Towing a subaru with a subaru?

[scuzzy]

Alright, so about a month ago I bought an 05 WRX Wagon to be my daily driver.

the 91 Legacy Wagon is busy in the garage getting it's guts ripped out; but I need to find a way to get it to the track on track days.


Due to the weight, a trailer is out of the question; and because it's a 5MT AWD, a car dolly is too. The only thing left is a tow bar.

I need to find a hitch for my 05 WRX, does anyone know of a tow bar that's compatible with a 91 legacy wagon?

I'd like something that doesn't look too gnarly, or that's difficult to put on or take off, since I need to be able to remove it within 5 minutes once i get to the track. I'd hate to deal with something that's a 20-30 minute procedure with a crescent wrench.

Thanks for any input.

[93forestpearl]

If it wasn't -5°F, 30 mph winds, and blizzard conditions, I'd go outside and look at how the hitch is mounted to my '92 wagon.




The thing is, these cars are rated at a max of 2500 lb I think, and you'd be over that by a decent margin.

[evolutionmovement]

I wouldn't want to pull that kind of weight with a unibody car, nor one that weighs so little in comparison to the unbraked towed vehicle.

[atroby91]

If it wasn't -5°F, 30 mph winds, and blizzard conditions, I'd go outside and look at how the hitch is mounted to my '92 wagon.

Lol i know what you mean.. its nasty

[scuzzy]

I appreciate each of your concerns but it's really my only option.

I'm talking about 10 miles to the track and back - the wagon weighs less than my 05 wrx (wagon is getting stripped out, curb weight was ~3200)

There's no cause for concern, it barely snows here (if it did, we wouldn't be racing) and I'm pulling behind, not towing on a trailer - significant difference: the ground is carrying the weight of the car, I'm just dragging it along.

Perhaps it seems like much, but I can push the wagon around my garage with my hands; there's very little rolling resistance there.

Slow smooth starts, no sudden braking, and once she's moving it won't take but a couple hundred pounds of force to keep it going.

Not quite like dragging a 3000lb iron weight on gravel.



Now, again, aside from all the "you shouldn't do this", I'm well aware of the concerns - can I get some actual helpful advice here, has anyone done it in the past? Does anyone have any equipment suggestions/recommendations?


I remember seeing in nasioc, a 2.5RS was towing a 2.5RS for about a 500 mile distance, but the thread escapes my research.

[kimokalihi]

I'm confused. By guts do you mean the interior or the drivetrain? If you can race it on the track, how come you can't just drive it there?

[scuzzy]

I'm confused. By guts do you mean the interior or the drivetrain? If you can race it on the track, how come you can't just drive it there?

interior.

because it's not street legal anymore.

[James614]

Roadmaster (roadmasterinc.com) has tow bar brackets for Subaru Legacy that are only 4 bolts to install (I think 1 hole on each side needs to be drilled initially) so they could probably be removed easily if desired. And their standard Tracker towbar mounts to the brackets with 4 nuts/bolts. Most other standard towbars/brackets are probably similar.

There's some tow bars/brackets that are "quick disconnect" with no tools, but I don't know of any for our cars.

[evolutionmovement]

If it's not street legal, how can you tow it? In MA, the car needs to be registered to be on the street, pulled or not and all trailers need to be registered (if it were considered a trailer), plus it would need the brake lights to work with the tow car's. The cops might not like the tow setup for safety reasons either.

[scuzzy]

Because I don't live in MA.

[evolutionmovement]

It must be nice to live in a state that relies on the intelligence of the populous.

[scuzzy]

It must be nice to live in a state that relies on the intelligence of the populous.

Is that some thinly veiled insult there? Because if it is, I don't appreciate it, and you can kindly escort your attitude out of my thread.


I didn't come here asking for advice on what everyone thinks I should do. My options are limited. Buying a truck I will drive 16 times out of the year, and a trailer I will tow 16 times out of the year, are not options for me. never mind the fact that I have nowhere to park them.

I came here looking for equipment advice. Thanks James, I'll keep roadmaster in mind, it may be my only option.


