Scotty's Tranny Cocktail - the Magic Synchro Fix (Maybe not)

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jezzarisky
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uncle scotty's cocktai

Post by jezzarisky » Thu May 29, 2008 12:46 pm

I've been looking around nasioc and ran across the cocktail because i was in need of something to help ease my tranny after long freeway drives second likes to make noise, i was starting to think that it had straight engine oil in it, and after draining out the old fluid, i have a feeling it probably was, albeit i couldn't tell for sure since my cousin just changed his before mine in his honda (which had gear lube when its supposed to have motor oil) and so it still stunk from that. and the magnetic drain plug had a HUGE amount of metal shavings on it, a good 1/8-1/4" of shavings/oil stuff, im not thinking thats a particularly good thing...
But i replaced whatever was in my tranny for lw shockproof, penn synchromesh (i couldnt find anything good around here to replace that with) one of AMSoil 80W-90 and half of the castrol hypoy-c.
as a whole my tranny is alot smoother, it still grinds in second sometimes, but i figure thats from alot of abuse of the 160,000+ miles on the car, and where as it makes a great buffer for high stress, and normal driving, it doesnt fix damaged synchros
-Jezza
"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."
--Mahatma Ghandi
~'93 N/A Subaru Legacy Sdn. FWD :'(

Dynamic Entry
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Post by Dynamic Entry » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:23 am

I am on board with the cocktail. It did a lot for my transmissions happiness and my happiness

It is not even expensive.

*edit* see below
Last edited by Dynamic Entry on Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Andrew

02 WRB WRX
93 White SS "Angel": 4EAT to 5MT 550 Robtune !SOLD!
̶9̶2̶ ̶W̶i̶n̶e̶s̶t̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶S̶S̶ ̶5̶M̶T̶ R.I.P.

Soul Shinobi
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Post by Soul Shinobi » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:33 pm

I am certainly off the cocktail bandwagon now. I've had it for a while, it helped for a little bit, and I still don't get grinds but now the shifting is slow and crunchy. I've had it for over 6,000 miles.

DS1 Motorsports on NASIOC rebuilds gearboxes for a living and has said that the cocktail causes accelerated wear, and that when he gets trannies in that have had it and are below 40 degrees F he has to scoop the yogurt-like cocktail out with a spoon. He recommends the following oils:

-Subaru Extra-S (can only be bought in a 5 gallon tub, but you dealer can order it for themselves and change your fluid)
-Valvoline 75w90 Synthetic (many people have been happy with the nonsynthetic as well)
-Motul Gear 300 (best protection, but pricey)
-Amsoil Severe Gear 75w90

Side note: Also he mentioned not to use Kart Boy shifters, it can cause rear seal leaks, stick with Subaru short shifters.

I've taken the time to compile posts by DS1 on the cocktail for you so you don't have to plow through the 80+ page thread on NASIOC:
DS1 Motorsports wrote:You should really see what the "cocktail" does to the inside of a trans. :(

I rebuild about 5-6 transmissions a week and can tell you this stuff is bad news to the internals of a 5mt.

If you have a grind while shifting try Subaru Extra-S fluid or Valvoline 75w90 synthetic before anything else.

If neither one of these fixes your issue you probably have a mechanical issue which no fluid is going to fix.
DS1 Motorsports wrote:Well you can tell pretty easily when you get a trans open by how the fluids will actually separate from the mixture. I usually ask my customers once I see this. The mix's exact % of which fluids is one variable that I see often, usually to the majority of shock proof or syncromesh.

The wear is pretty uniform through these transmissions even though the customers are a wide diversity of enthusiast from Auto-X to Drag and even stock cars. Most of them put it in after reading a variety of threads stating "smoother shifting, eliminates grinds, quieter operation"

The wear is seen on the cone surface of the gear and the matching face of the baulk ring. When these 2 surfaces wear excessively the friction needed to sustain the synchronizing action lessens and you start to get excessive wear on the cone surfaces and the alignment tabs on the out side of the baulk ring due to the slider on the hub now trying to engage the next gear with out it having been spun up to the proper speed to mesh smoothly.

As for the last ditch effort thing you are correct, the most common one of those is the broken 3rd gear double synchronizer. The guys will break it, then try everything possible to fix it without having the trans rebuilt. :lol:

Most of the transmissions I see are for either a blown gear or a syncro issue. I see the same wear on the syncros in both cases when the cocktail was used for a length of time.
DS1 Motorsports wrote:The shockproof really gels up in cold weather.
DS1 Motorsports wrote:Average mileage I saw wear with the cocktail was about 3-6k. The way the fluids separate inside the trans I honestly couldn't tell you that any amount of time is safe.
DS1 Motorsports wrote:I've been a technician for 15+ years now and have worked for Toyota, Honda, and Subaru and currently own my own Subaru shop for the last 5 years.

