. So obviously I am going to pass on the car, since that is just about the asking price 
post-post-test drive
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DiscPhilosopher
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post-post-test drive
well we went back and I decided that I really didnt know enough about cars to warrent buying it without having an expert check it out first. So i took it to firestone and had them give it the once over for twenty bucks. They told me that both front struts were blown, the right rear wasnt working and it needed a lot of general work (new tires, trans flush, hoses) andyway total came to just shy of $1,900 . So obviously I am going to pass on the car, since that is just about the asking price
. So obviously I am going to pass on the car, since that is just about the asking price crooks....
tires, shocks, hoses, trans fluid, hoses should not cost 1900. should be less than 1000 with high quality parts, with the shocks and tires being the most expensive. you can get all that stuff for less then 500 if you go with cheapo tires and shocks.
Did they check compression?
Take it to a real mechanic and he should do a compression test and possibly test boost pressure. Usually costs $100 for the tests that a real mech does.
tires, shocks, hoses, trans fluid, hoses should not cost 1900. should be less than 1000 with high quality parts, with the shocks and tires being the most expensive. you can get all that stuff for less then 500 if you go with cheapo tires and shocks.
Did they check compression?
Take it to a real mechanic and he should do a compression test and possibly test boost pressure. Usually costs $100 for the tests that a real mech does.
92ss, 66bsa thunderbolt, 92miata, 06wrx
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vrg3
- Vikash
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Yeah, I'm with FG.
A set of new KYB GR-2s (very nice struts) should be around $300.
A set of good new tires would be between $200 and $400.
Flushing the transmission fluid can't cost more than $50 or so, right? And hoses... like $20?
So that's less than $800 in parts. And shops get parts cheaper than we do.
I'd suggest you still consider buying it. Then get the GR2s from the Tire Rack and install them yourself (if you've never done it before, it's a good one-weekend job). Then get a set of nearly-new stock wheels with tires from a WRX owner who upgraded his, which you can of course install yourself in half an hour. The car should then ride very, very well -- much better than any car you'd buy used. You could probably then sell the stock 15" wheels from the car to make back some of the cost.
If you are up to it, flush the tranny and replace hoses yourself. Otherwise, take it to a shop for that (not the Firestone place you're talking about!).
In the end, you'll have spent less than 3 grand on it for sure, and it'll ride great.
Of course, all this advice is dependent on you getting a good shop check the car out properly. I'll repeat -- don't go back to the Firestone place! :)
A set of new KYB GR-2s (very nice struts) should be around $300.
A set of good new tires would be between $200 and $400.
Flushing the transmission fluid can't cost more than $50 or so, right? And hoses... like $20?
So that's less than $800 in parts. And shops get parts cheaper than we do.
I'd suggest you still consider buying it. Then get the GR2s from the Tire Rack and install them yourself (if you've never done it before, it's a good one-weekend job). Then get a set of nearly-new stock wheels with tires from a WRX owner who upgraded his, which you can of course install yourself in half an hour. The car should then ride very, very well -- much better than any car you'd buy used. You could probably then sell the stock 15" wheels from the car to make back some of the cost.
If you are up to it, flush the tranny and replace hoses yourself. Otherwise, take it to a shop for that (not the Firestone place you're talking about!).
In the end, you'll have spent less than 3 grand on it for sure, and it'll ride great.
Of course, all this advice is dependent on you getting a good shop check the car out properly. I'll repeat -- don't go back to the Firestone place! :)
Re: post-post-test drive
Where in columbus are you at? I have two buddies in columbus. I can ask them if they know a good reputable shop.DiscPhilosopher wrote:well we went back and I decided that I really didnt know enough about cars to warrent buying it without having an expert check it out first. So i took it to firestone and had them give it the once over for twenty bucks. They told me that both front struts were blown, the right rear wasnt working and it needed a lot of general work (new tires, trans flush, hoses) andyway total came to just shy of $1,900
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
Any sort of flush at a shop is going to be $80+ unless you have the hook-up. They have special machines to do it (or not) and they act like they need to fetch that sort of price for what they do. I laughed at my friend when he told me a pressure machine cleaning deal on my Brat's radiator was nearly $100. And that was my friend... geez. FG & VR, you guys haven't been to any mechanic shops recently, I can tell. RAPE CITY.
