Turbo legacy running like POO ... Now with a Happy Ending!

[Bosco]

Where do I even start?
On the way home tonight from a friends house, my 92 turbo sedan started acting up in a strange way.

The "power" light kept coming on intermittently and the RPMs were jumping all over the place. The wheels didn't always seem to respond to the engine revving either. sometimes it would spike up to 4000 or more from just over 2000 but the car didn't lurch forwards or anything. (although it would only spike like that for a fraction of a second and then drop back down).
Also, the RPMs seemed to only jump up. it never dropped down low or acted like it was gonna stall. Seemed like the turbo was kicking in and out all over the place and at various different RPMs.
I also noticed the engine sounded a little loud. especially when decellerating. the car was not happy at all. I questioned wether we would make it home a couple times.

This was bad and getting worse all the way home. all the symptoms seemed random.... but very persistant... (maybe 15 to 20 minute drive) by the end of the drive, the check engine light popped on. I checked the codes and got 3 codes. only one of which is new. The other two were old ones (12, 33) that I had never cleared.
The new code was a 42, which is "Abnormal voltage input entered from idle switch" Umm..... what does that mean?
Sorry if this post makes no sense. It is late, and I am very tired. I just wanted to get this question out there as soon as I could.
-Bosco-

[Tleg93]

Could it be the IAC valve?

[Legacy777]

you can read the trans computer codes with these instructions.

http://www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/trans.html

[vrg3]

It sounds to me like there's a good chance the engine is fine and this is all stuff happening in the transmission... let us know what happens with the TCU codes.

[Bosco]

UGH....
Well, I dunno what to think.

This morning I drove around the block to jump a friend's car for her.

When I backed out of the drive, as soon as I put it in drive and hit the gas, the "power" light popped on again... it acted a little strange for about 1 block. the Rpm's weren't going crazy like last night, but the power light kept jumping on and off....

AAAAaaanyway, I jumped my friend's car, and drove back home.. the car acted perfectly normal on the drive home. I even hit the gas (gently) once or twice and kicked in the turbo. The light stayed off.

So I ran the tranny trouble codes...
I did the procedure for "existing problems" and the power light just kept blinking indefinitely. I counted over 200 blinks and gave up counting.

Then I ran the one for "previous problems" and got codes 32 and 33. Both of which I think are old codes. They are both Vehicle speed sensors.
I had the speedo disconnected for a day or 2 a while back...I believe that is also why I found the VSS
code popped up in my CELs.

SO... there aren't many things I dislike more than car troubles that are bad one day and invisbile the next with no signs left behind....
Now, my test drive was only around a couple blocks, so it may happen again...

MAYBE I should mention that I have what I would consider a medium level of torque binding going on in this vehicle. I don't think it would be related, but just throwing it out there.

I really do appreciate the fact that you all are willing to take the time to try and help. Thanks folks............-Bosco-

[Legacy777]

Clear the codes for the TCU & ECU. TCU codes can be cleared by pulling the EGI/TCU fuse at the driver's kick panel. Leave it out for like 30 minutes.

Drive the car up to normal operating temp....this is also the case for the trans. So 5 miles or more.

If you're getting torque bind, you may want to put a fuse in the FWD fuse holder in the engine bay for diagnosis to see if it goes away.

If you have a bad VSS.....or possibly lose connection somewhere.....it would explain your problems.

[Bosco]

I guess I'm having trouble doing a seemingly simple task.

I disconnected the negative battery cable for almost a full hour...

I reconnected it and followed These Instructions quite fully... let it idle without touching the pedal for 16 minutes, and then shut it off...

The CELs are still there.. 12, 33, and 42....

But the Power light codes seem to be cleared... both test methods made the power light just blink repeatedly and indefinitely. I couted over 200 blinks each time (appx 1/4 second intervals).

SO... what did I do wrong??? I don't get why the CEL codes didn't clear.