All the rest of you, if you're ever wondering why the participation on this board only ever seems to go down, find a mirror and look in it.

[Legacy777]

Scuzzy,

I think you're missing the point. You've received feedback on why you shouldn't do it. You should not try and toe your legacy with your WRX. There are some serious safety concerns, especially the weight difference and tow ratings of the WRX.

I know you don't want to get a truck, and nobody is saying you need to. But as I said, there are some serious safety concerns if you choose to do this. If something were to happen and somebody was to be injured, you are putting yourself into quite a liability issue.

Have you ever towed anything before, heavy trailers with their own brakes, etc?

[scuzzy]

Scuzzy,

I think you're missing the point. You've received feedback on why you shouldn't do it. You should not try and toe your legacy with your WRX. There are some serious safety concerns, especially the weight difference and tow ratings of the WRX.

I know you don't want to get a truck, and nobody is saying you need to. But as I said, there are some serious safety concerns if you choose to do this. If something were to happen and somebody was to be injured, you are putting yourself into quite a liability issue.

Have you ever towed anything before, heavy trailers with their own brakes, etc?

Yes I have. I've got a number of hours behind the wheel of a ford F350 pulling a loaded 16 foot trailer with electronic brakes.

I've also spent many hours being a navigator for an 18 wheeler driver who I traveled across every south eastern state with; it doesn't quite replace driving, but I know what to look for when it comes to navigating with a monkey on your back, so to speak.

I'm talking about pulling a 2600lb car with a 3100lb car. The primary limits behind the 05 WRX's towing capacity is trailer weight and how that affects tongue weight and the handling of the vehicle during braking.

It's simple: trailer weight has a direct effect on the handling of a car, when a trailer is balanced on a single axle, or two centered axles, and the pulling vehicle slows to a stop; the weight on the trailer dives forward, pushing DOWN on the hitch of the car, affecting the tongue weight and causing the nose of the towing car to rise off the ground.

The reverse happens under acceleration.


When pulling with a tow bar, you remove the rise-dive nose effect on the towing vehicle; the load is horizontal, not vertical; the tongue weight is not an issue, what you affect is your stopping distance: something easily cured with simple common sense, staying in the right lane, driving at or under the speed limit, and being observant of your surroundings.

If the WRX can tow 2000lbs trailered; it can cope with how the vehicle rises and dives during braking and acceleration under load; the logical conclusion is that an additional 600 to 800lbs, NOT TRAILERED, with no vertical tongue weight, is not substantial over the recommended towing weight in this configuration.

If I were towing 2600-2800lbs total weight including trailer, with a tongue weight of 250-290 pounds, I would not hesitate to agree with you; because when you come to a stop in that vehicle, the trailer is going to push down on the hitch so much as to lift the front wheels of the car off the ground.


Now, can we please stop questioning my intelligence and get back to the reason why I posted this topic?

[Legacy777]

Sounds like you're aware of what you're doing.

As for the question....they make trailer setups for the WRX, and they make tow setups for the Legacy. I don't have personal experience with them, but I have seen them.

[93forestpearl]

I found this on our local loard.





I've found Class II hitches for the '03-07 Forester, which are rated at 3500 lb capacity with a 350 lb tounge weight. The Class I hitches are only rated at 2000 lb max capacity. I don't see why they would have one listed for the Forester and not the Impreza since they are essentially the same damn thing.

[skid542]

Scuzzy,

Woah brother woah. When a person asks for any input they tend to get a full scope of input. People were just trying to make sure you understood the safety concens because they cared about you.

And I highly doubt Steve's comments were meant as an insult towards you. I read it as an insult against the state he lives in and that it would be nice where the state trusts the people to make smart calls. Nothing personal on that one.



Let's all take a big deep breath and relax. Mkay .

[quicklook]

scuzzy,

it sounds like you do what you want to do and to hell with anyone who says differently.

you know this is not a good idea.

when you get a ticket or something breaks don't come crying to the people saying you should not have done that.

QL

[scuzzy]

well I just got off the phone with my city, the one adjacent to me that I'd be traveling through; and the county itself.