You'll be looking at at around $500 for all 4 struts installed. At least $100 for the tranny work since they'll probably have to drop the pan. And depending on what hoses need to be replaced... probably another $100 for that. So, $700 + tires is a good ballpark figure without seeing the car (and barring anything like a bad turbo or tranny). The thing about these cars is that you can replace most parts with much better aftermarket stuff for less than OEM cost.
So, try and find a shop with a mechanic that has worked on this type (90-94) of Subaru before. See what they say you'll need. A good shop will look it over for free, it takes 5 minutes to find things that are majorly wrong. Otherwise get something small done, like an oil change and ask them to check specific parts... they'll do it, because they would love to find something wrong and give you a price to fix it since it's already on the lift. A dealership might be good for this. After that you know what really needs to be done... for all you know the firestone guy only knows what GM's feel like suspension wise, etc...
And lastly, what do you want to use the car for? If it's for A-B transportation then this may not be a good car to start uphill with, look for a cleaner one. If you are looking for a car that is practical and handles great and happens to be really fast and will be even faster when you get done, go for it.
You'll be looking at at around $500 for all 4 struts installed. At least $100 for the tranny work since they'll probably have to drop the pan. And depending on what hoses need to be replaced... probably another $100 for that. So, $700 + tires is a good ballpark figure without seeing the car (and barring anything like a bad turbo or tranny). The thing about these cars is that you can replace most parts with much better aftermarket stuff for less than OEM cost.
So, try and find a shop with a mechanic that has worked on this type (90-94) of Subaru before. See what they say you'll need. A good shop will look it over for free, it takes 5 minutes to find things that are majorly wrong. Otherwise get something small done, like an oil change and ask them to check specific parts... they'll do it, because they would love to find something wrong and give you a price to fix it since it's already on the lift. A dealership might be good for this. After that you know what really needs to be done... for all you know the firestone guy only knows what GM's feel like suspension wise, etc...
And lastly, what do you want to use the car for? If it's for A-B transportation then this may not be a good car to start uphill with, look for a cleaner one. If you are looking for a car that is practical and handles great and happens to be really fast and will be even faster when you get done, go for it.
1993 WMP BC6 5MT EJ22T 9psi 3.9:1 213k 205/55R16
62.6 m/s @ 0.66 bar. Gotta love boost. :)
62.6 m/s @ 0.66 bar. Gotta love boost. :)
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DiscPhilosopher
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here is the breakdown firestone gave me:
Front strut:
177.19 part 224.00 labor
rear struts:
249.24 (X2) 266.00 labor
46.95 (X2) strut cushion
so right there was 1259.57
plus 400 for wheels and alignment 75 for hoses and 150 for radiator and transmission flush.
all this on top of the stinky oil leak was enough to deter me and my wonderful parents who were going to loan me the money. The car heads to a deal auction tomorrow... if it doesnt sell maybe I can go back and talk to the guy about selling it for less, but 2K was pushing my limits, 2k plus repairs I just can't afford.
On a positive note the sluggishness I felt at the first test drive was gone... probably had to do with the car having sat for a few weeks. To be honest I would have bought it after todays test drive if it wasnt for what firestone said.
Front strut:
177.19 part 224.00 labor
rear struts:
249.24 (X2) 266.00 labor
46.95 (X2) strut cushion
so right there was 1259.57
plus 400 for wheels and alignment 75 for hoses and 150 for radiator and transmission flush.
all this on top of the stinky oil leak was enough to deter me and my wonderful parents who were going to loan me the money. The car heads to a deal auction tomorrow... if it doesnt sell maybe I can go back and talk to the guy about selling it for less, but 2K was pushing my limits, 2k plus repairs I just can't afford.
On a positive note the sluggishness I felt at the first test drive was gone... probably had to do with the car having sat for a few weeks. To be honest I would have bought it after todays test drive if it wasnt for what firestone said.
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vrg3
- Vikash
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I do try to avoid shops as much as I can, because it's very hard to trust most of them. There are plenty of stories on this BBS alone that make the reason obvious.
I don't know too much about the automatic transmissions, so if you say $80+, Brat4by4, I'll believe it. But can't you just take a whole vat of ATF and connect hoses to and from the tranny and just let the tranny's own pump do the flushing?
