Torque Converter for 4.444 swap into EJ22T

[RoughDiamond]

Like the title, the death of my 200k mile 3.900 has quickly necessitated the need to finish the 4.444 swap. However, I'm in the dark about which torque converter to use. The turbo one has the high stall anyway and the larger bolt circle, but will the new gear ratio call for a different stall?

The converter will be changed anyway due to high mileage, but stock or otherwise?

FYI, motor is stock, wheel/tires are stock. May see light power increase in the future, but near stock power/torque curve. Thanks!

[Legacy777]

You may want to ask a trans shop. I would think the high stall would be beneficial, but honestly would recommend getting some feedback from someone with a little more experience with automatic transmissions.

[smagg26]

i've been told that you need to match a converter to the cam, i don't know how much truth there is to that just my 2 cents

[RoughDiamond]

EDIT: This info applies to Phase I (TZ/TA101/102) trans only. Phase II (T1Z, T2A, ect) are a different creature.

Doing some research (and not finding any solid info on flexplate/bolt circle info for the early 4EAT), the SS Converter had an 11.3" bolt circle where the N/A Legacies (and 1.8, 2.2, 2.0 Impreza) had 11". Same .630" pilot and 22 spline and same 10.5" diameter making them impossible to distinguish aside from the bolt circle difference. The early ones also had 1" mounting pads.

So, if swapping to a non-turbo-Legacy torque converter, a flexplate change is required.

The 96-98 Legacy GT/LSi/Outback (with the 4.444) had the high stall TC and the 11.75" bolt circle. Has blue paint patch on trans side of the TC face. Also has 2" wide mounting pads.

FSM is suggesting a stall speed of ~3K RPM, but I can't find OE specs for the SS stock stall speed, but the Transtar listings but say "high stall".

NOTE: The SVX TC shares the same specs has "new gen" TC (11.75" bolt circle), but has a 1" tall pilot (still .630" diamter) and a low stall. Might be an interesting usage for someone with a frankenmotor build...

[bcmaxx]

EDIT: This info applies to Phase I (TZ/TA101/102) trans only. Phase II (T1Z, T2A, ect) are a different creature.

Doing some research (and not finding any solid info on flexplate/bolt circle info for the early 4EAT), the SS Converter had an 11.3" bolt circle where the N/A Legacies (and 1.8, 2.2, 2.0 Impreza) had 11". Same .630" pilot and 22 spline and same 10.5" diameter making them impossible to distinguish aside from the bolt circle difference. The early ones also had 1" mounting pads.

So, if swapping to a non-turbo-Legacy torque converter, a flexplate change is required.

The 96-98 Legacy GT/LSi/Outback (with the 4.444) had the high stall TC and the 11.75" bolt circle. Has blue paint patch on trans side of the TC face. Also has 2" wide mounting pads.

FSM is suggesting a stall speed of ~3K RPM, but I can't find OE specs for the SS stock stall speed, but the Transtar listings but say "high stall".

NOTE: The SVX TC shares the same specs has "new gen" TC (11.75" bolt circle), but has a 1" tall pilot (still .630" diamter) and a low stall. Might be an interesting usage for someone with a frankenmotor build...

I just installed a 4.44 4eat out of a 97 outback. Used flexplate to match. Runs and drives great. I installed a shift kit to improve pressure and shift

[wtdash]

I installed a shift kit to improve pressure and shift

Please post the brand/part #.

Thanks

[Legacy777]

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=53887

You can also check out their website.

http://www.transgo.com/

[bcmaxx]

RE4R01A , It firmed up all shifts, nice and quick, but 2 to 3rd could still be better, adjusted band as well.

[Legacy777]

yeah the 2-3 shift and a little bit the 3-4 shift always was a little bit blah even after the shift kit. It really firmed up the 1-2 shift.

[bcmaxx]

yeah the 2-3 shift and a little bit the 3-4 shift always was a little bit blah even after the shift kit. It really firmed up the 1-2 shift.

1-2 shift and 3-4th shift will spill the coffee on me from my cup in the cupholder haha.

[RoughDiamond]

UPDATE: FINALLY, after MUCH headache and pain, the trans and diff swapped. However, all is not well.

Was able to source a MY97 Outback trans (eventually) and installed with new seals, checked the duty C for resistance, MPT clutch seemed free, new filter, adjusted the band to 97 specs. Trans has ~160K, but magnet was clean. Installed 4.444 R160 LSD (from V3/4 STi).

After install, immediately threw code 24 (duty C) and MASSIVE torque bind. Forward and back. But with car off and rear-end up, no binding. Threw-in FWD fuse, no change. Let sit for a few hours, started, no POWER light flash and no TB. If I kick it into POWER mode, then restart, TB seems to disappear. But normal start-up and driving, it's there.

