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 Post subject: Re: Introduction of a siberian subarist
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:46 pm 
Second Gear
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:47 pm
Posts: 314
Location: Poland
Privet Stan!

great to see you on this forum and congrats to your Legacy. IMHO those before facelift models were toughest of them all.

Though it's indeed annoying if the car guzzles 27 liters for 100km! I know it is Siberia, harsh climate and roads but such a consumption is an overkill. I know you have checked for the ECU errors but you might also try the D-Check test with the green connectors under the dash connected. Anyway the ECU you pictured is right for the EJ22. I had a '91 Legacy 2.2 GX from Switzerland and it had exact the same 22611AA611 ECU.

Proper tune is always good, replace if you didn't the air and fuel filters, wires and the ignition coil if it fails on readings. The NGK BKR6E-11 are fine with this car. If you have new wires - replace ASAP and check if there's a difference. As for the O2 sensor if they go wrong they usually throw a code. You can check it with a multimeter, there's a procedure in the service manual. But when the sensor is new and properly connected - it must work!

BTW it is interesting that you drive an euro-spec Legacy in the region where as I've seen are so many cars imported directly from Japan (RHD). Have you ever seen there a JDM 1st gen. Legacy?

Good luck with your ride!

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 Post subject: Re: Introduction of a siberian subarist
PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:21 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:14 am
Posts: 67
Location: Barnaul, Russia
Quote:
Have you ever seen there a JDM 1st gen. Legacy?

Nope, only RHD Toyotas from 80's, perhaps 1-st gen Legacies also exist in my town, who knows...

Today I cleaned my idle valve or what's the name of this thing: Image
And tried installing new MAF again... Car was badly shaking with new MAF, so I had to return to the old one... This thing very disappoints me... :( Guess I'll have to try to sell the new one to 2-nd gen Legacy owners.

As for the ignition coil and wires... Well I haven't bought anything yet, I'm out of money, my wife is very upset that I spent so much money to this "dinosaur"...
But as soon as I get my salary on 15-th of March I'll go and buy new wires, still don't know about ignition coil though...

Tomorrow I'm planning to change filter in the tank, and also measure resistance of the fuel pump. Then I'll take each injector off and clean it with carb-cleaner and try to take a picture of their stream or spray.

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 Post subject: Re: Introduction of a siberian subarist
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 12:44 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:47 pm
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Location: Poland
Stan,

if you have access to any early EJ20 (Legacy, Impreza, Forester), the MAF and ignition coil should fit. They do not have to be new, just working, you can check them with a multimeter.

I'm starting to thing that all the problems come from a messy engine swap. The EJ18 had differences in wiring and fueling vs. EJ20 and EJ22.

BTW you have the fuel filter under the hood.

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 Post subject: Re: Introduction of a siberian subarist
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2014 2:49 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:14 am
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Location: Barnaul, Russia
I checked two used ignition coils from EJ20, they show the same bad resistanses on the primary side, and even less on the secondary side...

I replaced the fuel filter under the hood in the first place with air filter just the day after I bought the car.

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 Post subject: Re: Introduction of a siberian subarist
PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2014 3:34 am 
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Stan,

I checked my coil pack and the primary side readings were around .5 - .6 ohms, so about half of what yours are. However, I don't know if that's enough to cause the problems you are having. If we can get some other members with higher mileage coil packs to test their coils, that may help determine whether the higher resistance could be an indicator that the coil pack needs to be replaced.

Your plug wire resistances look ok. The resistance for the one plug wire I checked was around 5 kohms, so your plug wires look ok. If you can find another used coil pack locally, that'd be my suggestion to at least determine whether the coil pack is the problem.

Any chance you could take pictures of the old and new MAF sensors?

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1997 Impreza OBS

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 Post subject: Re: Introduction of a siberian subarist
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:52 pm 
First Gear
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:14 am
Posts: 67
Location: Barnaul, Russia
Hello! Sorry for being absent for such a long time...

Quote:
Any chance you could take pictures of the old and new MAF sensors?

I'll do that tomorrow, and respond with pics...