The universal answer was so long the vehicle was not under it's own power, registration requirements are waived and it's legal to tow such a vehicle.



The problem with vague remarks on the internet is that they can be taken to mean various things, and one should avoid sarcasm to avoid getting anyone's feelings hurt when it wasn't implied.

Of course, if it was implied, it's better to just come out and be straight forward with it.

Internet isn't a great medium for communication.


Quicklook: to a certian extent, I do what I want, when I want, where I want. I'm open to others opinions on issues I'm not sure about, but this is not one of those issues.

I'm interested to hear what you think I'll break - since I've removed the whole "you'll get a ticket" aspect by calling up each PD and confirming first.


Oh, and I've never been one to come here and cry about my woes, but thanks for the concern.


If you've got any thoughts as to why this isn't a good idea, go ahead with those too; but if you're going to boil it down to "you could lose control", then don't even bother: people could lose control in a yugo and end up injuring themselves seriously (even moreso since it's a yugo, but the statement is about weight and power).

"You could get hurt" is never a justification for inaction. Breathing is deadly, Water kills, and we all die sooner or later - having fun before you go is what makes a life worth living.

[93forestpearl]

The main issues I can think of happening is deforming the metal where the hitch itself is mounted. It would take a lot, which is probably outside the scope of a grandma-style ten miles to the track, but shit happens. The other issue is braking. The stock brakes aren't designed for that. A nice set of pads can go a very long ways in improving that situation.


I'm not trying to tell you not to do it. I just try to think of all possible situations.

[scuzzy]

The main issues I can think of happening is deforming the metal where the hitch itself is mounted. It would take a lot, which is probably outside the scope of a grandma-style ten miles to the track, but shit happens. The other issue is braking. The stock brakes aren't designed for that. A nice set of pads can go a very long ways in improving that situation.


I'm not trying to tell you not to do it. I just try to think of all possible situations.

Thanks,

I really do appreciate everyone's opinions here - sometimes I just take offense to the blantantly obvious. This is something I've been thinking about for at least three months, so I really have gone over everything.

This issue played a large part in the purchase of the WRX. I knew I would need something to tow the wagon to the track with, but a truck just wasn't feasible due to the fuel economy and various other factors - this pretty much was my only option. As a plus, it's a fantastic ride; and I intend on keeping it 100% stock. I love it as a daily driver, and I've put 5000 miles on it and taken a 20 hour trip (10 hour straight) trip in it since I got it in October.


Deformation of the metal is a concern, but it's one I believe I can avoid as long as I'm not in a situation which requires putting the full weight of the car against the frame.

The towing will take place during season, on average once every other weekend. It's exactly 14.7 miles from here to the track, and the maximum speed limit on all but the last four miles (which is a deserted highway) is 45mph. On a Sunday (race day) most of the roads are unoccupied or have very few vehicles on them.

If this were an interstate trip where I needed to maintain 70 miles an hour the entire way, or otherwise battle traffic; I would be completely opposed to the idea; but everything is situational, and I really believe that in my situation I don't have anything to worry about.


I'll have to see how it goes with deforming the metal where the hitch mounts to the car; I don't think it'll be an issue.

Pads and Rotors are set to be replaced in feb, before season starts.

[93forestpearl]

You could potentially beef it up around the mounting area. An extra layer or two of factory sheet metal around that area can make a significant difference. You might not be up for that type of modification though.



Also, you need to understand that they design a certain Factor of Safety into something like that. They say you can only tow 2000 lb, but in reality you could tow 6000 lb without any unforeseen events, for example. Generally, from what I've been taught, you design in a F.S. of 8 when lives are at stake. (8 times the failure strength you actually need).

[John Drivesabox]

This is good, when I saw this I thought someone bumped my old thread.

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic. ... ght=towing

[Subtle]

I believe it has been done, but you have to undo BOTH drive trains.

[Kelly]

Just buy a truck!

They really come in handy, and many of your freinds I'm sure would be very apreceative to borrow it now and then.




Here ya go..... http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/cto/973927718.html


$750, banger. Cant go wrong. And kinda a cool truck.