$500 is a bit high to pay for the struts installed, especially if they charge for the alignment separately. And the prices they quoted you, DiscPhilosopher, are way too high too. I'll reiterate that GR2s are about $70 each, and they're the best non-adjustable strut you can buy for this car. You can replace them yourself without too much difficulty, too. I can replace a front strut in about two hours easily, so I'm sure they could do it faster. If they really want $110 an hour, that's absurd. The one shop I do take my car to charges me $40 an hour, and does excellent work.
I'm not sure I know what the "strut cushions" are. If they're talking about the little rubber rings, those are about $20 list price. You can get them for more like $10 online.
$400 for tires and alignment's not too bad, but you can do better with my suggestion of getting secondhand stock wheels with tires. If you look on NASIOC ( http://www.nasioc.com/forums ) you can often find people getting rid of their stock WRX wheels with tires in good shape for as little as $300. You'd have to pay shipping if they're not near you, but there's no labor charge for putting them on the car yourself. And you'd have the stock wheels still with you, to use or sell.
So even if you trust Firestone, you can replace the struts and wheels yourself without too much effort for less than $700, and then have them do the alignment, hoses, coolant flush, and tranny flush for less than $300 I'd hope. But I'm sure there is a better place to take the car for those things.
I feel like I already said all this, but oh well.
If I were in your area and could scrounge up 2 grand, I might consider buying that car myself.
I don't know too much about the automatic transmissions, so if you say $80+, Brat4by4, I'll believe it. But can't you just take a whole vat of ATF and connect hoses to and from the tranny and just let the tranny's own pump do the flushing?
$500 is a bit high to pay for the struts installed, especially if they charge for the alignment separately. And the prices they quoted you, DiscPhilosopher, are way too high too. I'll reiterate that GR2s are about $70 each, and they're the best non-adjustable strut you can buy for this car. You can replace them yourself without too much difficulty, too. I can replace a front strut in about two hours easily, so I'm sure they could do it faster. If they really want $110 an hour, that's absurd. The one shop I do take my car to charges me $40 an hour, and does excellent work.
I'm not sure I know what the "strut cushions" are. If they're talking about the little rubber rings, those are about $20 list price. You can get them for more like $10 online.
$400 for tires and alignment's not too bad, but you can do better with my suggestion of getting secondhand stock wheels with tires. If you look on NASIOC ( http://www.nasioc.com/forums ) you can often find people getting rid of their stock WRX wheels with tires in good shape for as little as $300. You'd have to pay shipping if they're not near you, but there's no labor charge for putting them on the car yourself. And you'd have the stock wheels still with you, to use or sell.
So even if you trust Firestone, you can replace the struts and wheels yourself without too much effort for less than $700, and then have them do the alignment, hoses, coolant flush, and tranny flush for less than $300 I'd hope. But I'm sure there is a better place to take the car for those things.
I feel like I already said all this, but oh well.
If I were in your area and could scrounge up 2 grand, I might consider buying that car myself.
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rallysam
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Lemme hit you with another opinion. These issues are standard for most old cars. Do only PREVENTATIVE maintance like oil changes, but otherwise drive it till something breaks. Just my 2 cents.
Struts: Every old Legacy has struts that are totally worn out and useless including probably most of the people on this board (unless you mean they are actually "blown" but I doubt it).
Tires: pretty normal replacement, obviously, but under $400 installed. Does it REALLY need new tires now? Measure yourself. In my experience - don't ask someone whose shirt says "Firestone" or "Goodyear" - I've heard so many stories where these guys always say "it is unsafe to drive away with these tires in this condition" They pulled that BS on me when I brought my RS in but I drove on those tires for another 18 months / 30k miles.
For $20, your mechanic knows nothing. Hoses, flush, these are all normal maintanence stuff that you might do on any old car. But, I guarantee that your mechanic has NO evidence that this things are even needed. If your friend brought the same car in tomorrow, I bet the mechanic would say that it needed new wiper blades, a four wheel alignment, and a headlight adjustment instead of the things he told you.
Struts: Every old Legacy has struts that are totally worn out and useless including probably most of the people on this board (unless you mean they are actually "blown" but I doubt it).