Also I've tried and ordered new wires on saturday, and guess what - I've measured resistance of them - it's the same as my wires!
Here's why I decided to change them - I took off all of my injectors, one of them with white top, others with gray. I tried to clean them, but was very upset to find out that they have net around them, so it's difficult to inject carb cleaner in them without insulating the rest of the net...
After few unsuccessful tries I set injectors back to engine. Is there any specific pressure ratio on tightining them? I've just completely tightened with screwdriver all bolts. After I started the engine - I noticed white exhaust, and gasoline spitting from the muffler.
Here's what I tried:
Disconnected first injector - engine started to shake a little bit, second - nothing changed, third - shaking, fourth - shaking...
I removed the spark plug from the second cylinder - it's covered with gasoline... All other plugs were black again, and a little wet.
Now car doesn't want to start at all, I guess my accumulator is dead, it's recharging now at home, will try again tomorrow...

I think some of my injectors are just leaking with engine off, some are spitting the wrong way... Too bad I ran entire city trying to find the service that could set them into special device and show how they spray - all of damn services support damned Toyota or Mazda injectors only!

And this evening I googled for 16611-AA141 and found this website. Wow so cheap in US! New injectors cost $140 in online store, 20 days to wait. Here I can get a whole set for 200 bucks! With $50 for USPS to Russia, it's kind of affordable. But when I added them to cart - I noticed that they cost 298 bucks with this "refundable core charge - $100" thing included. What the hell is that? Besides that they are "Remanufactured". I lost in terms... refundable... remanufactured... Could you please explain me what does that mean?

Are these the right injectors for EJ22 atmo? Well japancats.ru says me that they are... They look like my injectors, but with red tops, and a little different sprayer.

I thought about you my American friends. You are there, and you could probably help me out!

Thank you in advance! You already helped me out so much! Now with dollar-rouble course raising I think I need to quickly react and order those injectors...

What do you think?

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 Post subject: Re: Introduction of a siberian subarist
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:56 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:14 am
Posts: 67
Location: Barnaul, Russia
And one probably stupid question appeared in my mind - Does gasoline actually able to make it's way from leaking injector through the rings and end up in engine oil? I fear that after chaning injectors I'll have to change motor oil also...

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 Post subject: Re: Introduction of a siberian subarist
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 6:29 pm 
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The injectors can be quite difficult to get seated. They need to "snap" into place before you put the caps back on. I would suggest pulling the injectors or at least the one you think is leaking and make sure the o-rings are lubricated in light grease and try to reinstall it until you feel it snap into place.

However, if by removing the injector wiring from the #2 injector doesn't do anything to how the engine runs, I think you found your problem and that injector is dead. By chance have you measured the resistance of all the injectors? If not, I'd suggest doing that. All your injectors should be the same, and usually the color indicates the flow.

Here are some photos of some injectors out of my car, which of these looks most like yours?

http://main.experiencetherave.com/subar ... injectors/
http://main.experiencetherave.com/subar ... injectors/


Yes gasoline can make it down past the rings and dillute the oil. I would first recommend getting your injector problem fixed and then check your oil to see if it smells like gasoline....if it does, then it would be good to change it.

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1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

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 Post subject: Re: Introduction of a siberian subarist
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:05 am 
First Gear
Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:14 am
Posts: 67
Location: Barnaul, Russia
Here are injectors. Will those red ones fit my caps?
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Introduction of a siberian subarist
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:32 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:14 am
Posts: 67
Location: Barnaul, Russia
I guess these are mine: http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/or00-0r0 ... 112-subaru

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 Post subject: Re: Introduction of a siberian subarist
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:31 am 
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Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:41 am
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Stop! Don't buy new injectors yet. Sounds to me like they're perfectly fine. You said yourself that removing the connector to number 2 did not make a change. But when you removed the number 2 spark plug you saw it had gasoline on it. So clearly its injecting fuel but not getting spark. This means you must have a problem with your coil pack not firing the number 2 cylinder. You're driving around on 3 cylinders dumping fuel into one cylinder and running very poorly. That's why your fuel economy is bad. Its gotta be the coil pack I think. Since the plugs and wires are new and all the injectors are working.

