New to Subarus - just got a '93 Legacy

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MrTodd
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New to Subarus - just got a '93 Legacy

Post by MrTodd »

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to introduce myself along with asking a couple questions. First off, I'm 31, student (finishing up my BSN, eventually will go on to DNP), and I've been working on cars since I was about 17. I've only really worked on Hondas, and I've done everything - engine builds, suspension, even some body work (i suck at body work, though). I used to do a lot of autocross, but school has become my priority so I don't do much car stuff anymore.

Anyway, I just bought a 1993 Subaru Legacy Wagon (AWD, 5spd Manual) from a friend for $500. I'm pretty damn excited about this thing. It runs relatively well... A/C works, cruise control, P/S, power windows, basically more creature comforts than what I'm used to! No performance projects are in store for it; rather, I just want to fix it up as much as I can over the summer in hopes that it will last for a few more years. First thing's first - the clutch is slipping quite a bit, it sounds/feels like the throw-out bearing is toast. That said, I'm gonna replace the clutch. Just looking at it I think I can do the swap without too much of a problem, but since I've never worked on Subaru's before (or an AWD car, for that matter) I was hoping that perhaps you guys could give me a few pointers before I start?

Planning to pull just the tranny to replace it, all while keeping the engine in. I was also thinking that I should probably replace the axle seals, and maybe even the rear main seal while I'm in there just for peace of mind. What do you guys think? Also, I was thinking about just going with Exedy for the replacement clutch. Good, bad idea? Any good places to get parts that you guys know of? (most likely just going to go through rockauto for most everything)

Lastly, is there any way to get a hold of an official Subaru factory service manual? (Not a Hayne's or Chilton's) With my old Honda's I was able to find PDF's of the Honda shop manuals, and it was VERY helpful when it came down to technical stuff. Not sure if Subaru has the same thing...
magicmike
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Re: New to Subarus - just got a '93 Legacy

Post by magicmike »

Hi and welcome. this is the place for all the info you will need to fix up your wagon. Browse around and search the stickies in each forum. There is a link to the FSM that you asked for and its in one of the stickies I believe. Unlike most message boards, you will find everyone here very nice and helpful!
-Mike

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MrTodd
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Re: New to Subarus - just got a '93 Legacy

Post by MrTodd »

Outstanding, thank you!! I found THIS thread which looks like it has all I need.

Looking forward to fixing up this car. I'll probably document my progress in the Build Journals section, even though it will mostly be just common/routine maintenance stuff.

:-)
kimokalihi
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Re: New to Subarus - just got a '93 Legacy

Post by kimokalihi »

I would pull the engine to replace the clutch. I hate getting under the car. Unless you have a lift and tranny jack. Its way easier imo. Pulling the engine is actually pretty easy and it can be done with removing the radiator fans and leaving the radiator in place if I recall correctly. You'll need a hoist of course.

Welcome to the forum. And pretty much everybody gets the exedy cluth kits.
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MrTodd
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Re: New to Subarus - just got a '93 Legacy

Post by MrTodd »

kimokalihi wrote:I would pull the engine to replace the clutch. I hate getting under the car. Unless you have a lift and tranny jack. Its way easier imo. Pulling the engine is actually pretty easy and it can be done with removing the radiator fans and leaving the radiator in place if I recall correctly. You'll need a hoist of course.

Welcome to the forum. And pretty much everybody gets the exedy cluth kits.

Thanks for the response - I appreciate your insight. I don't blame you at all for hating to go under the car, I'm right there with you. I'm still debating between either dropping the tranny or pulling the engine. All of my Hondas I've just dropped the tranny, so that's what I'm mostly used to. Even so, the transmission on my Legacy looks like it's a bit bigger and heavier than those little FWD units I've played around with, so I'm planning on picking up a harbor freight scissor jack/transmission jack to drop the tranny. The way I see it, and I may very well be wrong, it appears easier for me to just focus on the axles, driveshaft, shift linkage, starter, and tranny mounts as opposed to all the electrical, coolant, P/S, A/C (i don't want to purge the refrigerant if i don't have to), and all other cables and lines associated with the engine itself - that and I don't have an engine lift (i usually rent one when doing engine swaps, though I did do 2 complete swaps with just a motorcycle jack, hah, it wasn't pretty).

I'm just thinking out loud. Considering I'm new to these cars I figured it's best to ask everyone before diving in. Quick question - when removing the engine for the clutch replacement, do you still have the tranny attached while using the engine hoist? Or do you unplug it while it's still in there, separating the two when you lift out the block...?

Thanks for the welcome! And thanks for the confirmation on using Exedy.
kimokalihi
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Re: New to Subarus - just got a '93 Legacy

Post by kimokalihi »

With a honda removing the trans is easier. I've done it a couple times on civics. But on the subaru you've got tye extra driveshaft and its way heavier. You can drop a honda tranny on your chest with your hands. A subaru trans would probably crush you, although my buddy did bench press my subaru trans up into my car last time it was out and I bolted it in while he was holding it. I couldn't pull that off. I don't have ac but you can unbolt the compressor easily and put it aside with the lines I think.