I couldn't locate the ECU/TCU fuse.... Maybe I'm blind... is it labeled on the black plastic fusebox cover?

[Bosco]

I test drove it around a couple blocks after clearing the tranny codes. It acted up quite strongly again, and almost immediately this time too... Power light blinking... RPMs spiking all over the place, and other such nonsense......

Checked the tranny codes when I got back and both were still clear.
Checked the CEL codes and got the same ones that I could not get rid of....

What is that "Idle switch" code supposed to mean anyway? (42 on the CEL codes)

Thanks again for any help.

[Legacy777]

It's fuse # 14

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... er/118.jpg
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... er/119.jpg

If you went through the clearing process and they still showed up.......you either didn't use up all the juice in the backup battery........or the problems still remain.

Idle switch is in the TPS......it tells the ECU when the car is at idle for the throttle.

You can follow these directions on how to set/adjust the tps/idle switch
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... sting3.jpg

This will give you an idea of what the TPS looks like inside
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... ns/TPS.jpg

[Bosco]

Thanks for all the links..

Well, I pulled the #14 fuse for about 8 1/2 hours, put it back, let it idle for 15 minutes, shut it off, checked the CEL codes... all 3 still there

I drove the car today for about 15 miles with no incident beyond the power light popping on occasionally.. the rpms stayed normal and the car drove fine.....
I made an appointment with the local stealership to have it assessed. I have a feeling they won't be able to reproduce the problem on thier comprooters, but I really don't know what else to do.

Did I mention I friggin' HATE problems that show up and disappear.... and show up.....
and disappear...... And show up....

[Legacy777]

are you handy enough to test the tps yourself?

What you might try doing is clearing the codes, and then check the codes right away before starting the car and see if anything's there? If not.....you know you cleared them, and you've got problems with the signal coming from the sensors. If the codes are still there.....they may not be clearing, and/or there may be other issues, possibly ecu.

[Legacy777]

also....have you tried doing the "active" diagnostic by just plugging the green connectors in?

[legacy92ej22t]

Well, I pulled the #14 fuse for about 8 1/2 hours, put it back, let it idle for 15 minutes, shut it off, checked the CEL codes... all 3 still there

I've pulled mine for 72 hours before and it didn't erase the codes. They're probably not clearing. Do the D-mode check and that will tell you what is currently failing, not just what's stored in memory.

Did I mention I friggin' HATE problems that show up and disappear.... and show up.....
and disappear...... And show up....

I hear ya there, have a few of those myself.

[Bosco]

Well, Wether I have the ability to check the TPS and the Active diagnostics is null and void now... I really don't have the time to try to fix it myself. Not being able to clear the codes is frustrating enough right now. I just hope the dealership doesn't bend me over TOO badly.
Again, I appreciate the help and info. If I wasn't so behind at work, I'd probably take the time to look in to it a little closer.

I'll surely update this thread whenever the problem is solved so others might use it for future refrence.

[Bosco]

UGH! OKay, The Dealer told me this:

They checked the codes & got the same three that I did (12,33,42) and said it's #33 causing the problems...
...Need a whole new dash cluster...
...costs over $1000 to order. <<<Insert projectile vomiting emoticon here>>>
And he also said it MUST be from a 92 Turbo automatic.... Not 93 or 94... (they have different part #s at least)

I asked a couple times if he was Pretty sure that it was the cluster, and he said he was not "pretty sure" but he was "positive".

SO..... I'll have to do some thinking on this one... for now, i'm bringing it home.

Um... P.S.: Help!

[mTk]

I have some extra clusters. I don' think there's really any difference between the model years except auto/manual. All of mine are auto n/a. I'm using the n/a auto cluster on my 93 turbo 5mt currently.

MK

[Bosco]

Really??? <<wetting pants>>>

I would LOVE some confrimation from others that such a thing would work!
IF I could use a 93 N/A cluster I know I can get a few locally probably really cheap.

What Year is the Cluster in your '93?

