Is this my clutch slipping?

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:07 pm

So just today I heard a noise I've only heard before in my girlfriend's 2000 honda civic LX 5spd. It's a squeal quite similar to tires burning out. It happens when I let the clutch out slowly and give it gas. As in, trying to make a nice smooth transition from 1st to 2nd without jerking forward too quickly.

Does this mean my clutch is going out? If so that is some BS! I put that brand new exedy clutch with a brand new flywheel in my metro back in december I think. Sometime last winter anyways. It's gotta have like 5-7K miles on it. How could it possibly be going out already?!

GRRRR!!!

I have a new exedy clutch ready to put in my girlfriend's car too and I'm gonna get a honda OEM flywheel for it too. Her car has made this noise when letting the clutch out for a long time now.

I don't think it's slipping bad though. It holds fine when giving it wide open throttle pulls in both cars. So why the squeal when letting the clutch out slower?

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:22 pm

Is the noise the only symptom? Because the actual symptom of a slipping clutch is a failure to transmit power from the engine to the transmission. If you're not experiencing that then your clutch isn't slipping.

Check your drivebelts maybe?

Also, you shouldn't be using the clutch to make a smooth transition between gears. That'll eat your clutch up (not in just 7000 miles though, unless you're being especially abusive). Aside from getting the car moving from a stop, clutch pedal operation should be more or less on-or-off. If your goal is smoother shifts, just double clutch and rev match.

SLODRIVE · Post by **SLODRIVE** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:27 pm

Judging from what you posted, your clutch isn't slipping at all. It sounds a lot like a bad clutch release bearing, possibly a dry pilot bearing. Did you replace all the bearings when you replaced your clutch?

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:13 pm

I replaced everything. Clutch release bearing and the little bearing in the flywheel. The flywheel and the clutch. I even cleaned the whole tranny housing out and put a little grease on the clutch fork pin which really loosened it up and made it move nice and smooth like new.

I'm pretty sure it's not the belts because they make a different noise. A whinier one.

It's also good to note that I have been using the engine to slow down in the last few months since installing this clutch. I never did that before because I thought it owuld just wear out the clutch by using it more often and I thought it might be harder on the engine and more wear on the tranny. But someone convinced me it's better for your synchros to downshift through all the gears so one synchro doesn't constantly get all the abuse.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:59 pm

Hmm. I don't know then... You replaced the pressure plate, too, right?

It's hard for me to imagine what might make a sound like tires squealing. It couldn't hurt to just check the belts anyway though. Or maybe your motor mounts? It could be that the motor's rocking too much. I dunno. I'm kind of reaching.

Again, if you want to be kinder to your synchros, I'd say to double clutch rather than following some rule about which gears you are and aren't allowed to shift into. If you double clutch right you also put almost no wear at all on the clutch friction material (though you do increase wear on the release bearing and arguably the pressure plate).

Skruyd · Post by **Skruyd** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:08 am

With out hearing the noise I'm taking a guess that it wasn't because you didn't grease the fork and shaft where the throwout bearing sits and connects to, but it is most likely the clutch is glazed over

With you easing the clutch out to have a smooth shift is glazing your clutch. It's almost like an A/C belt glazed over it will squeak every time the compressor engages. Like Vrg said the clutch is basically supposed to be on or off.

Also there is good and bad to everything. I don't use my engine to slow down my vehicle. I usually leave it in what ever gear it is in and use the brakes. Then just take it out of gear when I near 1000rpm's I don't see how the syncro will wear out faster? They only wear down when you put it into a gear.

But any who there are ways to deglaze your clutch without taking it out of the vehicle but I would rather take some sandpaper to it.

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 12:47 am

I see, I didn't know your clutch could wear that quickly. I've always driven that way. I'll keep that in mind from now on and try to change my driving style.

I'm almost positive it's not a belt. It's not enough torqe to make a belt slip, it's happens when you're not even accelerating quickly. Same thing in the Honda. My GF shifts differently than I do. She tends to just drop the clutch after changing gears and it's a bit of a rough ride lol.

But her clutch has a lot more miles on it than mine does.

fishbone79 · Post by **fishbone79** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 1:45 pm

Just driving normally (or correctly) for a few weeks will deglaze the clutch. Getting it nice and toasty and cooking it a up a hill or two will do it, but that's very destructive and really not recommended.

