Info on my turbo engine build up

[Brat4by4]

Maybe be VRG3 can do a dump of the turbo ecu with the pin grounded and one without and compare them. or maybe the NA ecu since he can read it better. you know you wanna vr....

[Legacy777]

Maybe be VRG3 can do a dump of the turbo ecu with the pin grounded and one without and compare them. or maybe the NA ecu since he can read it better. you know you wanna vr....

That would actually be pretty cool to see if cali cars do things differently....

[vrg3]

I would be happy to try anything out for you guys, but this request doesn't actually make any sense.

The ECU dumps I've been playing with are dumps of the read-only-memory built into the ECU. Changing the values of inputs has absolutely no effect on them. I can even pull the ROM chip out of the ECU and read the complete dump directly off the chip outside the ECU.

Now... if I can ever wrap my head around all the code that I've disassembled from the dumps, then I could tell you for sure what the difference in behavior is. But that's hard to do. So give me time. :)

[vrg3]

Hmm... so I scoured through the disassembled code...

There do appear to be places where the ECU checks which jurisdiction it's in and uses different lookup tables depending on the answer. In at least one case on my ECU, both the California and Federal/Canada tables are identical. That is all I can say for the moment; I don't know what these lookup tables are for or anything like that yet.

[ciper]

I realized something today.

Lets say I spend 850 for a set of heads with aftermarket cams (someone PM'd me with a good deal)
Add 700$ to get it working for example intake, coolant/oil, electronics etc. 700 was a price that Nate from S-Squared and I guessed up from some very long discussions that Ill compress and post later.

Now thats 1850 and alot of custom stuff. I still like the idea of SOHC
BUT

What If I took the stock EJ22T heads and spent 1850 on them? They would obviously be 100% plug and play, no custom work needed. For 1800 dollars I could get some serious stuff done to them.

I hope you guys dont hate me for not being adventurios/unique. Already Im going to spend over 5000$ just to get a stock EJ22T installed in the car. Sure it will be better than a brand new EJ22T from the factory and ready lots of power later but! I wouldnt doubt the engine only makes 170Hp and 185 torque to start, not a very good performance for dollar upgrade.

It seems that my project is slowly morphing into building a rock solid EJ22 the build power on it.

If I do plan to go this route I now need help on deciding what to do with the EJ22T heads.

Are there any cams available, possibly from another SOHC subaru that would fit?

What head mofications would result in maximum reliability and performance for the money?

Your next question is probably going to be about my goals.
1. It has to be able to run on the stock engine/exhaust/engine management for a while
2. It has to pass a smog inspection (should be easy especially from what Ive seen on WRX)
3. Estimated power will be above 300.


About the engine, think of any part that would ever wear out and I have already replaced it with something equal to or better than factory. It will be completely torn down and reassembled from scratch.

[Legacy777]

Just stick with the stock heads, get them worked over, and get some custom cams.....that way you can take care of all your bases

[ciper]

All my base belong to me.

I know, but I didnt want to do that! Wasn't it in this thread that Larry said the same thing, that he went through all the same trouble except spent a good chunk of change on 2.5 heads before realizing they dont fit easy?

BTW thanks for adding the archived messages. Found this thread that should be cross linked.
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=7755
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=11624

[Legacy777]

Yup,

Larry went through all the same thing, and ended up sticking with the 2.2T heads.....that was what I was suggesting you do as well. You didn't want to stick with the 2.2T heads?

no prob.....that was one of threads I definitely wanted to get out there.

[Matt Monson]

This is definitely a route you can consider. Cobb's site shows side by side the flow differences of the stock EJ22-T heads and the SOHC EJ25's. If you were to re-work the EJ22's you would want to port the crap out of them. I spoke with the guys at Cobb about this when I first got my Legacy. They said don't bother! They tried it a few years ago and there are just to many things that you would want to change on that 14 year old head design. My thoughts are to go with a 4 year old design like the EJ25's or some EJ205 heads and work with what is required to make it work.

On the flipside, there are a number of guys who have done high power builds with the stock heads. The reality is if your cram enough air through a crappy flowing head like that you will still be able to make power. And 300 hp is not super high power. Sure, that is a lot of power, but it is a whole different realm than 400 or 450 hp....

p.s. Ciper, check PM, there may be more than just the heads available...

[raydadickrs]

after my tests this evening (see engine section).

Ej22t = sohc
ej20t = dohc

ej22t intake != ej20T intake

BUT

ej22t exaust == ej20t exaust (we can use Wrx exaust on our ej22t)

so, we could say
sohc intake != dohc intake
but
sohc exaust == dohc exaust

to be verified, but i hope this helps a little

so are you saying?!?!???

the ej22t will only accept sohc heads
the ej20t will only take doch heads?
the ej22t and ej20t intake manafolds aren't compatable
but the exhausts are?

im planning an ej22t shortblock w/my 98rs top end (heads, intake, exhaust, ecu w/piggyback, and whatever else needed) to try for 300+ whp
anyone know any setbacks to watchout for?

[Legacy777]

did you read the two links ciper posted that are in the archives?

I highly suggest you take a look at them. Larry has done a lot of work on the heads issue.