Tires: pretty normal replacement, obviously, but under $400 installed. Does it REALLY need new tires now? Measure yourself. In my experience - don't ask someone whose shirt says "Firestone" or "Goodyear" - I've heard so many stories where these guys always say "it is unsafe to drive away with these tires in this condition" They pulled that BS on me when I brought my RS in but I drove on those tires for another 18 months / 30k miles.
For $20, your mechanic knows nothing. Hoses, flush, these are all normal maintanence stuff that you might do on any old car. But, I guarantee that your mechanic has NO evidence that this things are even needed. If your friend brought the same car in tomorrow, I bet the mechanic would say that it needed new wiper blades, a four wheel alignment, and a headlight adjustment instead of the things he told you.
'00 Impr RS - sold
'91 Legacy Turbo 5MT - mothballed
13psi, TurboXS TBE, WRX IC, Hallman MBC, TurboXS FCD, KYB AGX, Phil's STI seat, SPT short shifter, David Carter hood, Zeitronix widebandO2, Kuhmo rally tires, STI IC spray, thanks:gearboxtech.com
'91 Legacy Turbo 5MT - mothballed
13psi, TurboXS TBE, WRX IC, Hallman MBC, TurboXS FCD, KYB AGX, Phil's STI seat, SPT short shifter, David Carter hood, Zeitronix widebandO2, Kuhmo rally tires, STI IC spray, thanks:gearboxtech.com
Ok, I'm going to jump in here. The shop you took it to is out to screw you. End of story. Any older car in the $2000 price range is going to need some work or have twice the miles, if it didn't it would still be worth what it cost new. The way I look at it I would rather spend a lot of money on my car that I got kinda rough than spend $15 on an oil change if I had a Kia. Shops are such a rip I wonder how anyone who can't work on a car can afford to drive one, it pisses me off. If you really like the car get it, buy a Haynes and a cheap set of tools. Then do some work on it, when it needs it. my 2c It sounds like it's a lot better off than mine and I paid $2500.
02 WRX Sedan, 5mt
93 Sport Sedan, 5mt
93 Sport Sedan, 5mt
I agree.....but not everyone is mechanically inclined enough to do the work that we find extremely easy. For example, changing the oil on a subaru is about the easiest thing in the world ( a little more difficult now that my car's lowered) 15 minutes....and that's me taking my sweet old time.-K- wrote:Ok, I'm going to jump in here. The shop you took it to is out to screw you. End of story. Any older car in the $2000 price range is going to need some work or have twice the miles, if it didn't it would still be worth what it cost new. The way I look at it I would rather spend a lot of money on my car that I got kinda rough than spend $15 on an oil change if I had a Kia. Shops are such a rip I wonder how anyone who can't work on a car can afford to drive one, it pisses me off. If you really like the car get it, buy a Haynes and a cheap set of tools. Then do some work on it, when it needs it. my 2c It sounds like it's a lot better off than mine and I paid $2500.
However to other people, they would be loss. It all stems from the right brain, left brain thing, and your thought process. I can look at something, my brain can decipher how it works, and all that stuff. To other people, they see a mess of shit.
It goes the other way too. Take art, the metal heap of crap in the middle of the art museum. To me it just looks like a bunch of metal pieces welded together to form a piece of crappy metal. To me, I'd be more interested in the quality of the welds or how much money I could get for the scrap metal, then what it looks like as a piece of art.
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
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rallysam
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HahahahahaLegacy777 wrote: It goes the other way too. Take art, the metal heap of crap in the middle of the art museum. To me it just looks like a bunch of metal pieces welded together to form a piece of crappy metal. To me, I'd be more interested in the quality of the welds or how much money I could get for the scrap metal, then what it looks like as a piece of art.