Also, did you have the flywheel surfaced when you replaced the clutch last? Clutches and flywheels are pretty similar to brake pads and rotors; they need a bed-in period to seat correctly. The clutch material actually leaves a cooked-on film in the micropores of the flywheel and pres plate surface, if you did not resurface the flywheel when the clutch was replaced, you may be dealing with an accumulation of relatively incompatible clutch material built up on your flywheel (although, thats really not that likely - most run-of-the-mill replacement clutches are pretty similar in composition). That said, I would think if this were an issue you'd have shuddering or other symptoms rather than just some noise, so I'm speculating.

*EDIT* just re-read your post and see that you've replaced the flywheel also... so disregard ^^.

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:32 pm

I think the problem is most like just me easing off the clutch when taking off in 1st and 2nd gear. Probably wore on the clutch pretty good and glazed it over.

Who knows. I'm gonna try to get out of the habit of downshifting to slow down. I never did like that but was convinced it was a good idea by someone. Or actually a bunch of people. I think that just wears the clutch out that much faster.

Besides, brakes are cheap. At least pads are...

Apex3 · Post by **Apex3** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:03 pm

kimokalihi wrote:I think the problem is most like just me easing off the clutch when taking off in 1st and 2nd gear. Probably wore on the clutch pretty good and glazed it over.

Who knows. I'm gonna try to get out of the habit of downshifting to slow down. I never did like that but was convinced it was a good idea by someone. Or actually a bunch of people. I think that just wears the clutch out that much faster.

Besides, brakes are cheap. At least pads are...

Downshifting to slow down doesn't put any more wear on the clutch than any other shift would, using only your brakes could actually cost more in the long run because your rotors will warp, and now you're replacing rotors and pads.

brand · Post by **brand** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 10:51 pm

I typically downshift while braking, simply because I want to be in the gear that gives me the most control of my vehicle in any given situation. Being neutral or the wrong gear with your foot on the brake doesn't really help you if you need to accelerate to avoid a bad situation.

Skruyd · Post by **Skruyd** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:12 pm

Just remember when you down shift to slow down. The vacuum from the intake manifold will suck oil past the piston rings.

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:50 pm

It's like an intricate art, this driving a 5spd thing....

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 1:38 am

My buddy's GSR made that noise for about 80k. He just replaced it last summer. My best guess is that it chattered at a really high frequency when he let the clutch out. It only happened half the time.

If it was slipping, you'd notice the revs jump when you put the wood to it. If not, I wouldn't worry about the clutch until it actually does slip.

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:19 am

That's my plan. I really don't want to pull that tranny out again when I just did it 7 months ago. Plus there's an issue with that aftermarket flywheel from autozone. The specs must be off on it when they made it because I believe the teeth are too big or the diameter of the flywheel is too wide because when I put it in I noticed the starter catches on it and doesn't disengage quick enough when the engine starts and makes a nasty noise. But I've gotten it down to where I can let off the key just as it's beginning to start and it disengages before the revs get up.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:10 pm

Apex3 - Downshifting to slow down can put more wear on the clutch if you're doing it with wide differences in engine speed. The clutch has to make up for the difference in engine speeds before and after the shift.

Actually, a common mistake people make when they first try to downshift to engine brake is to drop into the lower gear and then let the clutch out gradually to slow down. That's actually "clutch braking" just as much as "engine braking." Make sure you're not doing that, kimokalihi.

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:42 pm

Well, see I kind of was doing that. Actually I pretty much full on have been doing that for a month or two now.

Reason for doing so is because if you drop the clutch when downshifting it's going to jerk the car which makes for a shitty ride.

Which is why I said it wears the clutch down. It would wear it down even if you didn't ease off the clutch, wouldn't it? Maybe not a lot but any use of the clutch is going to wear it somewhat, right? Not using it at all must certainly wear it out slower than using it quite often but briefly.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:55 pm

It would wear less if you weren't riding the clutch, yes. And, yes, not using it at all is certainly going to wear it out the least.

I know I'm just repeating myself now, but I really think you should learn to double-clutch. You'll get a smooth ride and also reduced wear on the clutch friction material.

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:57 pm

I did learn how to double clutch because my 2nd gear synchro went out. So in order to take a 90 degree turn onto another street at around 20-25 mph I have to double clutch or I cannot get into 2nd gear.

So you're saying I should double clutch every downshift?

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Jul 02, 2009 5:06 pm

When you're concerned about smoothness, yes -- just keep the revs where they're supposed to be even through the end of the process (i.e. until the clutch pedal is all the way up instead of just until the gear is engaged). In principle you can make a shift almost imperceptible that way.

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Is this my clutch slipping?

Is this my clutch slipping?