Why all the vw hate?

[ciper]

Well I feel bad for him. Since its not your mom or anything I dont mind to tear into him.

He is a fool. To purchase such a vehicle shows lack of research. If I was his friend him Id punch him a couple times and yell at him for such a bad decision.

The background to my feeling comes from a hobby of mine. Often Ill get a vehicle (usually rent it) and dont feel bad about misusing it, pushing it beyond its limits and causing random chaos (isolated of course).

This lets me get an honest opinion on vehicles, and often I enjoy cars you would never guess I would (like a kia rio for example)

Ive now had three experiences with the new beetle. First two of which where NA so I had a preconcieved idea of how the turbo should feel. A combined time of about 10 days to do whatever I wish. None of them where convertable.

It would be easier for me to list all the good points than the bad. Convince your friend to cut his loss and move on before the cost of ownership increases and the value of the car drops too low.

If he still wants a cheap fast car, how about an upgrade to the Neon?

[Kelly]

OK.

[BAC5.2]

They have 2 original beetles. He got the car to replace a 1989 Jetta (that never had any problems, beater like no other).

He's had a few problems with the VW, but no more than my buddy has had with his Ford. Starter had a problem and that's all in the 40k that's on the car. I suppose that's more problems than my Legacy has had (mine's only been in the shop for routine maintainence).

Handling? Not to bad really. Some beef sway bars help the body roll. Suspension isn't the greatest design, but I've never seen him push it on a road that's not smooth. I've driven it, and it felt kinda plush and soft (overall, not just suspension), but somewhat solid (moreso than the Lexus SC300 I drove earlier in the day), and it's pretty quick (Faster than my Turbo, and about keeps up with my buddies 99 SHO).

He hasn't had any problems with the car to really speak of. Not that I've heard of anyway.

His other car is a 98 Eclipse GSX that is perpetually undergoing repair. Clutch is dead, and it's a wiring nightmare. I've only ridden in the DSM once, the rest of the time it's under the tarp waiting for some repair.

[entirelyturbo]

Since its not your mom or anything I dont mind to tear into him.

See? Ciper can be a very compassionate and thoughtful person...

I will say this: It's pretty hard to make any car handle the way a German does. Hanging with the VW fans that I do, I've seen them take some corners at speeds that I couldn't go on a straight road! With little suspension work, some grippy tires, stock engine, and a good driver, you can make a lowly VW Golf GTI compete with full-fledged race cars.

That is, if you can keep the rod bearings to maintain a clearance less than a quarter inch

[mTk]

Does this thread have the most posts on the bbs?

MK

[ciper]

Even the ergonomics the bettle is supposed to do so well are terrible. Im totally average build yet I hit my head over every bump when sitting in the back seats. The window controls have lag, which I cant understand. Mirror adjustments are on the door handle but the windo controls are down below, wth? No matter how you adjust the wheel it always is blocking part of the gauges. The center console sticks out so far and is so fat that an above average size has trouble with their legs fitting. The gas and brake pedals are way too close together. The center armrest/console wont go down when the parking brake is pulled. The dash is too long and curved so that anything you put on it is lost up front or slides into your lap.

I could go on if you wish. Honestly even a Cavalier is a better designed vehicle all around.

[BAC5.2]

I don't notice half of the things you posted in my buddies beetle.

The armrest goes down just fine with the parking brake up. His window's don't have any lag. His steering wheel doesn't block anything important. The gas, brake, and clutch are no closer together than the pedals in my turbo (and I have wide feet, I never have a problem shifting his car). And I have no problems sitting in the drivers or passengers seat (I'm 6'1" and 150lbs, so I guess i'm not an "above average" guy).

The only thing I do notice, is the back seat has a 5' 7" height limit. And the dash is 8 feet long and you can't put anything on it.

Other than that, it seems perfectly fine inside. And I don't ride in the back seat, so I don't care about them (It's no different than any other coupe on the market really. Try fitting in the back of an SC300, it's impossible if you aren't an amputee.

I understand some of the downfalls of VW's. But some of the things you posted are entirely subjective and possibly related to the few models you drove (and possibly the model year of said cars). His is an 02 (I think, I'm not sure), and I didn't have any trouble with half of the things you mentioned. But, unlike you, I don't drive cars looking to find problems with them. I notice glaring errors, and if I own the car, find the small things.

But, this is a foolish discussion. I don't have a Volkswagen, and I likely won't own any Volkswagen newer than 1989 (the Jetta 1 was awesome, I'm still looking for one as a beater).