'00 Impr RS - sold
'91 Legacy Turbo 5MT - mothballed
13psi, TurboXS TBE, WRX IC, Hallman MBC, TurboXS FCD, KYB AGX, Phil's STI seat, SPT short shifter, David Carter hood, Zeitronix widebandO2, Kuhmo rally tires, STI IC spray, thanks:gearboxtech.com
'91 Legacy Turbo 5MT - mothballed
13psi, TurboXS TBE, WRX IC, Hallman MBC, TurboXS FCD, KYB AGX, Phil's STI seat, SPT short shifter, David Carter hood, Zeitronix widebandO2, Kuhmo rally tires, STI IC spray, thanks:gearboxtech.com
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vrg3
- Vikash
- Posts: 12517
- Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 2:13 am
- Location: USA, OH, Cleveland (sometimes visiting DC though)
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Heh, yeah, Josh, I agree with you. But, I also think that almost anybody who takes the responsibility to drive a car should be willing to learn how it works. This is a general statement, so it can't apply to every case, but I believe that to be a responsible driver you need to understand your car. There are times when you need mechanical sympathy for the engine or drivetrain in order to keep the car running, and there are times when you may have no choice other than to try to fix your car yourself or wait hours for a tow truck. Self-reliance is important.
Most of the things you do on a car aren't a big deal; it's confusing and scary at first but the systems are generally pretty simple, especially on our cars. Changing oil involves three threaded fasteners -- the drain plug, crankcase filler, and oil filter. Changing struts involves a few more -- the three top mount studs, the two bolts on the hub, the one locknut on the top, and the use of spring compressors. If you take time to read about it beforehand, and take your time while doing the job, it is something you should be able to do. It's on a very different level from something like an engine overhaul, a transmission swap, or even a head gasket replacement.
My 2 cents...
Most of the things you do on a car aren't a big deal; it's confusing and scary at first but the systems are generally pretty simple, especially on our cars. Changing oil involves three threaded fasteners -- the drain plug, crankcase filler, and oil filter. Changing struts involves a few more -- the three top mount studs, the two bolts on the hub, the one locknut on the top, and the use of spring compressors. If you take time to read about it beforehand, and take your time while doing the job, it is something you should be able to do. It's on a very different level from something like an engine overhaul, a transmission swap, or even a head gasket replacement.
My 2 cents...
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DiscPhilosopher
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well I was still interested in the car. In light of your comments I would probably have got the car anyway if it were not for the fact that it went to a dealership auction on tuesday. I did do some research on the prices firstone gave me and they are ridiculous. But unfortunetly they were able to BS me for just long enough for the car to leave the market. 
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FrmRgz2Rchz
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rallysam
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You WANT to pay them a visit? I thought everyone agreed they were ripping him off?
'00 Impr RS - sold
'91 Legacy Turbo 5MT - mothballed
13psi, TurboXS TBE, WRX IC, Hallman MBC, TurboXS FCD, KYB AGX, Phil's STI seat, SPT short shifter, David Carter hood, Zeitronix widebandO2, Kuhmo rally tires, STI IC spray, thanks:gearboxtech.com
'91 Legacy Turbo 5MT - mothballed
13psi, TurboXS TBE, WRX IC, Hallman MBC, TurboXS FCD, KYB AGX, Phil's STI seat, SPT short shifter, David Carter hood, Zeitronix widebandO2, Kuhmo rally tires, STI IC spray, thanks:gearboxtech.com
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DiscPhilosopher
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- Location: Columbus, Ohio
that firestone is on main street in reynoldsburg. I dont have to worry about going there again cuz I live in OSU area, I just took the car there cuz that is the area it was being sold in. By the way doing a little math it looks like for labor it was 7 hours at $70 an hour to replace the struts. Again thanks for all the help guys
Shops are huge rip offs. I work on my car only on my own. Even the Subaru mechanics that I worked with at the dealership for 8 mo. wanted to charge me 2.5 hrs. labor at $75per to change my front right control arm. I changed it with a trip to Checker because of my lack of a 19mm wrench in the middle, with no Haynes manual and no previous experience changing one in less than two hours. Also a $20 2 ton jack and a $20 wrench set. Mechanic work is big business these days.
I went to one shop to get an estimate for some GR2s. It was a respectable looking shop off Havana and Iliff in Denver. They quoted me over $800 for all four. I knew what I could order just the parts online for so turned and got the hell out of there.
I went to one shop to get an estimate for some GR2s. It was a respectable looking shop off Havana and Iliff in Denver. They quoted me over $800 for all four. I knew what I could order just the parts online for so turned and got the hell out of there.
Grant Hughes
Denver, CO
http://www.nocoastmotorsports.net
Denver, CO
http://www.nocoastmotorsports.net