When pulling the engine you unhook your fuel lines, pull the clutch fork pin, remove ac, disconnect harness, remove intake plastics, remove radiaor fans and drain radiator, remove radiator hoses and then unbolt the bellhouse and engine mounts and lift engine out and forward. I probably forgot something but that's about it. Pretty easy. Proper tools and you could have it out in 30-60 mins.
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kimokalihi
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Re: New to Subarus - just got a '93 Legacy

Post by kimokalihi »

If you're non-turbo, I don't think you have a clutch pin to remove. On the turbos the clutch pivot pin must be removed or the engine won't seperate from the trans.
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Legacy777
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Re: New to Subarus - just got a '93 Legacy

Post by Legacy777 »

Welcome to the BBS!

If the AC still works, I wouldn't try taking the motor out and risk losing the refrigerant charge. Dropping the 5spd is not too bad. If you have someone that can help, that will certainly make things easier, but I have dropped and installed the 5spd myself.

How many miles are on the car? The rear main seal on the engine sometimes leaks, but sometimes doesn't. They can be a bit of a pain to change. If you do replace it do not install it too far in, or it will leak. Search around and you can find some info of people having this issue. This is what the rear main seal should look like. Also, if you have the older style plastic oil separator plate, you should replace it with the newer metal one. Again, searching will give you the info on the part #'s for the plate and bolts.

http://main.experiencetherave.com/subar ... G_3731.JPG

If you do the axle seals, I think the axle stubs can be removed on the non-turbo 5mt. Other thing to note is that there is an o-ring around the bearing cap that seals the bearing cap and transmission case. This can leak, but if it doesn't appear to be leaking, I would probably leave it alone since replacing this requires making sure the bearing preload is correct. This thread has info on the 6spd, but it'll give you an idea of how the caps are setup.

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=50841

You can replace the rear driveline oil seal as well if you want. It shouldn't be too hard to replace.
Josh

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1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
MrTodd
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Re: New to Subarus - just got a '93 Legacy

Post by MrTodd »

Appreciate all the responses! Thanks everyone.

Legacy777 - The car has about 150k on the clock. I'm anticipating replacing the rear main seal, I've done a few on Hondas. Also, the A/C does work and that's one of the biggest reasons why I don't want to pull the entire engine, as I don't want to fumble around trying to recharge it, repair leaks, etc. Lastly, I don't have an engine lift - I usually rent them. For not much more than renting I can buy a cheap low-profile scissor jack for the transmission to lower it, so that's what I'm going to do.

I've read a bit about this oil separator plate, but I'm not exactly sure where I can get a replacement at? Where can I order the metal plate? (think autozone could order it in for me?) And lastly, does the separator plate have a gasket, or do I use something like RTV sealant on it?

I am not sure if I'll mess with the axle seals and/or driveline seal just yet, I'll take a look at them when the tranny is off. Either way, thank you VERY much for the link to your experience in replacing them. It looks rather straightforward, although tedious and delicate.

Again, thanks everyone for the insight! I'm gonna start working on it today.
kimokalihi
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Re: New to Subarus - just got a '93 Legacy

Post by kimokalihi »

You order the oil seperator plate from subaru. Seal it with rtv grey or fuji bond. You also need new bolts for that metal plate! You cannot resuse the bolts from the stock plastic plate because they have tapered heads on them that fit the plastic plate but you need flat regular heads for the metal plate. If I remember correctly they're the same as the oil pan bolts hut you might as well order the bolts for the plate at the same time as the plate. I doubt any parts store will have that plate.
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MrTodd
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Re: New to Subarus - just got a '93 Legacy

Post by MrTodd »

Okay, got the new clutch in! It wasreally tough getting the tranny back in, but eventually I got it. Anyway, I've got everything buttoned back up, the clutch pedal feels good.....but when I go to start it, it starts just fine - idles great, then about 3-5 seconds later it just dies... Any ideas? I've double checked every hose, connector, everything that I messed with during the clutch install. I don't get it - it ran and idled great before pulling the tranny.

Help?
robertpaige
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Re: New to Subarus - just got a '93 Legacy

Post by robertpaige »

MAF sensor? Fuel pump/lines?
Guaranteed that something small is unplugged that you missed.


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MrTodd
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Re: New to Subarus - just got a '93 Legacy

Post by MrTodd »

Thanks for the quick response! I triple checked everything, and I'm damn sure nothing is unplugged. I was looking through the forum to see if others had this problem, and I found a few threads stating that it is the MAF sensor.

I unplugged the MAF sensor and started it, seems to idle just fine (although a check engine light is on). Does not die with the sensor unplugged. When I plug it back in, start it up, check engine light goes away, but then it dies after idling for about 4 seconds.

Considering this, do you think it's safe to say my MAF sensor is toast? If so, where is the best place to get a replacement? Checked auto zone, damn thing costs over $200. Sigh.. Any ideas? Junkyard?
Last edited by MrTodd on Sat May 10, 2014 2:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
robertpaige
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Re: New to Subarus - just got a '93 Legacy

Post by robertpaige »

Sounds like your MAF went out at the same time..

Head to the junkyard, they will have first gen Leggys, as long as you're NA which it sounds like it.
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Legacy777
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Re: New to Subarus - just got a '93 Legacy

Post by Legacy777 »

I'd suggest checking the wiring & MAF with a multi-meter to confirm that the MAF is the issue and not something else.

Here are the testing procedures

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... sting1.jpg
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... sting2.jpg
Josh

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1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
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