Before, I was throwing an intermittent code 24, but never a torque bind scenario EXCEPT when it was sub 40F.

At this point, I'm thinking it's a dying TCU. USMB seems to have this problem commonly, especially with the 90-94 Legacies. But I also see a different Duty C solenoid for the before/after MY95. Did they reverse the polarity or change the solenoid at some point so that it operates differently? And is a TCU swap from a different Turbo car possible (I know the turbo and Outbacks ran resistor-less TCU/valve bodies for higher line pressures)?

Ideas?

[bcmaxx]

UPDATE: FINALLY, after MUCH headache and pain, the trans and diff swapped. However, all is not well.

Was able to source a MY97 Outback trans (eventually) and installed with new seals, checked the duty C for resistance, MPT clutch seemed free, new filter, adjusted the band to 97 specs. Trans has ~160K, but magnet was clean. Installed 4.444 R160 LSD (from V3/4 STi).

After install, immediately threw code 24 (duty C) and MASSIVE torque bind. Forward and back. But with car off and rear-end up, no binding. Threw-in FWD fuse, no change. Let sit for a few hours, started, no POWER light flash and no TB. If I kick it into POWER mode, then restart, TB seems to disappear. But normal start-up and driving, it's there.

Before, I was throwing an intermittent code 24, but never a torque bind scenario EXCEPT when it was sub 40F.

At this point, I'm thinking it's a dying TCU. USMB seems to have this problem commonly, especially with the 90-94 Legacies. But I also see a different Duty C solenoid for the before/after MY95. Did they reverse the polarity or change the solenoid at some point so that it operates differently? And is a TCU swap from a different Turbo car possible (I know the turbo and Outbacks ran resistor-less TCU/valve bodies for higher line pressures)?

Ideas?

how did you adjust the brake band? mine is out of adjustment, have braking effect in 1st and revers when cold, long delay now 2 to 3 . do an ecu reset its good for a few hundred km's. was almost thinking of pulling a 97 legacy tcu and see if it plugs in.

[RoughDiamond]

I think the 97 TCU has more interfaces with the ECU than the non-OBDII ones, but I'm not sure. And on the driver's side, there is a small stud with lock-nut that allows for adjustment of the brake band. There's a short procedure on in the FSM, but it is NOT easy to get to, in the car.

[RoughDiamond]

Well, I think its a TCU on the way out. 2 days of no code 24, then after overnight in the garage, code 24 on start-up. Turn off, cycle key 3 times, restart, no code. No TB. Still get a nasty drag or braking effect in first, hard shift into second but then takes off. Will quick-shift into third and slide into forth. TCC DOES engage and disengage when braking or moderate acceleration. Just feels like I'm binding in first, but WAY smoother in second. Also, slight vibration in 3rd or 4th. RPMs don't skyrocket like worn clutches, but it's almost like a dead-spot. Shifts around 3200 RPM, bang into second, and off like a bat out of hell (with same pedal pressure).

After more reading about the operation of the brake band, I believe it's adjusted too tight. I believe it's dragging in 1st and 3rd (when it should not be applied). Granted, the MY97 FSM does not list this sensation as a symptom of a maladjusted brake band, the MY92 FSM DOES. Under "poor accel (from stand still)", possible cause is brake band, control unit, low drum or valve body.

Should've just 5MT swapped... but I'm off to adjust the band and will report back later.

[RoughDiamond]

UPDATE: Adjusted the brake band, seemed to help the shifting a touch, but it wasn't far off.

I think I've found why I'm "dragging" in 1st gear. If I take off slowly, near crawl, the trans and car seem to move forward VERY easily. However, once I get above ~10 mph, it's like traction control kicks in. Engine power is halved and I'm not thrown backward into the seat when I punch it. This is then DIRECTLY related to the TB if I try to turn sharply (even with or without the intermittent duty C code and occasional non-TB).

In short, I think AWD is kicking in on mid-hard accel from a standstill and is causing the "occurs most of the time" dragging.

However, I want to blame a dying duty C or TCU, but I can't help but think that the new gear ratio is causing the TCU to see a speed difference between VSS1 and VSS2 (even though there is no wheel speed difference) and is locking the duty C to compensate.

I need an early TCU expert to chime in and see if that's how it works. If the TCU "backwards" calculates front shaft speed from the speedo head speed (where VSS2 is) and compares is directly to rear shaft speed (VSS1) instead of doing rev/sec to rev/sec.

[smagg26]

You could always unplug some of the abs wires which holds have the computer ignore the wheel speed and that should let you know if it's traction control or not.