[ciper]

the ej22t will only accept sohc heads
the ej20t will only take doch heads?
the ej22t and ej20t intake manafolds aren't compatable
but the exhausts are?

im planning an ej22t shortblock w/my 98rs top end (heads, intake, exhaust, ecu w/piggyback, and whatever else needed) to try for 300+ whp
anyone know any setbacks to watchout for?

He is saying that any engine can take any heads with the right modifications to account for bore and such.

Any 2 port exhaust heads can take any other engines 2 port exhaust piping

The ej18 ej25 and ej20 seem to be mostly compatible when it comes to throttle body (some need modification but for the most part they fit). Ej22 and ej22t heads will only work with 2.2 throttle body

Other issues are the coolant piping that runs under the throttle body which I have heard is sometimes an issue (Depending on combination)

[ciper]

Just a quick update.

Since 2.2 rollers with solid roller lifters are hard to find it looks as if hydro rollers are the way to go. Ill end up getting all 16 new lifters from the dealer and O-rings.
Since I take good care of the car and run good oil the hydros should last along time, who knows how most of our cars where taken care of early in life.

Another interesting tidbit is regarding the STI crank in the 2.2t . It seems that the long stroke causes the piston to go lower that the oil squirters. Wether this is enterily bad and if it can be solved with custom pistons remains to be seen. Either way Ive decided to stay with stock configuration in the engine and just replace everything.

Ive also decided to go with gapless rings. A little more expensive but good gains for the money.

[Matt Monson]

I apologize if this was mentioned before, but what is your build timeframe?
I know you asked about mine, but I don't remember reading about yours. And thanks for the updates...

[morgie]

so are you saying?!?!???

the ej22t will only accept sohc heads
the ej20t will only take doch heads?
the ej22t and ej20t intake manafolds aren't compatable
but the exhausts are?

im planning an ej22t shortblock w/my 98rs top end (heads, intake, exhaust, ecu w/piggyback, and whatever else needed) to try for 300+ whp
anyone know any setbacks to watchout for?

I'm saying, like Ciper said, that the exaust manifold is the same on the SOHC ej22T and the DOHC Ej20T, but intake manifold is not the same. If you swap the heads, you have to swap the intake manifold too, but you can keep the old exaust manifold

As for my swap / build... i did a first "compatibility check" 2 days ago, and everything seems to be allright, except for the Intercooler Y-Pipe (but that's not a big issue).

Ej22T shortblock + WRX 96 intake manifold, heads (9:1cr is what i've read.. may not require piston swap to keep a good CR once on the 2.2l shortB.), td05, wrx 96 exaust manifold (But is exactly the same as on the ej22t)

[ciper]

Matt Monson: The plan keeps getting pushed back. When this project started I had planned to be driving the vehicle in its lowest power form by now.

The engine is already apart and I should have a full price of the machine shop work soon (head flow increase and rebuild).

Ive decided to go with gapless piston rings, from those who I have spoken with this makes a huge difference in turbo cars.

The bottom end of the engine should be done by the end of this month. The heads either this or the next month.
Assembly of the engine wont be far aftewards then I have to drive the receiving car up to Sacramento.

Everything will be installed as stock, including the stock sedan exhaust. One question I have is will the exhaust need an extension since it goes into a wagon?

After installed I will run it for a while to chase any bugs away then schedule an apointment to get the BAR sticker.

Once all the Smog/DMV stuff is completed I will install all of the instramentation.

The next step will most be either
1. Water intercooler installation
2a. engine back exhaust including turbo
2b. turbo back exhaust (headers and turbo later). I already have the parts chosen for the turbo back (in another thread) but Im not sure about the type of turbo I plan to use.

The list goes on but these are the near future milestones

[evolutionmovement]

Are there any negatives to gapless rings? I can't think of any other than cost, but maybe there was some durability or breaking-in issue I couldn't figure. I was thinking of going with them in mine.

Steve

[ciper]

More wear on the block compared to stock. That may sound bad but realize that the stock rings dont even cause noticable wear. My engine that wasnt taken very good care of still has the cross hatches in the cylinder wall!

[ciper]

Got a response from total seal on what to use. The person gave me his direct number so I passed it along to Nate and he is speaking with him for me.
From what I have read this has to be one of the best $ to performance modifications that can be made when inside the engine. It even supposedly helps emissions.

[ciper]

(dangit, typed a long responce and lost it to an error)
My motor is in block prep.
My heads will be picked up mid next week for machine work

2.33 Displ is again a possibility. Nate is prototyping the pistons needed for an STI crank (385$) with EJ20 rods and pistons (custom, correct C/R and pin location).

He forgot to tell me if I got hydro or screw type but rollers are a definate.

[0perose]

whatever happened to this?

looking at a 2.2t build for my xt6 over the winter

[mhrallyteam]

I'm saying, like Ciper said, that the exaust manifold is the same on the SOHC ej22T and the DOHC Ej20T

I have to differ, they are Slightly different. the cast manifold have a different angle on ej20T, I know this since i installed a new stainless up-pipe on my legacy, meant for a WRX. the bolt hole didn't fit by 1/2inch. We then compared my manifold with a wrx one, and noticed the slight angle difference. But if you use the whole manifold assy it should work fine, if you have an up-pipe with a flex.