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 Post subject: Re: Introduction of a siberian subarist
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:26 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:14 am
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Location: Barnaul, Russia
Hello! The problem with white smoke and 3 alive cylynders was that I forgot to place this little vacuum hose back on the pressure regulator!
Image
As soon as I returned it back - the engine started working as usual, and also exhaust smells as bad as usual... =)
As for the coil pack - I disconnected the wires one by one and attached another plug on each of them to see the spark - well they do light up... Perhaps they are not lighting up in the right way or probably sometimes the sparks are being skipped - I can't check it out though...
I'll try my best to take my car to a injector cleaning service, and make a video of them spraying or leaking... On Saturday I hope to do this...
As for the coil pack, I don't know I'm afraid to throw off another $100+ bucks for nothing as I did with MAF...
And here are the pics of my old and new MAFs:
OLD MAF from JECS:
Image

Image

Image

NEW MAF from Bremi:
Image

Image

And the smell of oil... Hell, it does smell like gasoline, and the level is higher than it has to be... Is it really bad? Can I drive the car until my new oil and filter will arive (7 days)?

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 Post subject: Re: Introduction of a siberian subarist
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:20 pm 
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kimokalihi wrote:
Stop! Don't buy new injectors yet. Sounds to me like they're perfectly fine. You said yourself that removing the connector to number 2 did not make a change. But when you removed the number 2 spark plug you saw it had gasoline on it. So clearly its injecting fuel but not getting spark. This means you must have a problem with your coil pack not firing the number 2 cylinder. You're driving around on 3 cylinders dumping fuel into one cylinder and running very poorly. That's why your fuel economy is bad. Its gotta be the coil pack I think. Since the plugs and wires are new and all the injectors are working.



Kimo,

If he's got a coil pack like the US legacies it's a wasted spark ignition so cylinders 2 & 4 will fire at the same time. So usually if the coil pack is bad you will get two opposing cylinders that don't work. If you only have one cylinder that doesn't work it is more likely either a spark plug, splark plug wire, or injector.



Stan, out of curiosity, have tried swapping injectors between cylinders to see if the problem follows the injector vs. staying with the same cylinder?

Again, have you checked the resistance of each injector?

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1997 Impreza OBS

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 Post subject: Re: Introduction of a siberian subarist
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:21 pm 
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stan31337 wrote:
Here are injectors. Will those red ones fit my caps?



The fitment issue is in the fuel rails not the caps, and no I don't believe the red injectors will work in your fuel rails.

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Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

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 Post subject: Re: Introduction of a siberian subarist
PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:33 pm 
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stan31337 wrote:
As for the coil pack - I disconnected the wires one by one and attached another plug on each of them to see the spark - well they do light up... Perhaps they are not lighting up in the right way or probably sometimes the sparks are being skipped - I can't check it out though...
I'll try my best to take my car to a injector cleaning service, and make a video of them spraying or leaking... On Saturday I hope to do this...
As for the coil pack, I don't know I'm afraid to throw off another $100+ bucks for nothing as I did with MAF...


I think your issue is with an injector or something is not right with the wiring to the injector. Based on your tests the coil pack sounds ok.


stan31337 wrote:
And here are the pics of my old and new MAFs:
OLD MAF from JECS:


Is there any markings or labels on the new MAF that match the old one? It looks like it should work. That missing pin is related to certain Legacies that had two different MAF sensors and it told the ECU whether the correct MAF sensor was used. That shouldn't be an issue for your car.


stan31337 wrote:
And the smell of oil... Hell, it does smell like gasoline, and the level is higher than it has to be... Is it really bad? Can I drive the car until my new oil and filter will arive (7 days)?


How badly does it smell like gasoline and how much higher is the level, and how many miles/kilometers do you drive per day?

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1997 Impreza OBS

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 Post subject: Re: Introduction of a siberian subarist
PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 12:11 am 
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Location: Barnaul, Russia
Quote:
How badly does it smell like gasoline and how much higher is the level, and how many miles/kilometers do you drive per day?

I drive about 20 km per day, and up to 60 km on weekends. Most of them are short rides.
Actually I was a little more worried yesterday about gasoline in oil, or it has evaporated overnight... Here's a level of oil:
Image

And it doesn't seem to smell like gasoline anymore, but I guess I'll should change it after all... Spring came, time for 10W40! =)

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 Post subject: Re: Introduction of a siberian subarist
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:21 am 
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Location: Barnaul, Russia
I checked injector resistances today:
# 1 - 12.9
# 2 - 12.3
# 3 - 11.9
# 4 - 12.4

Seems a little higher than normal. Still had no luck trying to clean them. Calling another "specialist" right now, told me to come on Monday maybe, and take a set of new injector rings... What the hell? They cost so much!

