Whiteline Anti Lift Kit

[georryan]

Well, I decided to try these guys out. So I bought a pair off of http://www.subaruwrxparts.com. It was the cheapest deal I'd found so far. They were 150 for the pair.

Description:

The kit basically adds .5 degrees of castor and helps to keep your car from lifting while accelerating and dipping while decelerating. It also helps turn in response.

For install notes and tools needed see below.

Impressions:

Whiteline says that there is an increase in NVH (noise vibration and harshness), but at first I didn't notice any at all. Now that I've driven on them for a few days i have to say that I do notice it. On smooth roads it isn't bad. Going over speed bumps isn't that bad either. I think the biggest notice is the minor bumps in the road and changing lanes while going over cats eyes on the free way or street. There is a bit of a more solid feel now, and a more solid thump as you go over stuff. The large stuff isn't so bad cause the suspension takes it, but the smaller stuff is what you feel. All in all, it isn't that bad. If you already get a lot of creaks, expect some more. My car was pretty solid in that area before, so now it is a little worse, but not bad.

I did notice that the nose of my car is more planted in acceleration and braking. It doesn't dip or raise as much as it used to.

The biggest effect that I noticed, though was the turn in response while cornering. There is a considerable loss in understeer. So in other words, less understeer with this kit. I took a 20 mph corner at a good clip and was off the gas at the entry, and floored it just as I started to come to the apex. I wanted to see how it would take the corner. I was amazed at how much more the car turned into the corner. It was definately noticable. I'm on stock springs with gr-2 struts, so I had some body sway, but the car was planted. I also lost all tire squeel/noise once I hit the gas. Normally if I took that corner as fast as I did, I'd hear some sort of noise through the whole turn. I'm running Pirelli PZero Nero M + S's as well, and the grip nicely, so I was pushing the car pretty hard through that one turn. Needless to say, the kit impressed me in that department. I think with better suspension, you'd see even better results.

Would I do it again? Yeah, I think so. The NVH isn't exactly making me jump for joy, but it is a minor inconvenience compared to what I am getting out of the kit.

Install:

Tools needed:
breaker bar (optional, I didnt need it)
torque wrench that can go to 180 ft-lbs (max torque recommened by Whiteline)
22 mm socket (removal of arm to bushing bolts)
24 mm socket (new arm to bushing bolts, supplied)
19 mm socket (all bushing to frame bolts)
extension (helpful)
ratchet
screwdriver (optional for prying)
hammer(same as above, I used the handle to pry)
(rag recommended)

Removal -
The install was quite easy. It is only 3 bolts for each side. Two that hold the rear control arm bushing up to the frame and one bolt to allow it to slide off the back of the control arm. The hardest part was getting the passenger side off. The mt crossmember gets in the way a bit as does my CES exhaust. The twin dump dp makes the thing a bit wider and gets in the way of the bushing coming off. I was able to get it off with some careful prying with a screwdriver.

Install -
The install on the driver's side was cake. The passenger side was a bit tougher than the removal, but I was able to do it without removing anything. Some careful prying with a screwdriver really helped in that area as well. The big problems were torquing the bolts on the back of the control arm that holds the bushing in. Because it is so close to the frame, I was unable to get my torque wrench with a socket in there, so I torqued it down to spec before putting weight on the wheels.

The whiteline paper said to keep everything loose and let the car sit its full weight on the wheels and then torque it down. I did that with the bushing to frame bolts, but not the bushing to arm bolts. What I DID do was put up a 24 mm box end wrench on the end of the end of the bolt after it was on the ground and tried to put my weight on it. Since I'm sitting at 160 right about now, and wasn't able to budge it, I figured I was ok. Whiteline wanted those bolts to be at 140 ft-lbs.

The big hitch for me was the bushing to fame bolts. They were said to be torqued to 184 ft-lb. I was able to get one to 180. The two on the driver's side of the car I was only able to get to about 160 because of the way I was laying under the car. I wasn't able to get much of a better angle either. The inside bolt on the passenger side came out with its threads flattened. So I got another bolt from a mechanic and tried for a good while to get it to go in straight. After it started to get tough I backed it out and noticed that the threads were starting to flatten there too, so I tried for a while longer to get it in correctly and ended up giving up. I got it in, but I didn't torque it down to any insane amount for fear I'd ruin somehing. It is over 100 ft-lbs and talking to the mechanic, he thought I should be just fine.

-Ryan

[Legacy777]

Actually, the stock suspension has anti-dive geometry built into it. The anti lift kit removes that anti-dive geometry.

Here's a blurb from whiteline, I emailed with them a while back about this

"Stock Subaru has some "anti" geometry in the front suspension. There is some anti-lift during acceleration and anti-dive under braking.
ALK kit removes most of this "anti" geometry. The car will now actually lift more in the front during acceleration, and may dive a little more during braking but this is not seen (and tested) to be of a problem. It does NOT promote dive under braking."

[georryan]

Wow, I didn't know that. I have to say that I don't see that. On the other hand, I'm changing stock parts for polyurethane parts, so, go figure.

I was reading the review on whiteline's site for the kit when it was put on the liberty and decided to try it.

I still think it is worth it even for the turn in response, but I sappose you could get that from better suspension and swaybars anyway.