[Brat4by4]

Did the dealer reset the codes for you? How much did they rape you for, or was it a decent price?

If you need any help swapping the clusters, let me know. I need to rip into my dash soon to replace bulbs and whatnot, also. It will be good experience before I do mine.

And we can screw your stuff up and not mine!! (:

[Legacy777]

BS.....did they tell you how they tested it?

THis is what you do.....take the speedo cable out from the tranny.......put it in a drill.....try forward and reverse and see if the speedo moves.......do this with keys in the ON position.

If it does....screw the dealer.....

Next if that works.....it's probably the speedo cable base piece I mentioned in another thread
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... lebase.jpg

[Bosco]

Well, The price was OKay... 41$ for the test....(only charged for 1/2 hour.)

The guy started teling me what codes came up, and I finished his sentence for him... I knew exactly what codes they were... I told them when I first spoke of it to them...

Unfortunately, I'm on board with Legacy777's opinion. I think they just checked the codes, and made an assumption.

He said some BS like the Other 2 codes (12 and 42...Idle switch and Starter) were being caused by the bad VSS. I told him of a specific time that I thought the starter code got in to the system, and he still told me I needed a new cluster.

[The specific time being once when my wife accidentally hit the starter twice in a row in a strange manner, and it kinda "Hiccupped". The "irregular voltage reported from starter" code came up right after that, and has never left (because I can't clear them) but the starter has been just fine since then.]

As for the speedo test, While plugged in to the tranny, the speedo works. It moves up and down just fine really smooth.. even when my problem is occurring, the tach jumps all over, but the speedo stays smooth.
Is the drill test gonna get me any more info than that?

IS there a SURE fire way to clear those stubborn codes out?

What about that Idle switch thing... Maybe that is really a problem?


Brat4x4, I'm down if you want to come help/watch, but it is actually not too hard. You can certainly learn how NOT to do things by watching me
I had to pull my cluster out to put the speedo cable back on when I accidentally pulled it out a while back... (that Is when I picked up the VSS codes In my opinion) I told the dealer about that too....

Ugh I'm really starting to get a crappy feeling about this...
Sorry for SO MANY Questions...I know I have rambled about this a bit now... I just hope I have all the relative info in here..

I'm definitely willing to TRY a used guage cluster if I can really use one from a N/A. Anyone else have experience in that?


Well, if ANYONE has ANY more thaughts on this subject, i would LOVE to hear them....
Maybe I just need to go buy an 05 GT wagon.

[THAWA]

I know an absolutely sure fire way to clear the codes, buy a new ecu

[Legacy777]

If you pull the EGI/TCU.......and do it for 30 min.......plug it back in. Then check the codes.....but DO NOT start the car, just put the key in the ON position with the black connectors connected.

Do the codes still display?

If your speedo works now.....then I don't know how the VSS would be the issue.

You can try to adjust the idle switch with the fsm page I posted.

[THAWA]

doesnt the vss in the cluster relay info to the ecu? maybe that's what the tech is thinking

[Bosco]

Legacy777,
I pulled the fuse as directed for a little bit longer than 30 minutes, replaced it, didn't start the car, just hooked up the black clips and put the key in the run position.... Same 3 codes still in there.

THEN I tried the other method ( Connecing both green and black connectors, and driving it... etc.... It worked! I have finally cleared those damn codes! (thanks to your website)

That's ONE less thing pissing me off now!

Now to do the extended test drive and see if I can get it to screw up again, and give me some brand new codes.

[Bosco]

Drove it 40+ miles... It acted up for most of those miles....
Got one CEL code: 42. Idle switch "abnormal voltage input from idle switch"

So I can thank the dealer for trying to shaft me for over a grand, and not choosing to actually clear my codes before attempting diagnosis.

And now I get to look in to the TPS thingy... I really have very little (if any) knowledge on this subject. I'll have to look closer at the links Legacy777 gave me.

Anyone else have any tips or experiences with this one?