Also I'm planning to check fuel ramp pressure to ensure that my fuel regulator is ok. But I think it's OK, because I already had trouble about it =)

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 Post subject: Re: Introduction of a siberian subarist
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 4:59 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:14 am
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Location: Barnaul, Russia
Finally the Spring is coming! And I used the most of my time to check all possible electrics:

Skipped:
1. Fuel Pump Relay. I don't know where it's located
2. Crank Angle Sensor
3. Starter
4. Cam Angle Sensor
5. Water Temperature Sensor (because new one is installed)
6. Knock Sensor (because new one is installed)
7. Vehicle Speed Sensor
8. Economy Switch AT
9. Inhibitor AT
10. Parking Switch AT

Also I skipped some things like "resistance between ECU and connector" or "between ECU and body". Currently tested old MAF.
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

And one thing also... Today she began starting up a little longer than usual... Here's a video: http://youtu.be/ay58mhhTnso

And here's a video of really bad exhaust I have from the moment I bought this car: http://youtu.be/uTMaa5_hX4w

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 Post subject: Re: Introduction of a siberian subarist
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:51 pm 
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Location: Barnaul, Russia
Today I also filled 12 liters of G-95 gasoline from Gazpromneft. It's the best fuel in Russia, it's like 95-th (american 92) but with some additions for fuel system cleaning... And people say that it does it's job well...
I didn't notice any difference in acceleration though...

Then in the evening I went to service for injector cleaning and measurement of fuel pressure.
I was very upset to find out that this type of injectors could not be seen operating, so the service guy cleaned them with ultrasound... And he told me that this won't help, instead it can get worse... F**K! He did say though that there's some black shit came out of injectors during 10 minutes operation of this Killer-Ultrasonic Machine...
Then I couldn't start the engine, probably because injectors were completely dry, after few crankings I was able to start the engine. The fuel pressure was telling 2.6 at idle to 2.8 at 4'000 rpm.
I left around $55 for the service procedures, and went home... First of all I tried to test the 2500 - 3500 rpm acceleration, and it did work well, the kick-down finally was doing it's job... As for the fuel consumption - hell knows, but the exhaust was rich and a little black... As usual ((((

Also serviceman said that excessive consumption could be because of low compression ratio. Mine is 10 kg/cm3. And for 2200cc must be 11 - 13 kg/cm3... Does that mean I have to rebuild my engine?

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 Post subject: Re: Introduction of a siberian subarist
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 5:42 pm 
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10kg/cm2 = ~142 psi for non metric types. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Introduction of a siberian subarist
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:35 pm 
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Location: Barnaul, Russia
mike-tracy wrote:
10kg/cm2 = ~142 psi for non metric types. ;)

Sorry guys! I promise to pre-convert everything before posting again ;)

By the way what are your EJs' compression?
Could you respond like this:
EJ22 - 142psi - 7,84 mpg

So I'll try to figure out if the compression really affects the fuel consumption... Or after all it's the ignition coil?

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 Post subject: Re: Introduction of a siberian subarist
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:49 pm 
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I think my old 1990 non-turbo legacy was about 180 psi and got an average of 25 mpg automatic wagon. Ran flawlessly. Your car has about the same compression as my turbo legacy. Do you know what each cylinder is at? Or are they all pretty close to 142?

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 Post subject: Re: Introduction of a siberian subarist
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:59 pm 
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Location: Barnaul, Russia
First cylinder is 149 psi, others are 142.
Your 180 psi does fit into this table, and almost at it's top:
Image

Is it difficult to rebuild the engine myself? I could send out photos of the things needed for defectoscopy on this forum =) What parts do I need to aquire? What tools do I need? Hell of a topic this will be...

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 Post subject: Re: Introduction of a siberian subarist
PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:06 pm 
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Look at the bottom of that chart under limits. You fall within the limits (9kg/cm2 minimum, and 2kg/cm2 difference between cylinders). Your engine compression is still within the published range.

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 Post subject: Re: Introduction of a siberian subarist
PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 2:17 am 
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Doesn't look like a rebuild is your problem. Your compression is pretty equal from one cylinder to the next and within acceptable range.

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