[Legacy777]

I really have been torn about it. I'd like to try it, but I'm still warry about any added dive under braking.

I have purchased the sti mounts, and plan to put them on when I do my motor and stuff. I suppose if I get antsy and want to try them, I'll sell the sti mounts if I like the ALK better.

Other tid bit, the ALK puts you into some modified super dooper class or some shit if you autocross. Really doesn't matter in my case, considering there's about 10 other things on my car that put me in that class.

[georryan]

LOL, well I sappose if I get the things done to my car by november that I want done, it won't matter for me either.

Honetly, I had more dive under braking with the stock arm mounts than I do with the alk's. Like I said, though, they were stock and had 200k miles on them.

By sti mounts do you mean the control arm mounts, or engine/tranny mounts? I'd keep the engine/tranny mounts. I would say that the NVH increase going to the alk was very similar to the NVH increase going from the stock mounts to the sti engine/tranny mount.

[georryan]

I think my wrx brake upgrade would put me up a class in autox as well. I've heard that it doesn't take much to take you out of the stock class to racing with wrx's.

[Legacy777]

These guys

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... P_4746.JPG
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... P_4747.JPG
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... P_4748.JPG

[georryan]

Nice, those look sweet. They look like they'd be softer than the whitelines as well.

[TheSubaruJunkie]

You know what takes care of all the NVH for me? Two 10" subs, 6x9's in the front and 1050 watts of total amperage

Sounds like your car is comming along nicely. My RX is making a bunch of noise, and the turbo is tired and failing.

-Brian

[georryan]

well I plan for the springs,struts, tranny rebuild, flywheel,clutch, turbo and intercooler to all be added/changed by november, but we'll see.

[vrg3]

The car ... may dive a little more during braking ... It does NOT promote dive under braking."

Huh?

[Legacy777]

Nice, those look sweet. They look like they'd be softer than the whitelines as well.

WL makes a comfort(softer) bushing to help with NVH. Did you get that one or the standard one?

Don't underestimate the stiffness of the sti rubber bushings. They can be rather stiff

[Legacy777]

The car ... may dive a little more during braking ... It does NOT promote dive under braking."

Huh?

Since the "anti" geometry has been removed from the suspension, with the same braking & weight forces, the car may see the nose dive more then it did with the "anti" geometry.

The statement about the fact it does not promote dive under braking I think is just them saying, it's not designed to make the car dive.

That statement though is what has held me back in purchasing the ALK. It may not be designed to promote diving, but it's designed to remove suspension geometry that helps prevent it, (as well as lifting).

That help...or make things more confusing?

[georryan]

I got the standard ones. The other bushings were like an extra 30 bucks or something.

I don't doubt the sti ones are stiff.

As far as loss of built in anti lift, well, like I said, I changed out 200k mile stock parts, but the result was very noticable. If in fact the anti lift of the oem parts is that good, then the one benefit from the alk would be the turn in response.

[scottzg]

seen this?

http://www.whiteline.com.au/articles/Ef ... 0ALK_b.pdf


I got to fun run a stock wrx with an alk about a year ago, and have some seat time in a buddys completely stock wrx. The extra dive really isn't a problem (its hardly noticable) but being able to put more power down earlier in a tight turn is a real benefit.

Its hard to nail a threshold brake, but easy to modulate the exit power.

I haven't installed an alk on my car because
1) i don't really have the money to throw around and
2) I don't think the benefit is worthwhile on my 130hp car. It is a much more significant benefit with more power.


Thats just my amateur impressions, but i hope its helpful.

[Legacy777]

As far as loss of built in anti lift, well, like I said, I changed out 200k mile stock parts, but the result was very noticable. If in fact the anti lift of the oem parts is that good, then the one benefit from the alk would be the turn in response.

It's not really built in anti-lift......it's "anti geometry" The anti-geometry helps resist diving and lift.

[georryan]

Ah ok, well the geometry wasn't working so well with my old parts.

[NICO]

i had them in my legacy i think they helped out then i tried them in my impreza and had to take them out becuse it made a mess in driving it hard to explian.

anyone want them for a trade or sell them.

[georryan]

Someone might want them Nico, put them up for sale i the parts forum. Most people may not see your offer here.

[BAC5.2]

I'm running Noltec Camber/Castor plates up front, and I must say that extra castor is sweet.

I am running max castor, but haven't had a good chance to align the car yet. I'd guess about 1.5 degrees over stock.

Turn-in is INSANE. It's really cool. Espically in the gravel, I noticed that I had a bit more turn-in control while going ridiculously fast in the dirt. On the street, the car is even more prone to oversteer when really pushed. Kinda nice.

[azn2nr]

wow thoes noltecs look pretty cool. i wonder if they will work on coilovers.

[BAC5.2]

They should, it depends on the coilover.

I should be picking up some coilovers, and hopefully I'll be able to use them up front. I know you can't change the rear camber plates from a set of Teins for a GC chassis, to the coilovers for a GD chassis (using GC tops on a GD assembly).

But there might be a way. Most coilovers worth anything come with CAMBER plates, but it's rare to find any with castor adjustment.

I'm running 4 degrees of castor, by the way. Almost double the stock maximum.