I did some checking with the connector under the back seat, thinking maybe it was bad. So I hooked up a multi-meter to it and turned the key to 'on' and it read about 3 volts. So then I swapped out the relay and did it again and it read 12 volts. It was a little tricky getting the reading though cuz it only shows up for about 2 seconds (for the prime) and then goes back to nothing.

So now it's blowing a bunch of white smoke. Could I have screwed up a head gasket from using the starting fluid?? Or is it just excess fuel from the fuel pump? The pump that's in the car right now is out of my Turbo legacy. Would that make a difference? I thought the return line would take care of any excess fuel in the system...

[kimokalihi]

Excess fuel shouldn't burn white. How long have you run it for now?

[lindstromjd]

Well, at first when it started up, it was blowing only a very little amount of smoke, to the point where I wasn't concerned at all, because after about 3 inches out of the exhaust pipe it was gone. I let it run for about 10 minutes, and it was blowing a LOT of smoke by then. The kind you'd see on a very cold day while the engine was trying to warm up style. Big cloud. And it got worse when I stepped on the gas to open the throttle. The temp was right where it was supposed to be, not overheating or anything, but I did notice that the engine wasn't idling as smooth as I remember my turbo car idling. A little more vibration was definitely noticeable.

[Legacy777]

The starting fluid possibly loosened built up oil in the manifold and the engine is burning it off. I'd suggest taking the car out for a short drive and see if it continues or not.

Is the smoke white or bluish? Does it smell?

Check your oil & coolant levels before going out, and keep an eye on things while you're driving.

[lindstromjd]

The exhaust smoke reeks of vaporized fuel. I ran the diagnostics again, and came back with a code 14, injector inoperative. Makes perfect sense to me there. I think I might have messed one of them up when I removed the fuel rail to swap out the fuel pressure regulator. I have some "new" ones coming in, so that should fix that problem.

[lindstromjd]

Well, the "new" injectors didn't fix anything. These are pink top, and the ones that I took off were grey top. It still starts up fine, but as soon as it does, it's still blowing a bunch of white, fuel-smelling smoke. I didn't change out any of the o-rings though; could that be a culprit? I also noticed that there's a very small fuel leak in the hard lines going to the fuel rails. I know I'll need new o-rings for those. Any other suggestions?

[Legacy777]

If you're using the pink turbo injectors on the non-turbo motor, that's likely not going to work out too well. You need to put back in the same type of injectors you removed.

Is your 91 manual or auto? There's different injectors for each motor due to each having a different engine management brand

[lindstromjd]

I didn't know that the pink ones were turbo injectors. I did notice that the injectors were different than the ones I took out of my n/a though. My subi is an automatic.

[Legacy777]

Do your old injectors look like this?

http://main.experiencetherave.com/subar ... P_2521.JPG
http://main.experiencetherave.com/subar ... P_2522.JPG

You really need to try and find a set of injectors from a 90-91 non-turbo AT equipped legacy.