I've done Honda's for over 10 years and only run Honda MTF or NEO oil in them including my customer's 610whp 00' Si. The difference between Honda and Subaru is Honda uses coated brass baulk rings, Subaru doesn't. This is where synromesh does it's damage. :(

The high sulfur content in syncromesh eats brass (simple chemistry). As the brass erodes from the friction surface of the baulk ring, the load surface becomes smaller and smaller and wears faster and faster till finally failure occurs. :(
DS1 Motorsports wrote:The combination of fluids is something Subaru says specifically not to do in the 5mt. The syncromesh is bad for the brass baulk rings. The shockproof turns to jello in the cold and separates from the other oils in the cocktail.
Hypo C is old school oil and belongs in my dad's ford 9" rear end :wink: It doesn't hold up very well to high rpm use.
DS1 Motorsports wrote:The Hypoid-C has a different additive package, it will meet GL-5, but the friction modifiers in it are different than what Subaru uses. As for the Redline shockproof, I've literally had to scoop it out (like pudding) of a 6mt case when it was cold. The trans had been transported in the back of at truck to me the outside temp was about 3deg. F. and even in the time it took me to disassemble the case it was still like pudding. :(
DS1 Motorsports wrote:syncromesh is formulated for transmissions that use ATF or regular motor oil (GM,Ford,Honda,etc), it doesn't have the lubrication qualities that regular gear lube does. As for the stink, you should see what happens when they burn up :( :lol:
DS1 Motorsports wrote:I do spend most of my days with my hands stuck in broken 5mt's. The way I gauge the different effects fluids on transmissions is by noting the different wear characteristics on the individual parts and then comparing them to the other boxes I see running the same fluids. I see the same breakdown of the baulk rings in almost every trans I see running the cocktail. It's not a normal wear issue like I see in boxes running normal 75w90 oils. Some wear on these rings is normal and yes the higher the mileage the more wear occurs. The issue in the transmissions I see running the cocktail is the type of wear, it's not the normal even wear on the cones and rings. The wear in the cocktail transmissions always share a tapered wear towards the center of the cone and when I check the cone and baulk ring for straightness they show a taper on the lower and upper sections.

A few Facts for this discussion:

The ingredients of GM Syncromesh:
1) "Severely solvent refined, solvent de-waxed, heavy parafinnic petroleum distillates"
Normal English: This is the "semi-synthetic" base oil. It is likely a GIII hydrocracked mineral oil. This is a better base oil than Honda's MTF, That does not mean it is not a better tranny lube, however.

2) "Benzene, C10-16 alkyl derivatives"
Normal English: Known as Benzenesulfonic acid, It is a surfactant, here used I would imagine to keep parts clean; it may also act as a carrier for the other ingredients.

3) "Methacrylic acid, copolymer of 'methyl' and 'lauryl' esters"
Normal English: Here is used as an ester oil. This is the synthetic part of the formulation, and is chemically representative of esters in general; highest resistance to heat degeneration, high detergency.

4) "Sulfonic acids, petroleum, magnesium salts"
Normal English: These are the friction modifiers - they may also play a part in friction reduction. This is the major issue

5) "Hydrotreated heavy parafinnic petroleum disitillates"
Normal English: Similar to #1, but not as purified - less 'severe'; could be somewhere between a GII and GIII.

6) "Zinc alkyl dithiophosphate"
Normal English: The is the famous ZDP, these compounds represent the best anti-wear technology yet developed.

The differences between GL-4 and GL-5 from the API.

3.2 API GL-4
The designation API GL-4 denotes lubricants intended for
axles with spiral bevel gears operating under moderate to severe
conditions of speed and load or axles with hypoid (see
note)gears operating under moderate speeds and loads.
These oils may be used in selected manual transmission and
transaxle applications where MT-1 lubricants are unsuitable.

3.3 API GL-5
The designation API GL-5 denotes lubricants intended for
gears, particularly hypoid gears, in axles operating
under various combinations of high-speed/shock load and
low-speed/high-torque conditions.

The reason I am in here telling people what I see is because it cost my customers more money to rebuild their transmissions because of the cocktail.
DS1 Motorsports wrote:Motul makes good stuff but it's pricey. :shock:

I'm testing out the Amsoil right now in my manual.

I like the Valvoline because it's inexpensive and effetive.
DS1 Motorsports wrote:I thought we had finally put this mess to bed, the cocktail is bad mechanically in your Subaru 5mt and even worse in your 6mt.

The fluids mixed together to create it all have their advantages but when combined they create a lubrication nightmare inside your 5mt.

Myself and Andrewtech probably do more gear boxes combined than any other Subaru performance shop in the country. We don't run this stuff for a reason.

If you do choose to run it just keep in mind that it breaks down faster (aka fluid changes every 7-10k miles) causes excessive wear on baulk rings (aka more expensive rebuilds) and will eventually cause bearing failure because of the viscosity differences in the different fluids.

If you have a grind in your transmission and you are running the proper fluid (75w90w Valvoline, Amsoil, Motul, Subaru Extra-S) then you have a mechanical issue. You need to have it repaired properly. If you continue to drive on it no matter how the fluid "makes it feel" you are just causing more damage.
DS1 Motorsports wrote:what I'm saying is the cocktail doesn't "fix" anything it just hides the underlying problem till it becomes catastrophic. :(
DS1 Motorsports wrote:extending the "usable life" of your transmission by using the cocktail will cost you double the normal repair bill on the back side so either way you pay.

There isn't a 4th gear issue, there is a 3rd gear syncro design flaw. The breakage of the center cone in the 3rd gear syncro pushes on the 3-4 hub causing 4th gear not to be able to engage properly. The cocktail doesn't fix anything it just covers up a severe parts failure.
DS1 Motorsports wrote:There is no fix for the design flaw, unless someone wants to start machining billet steel center cones. :)
DS1 Motorsports wrote:There is no fix for the flaw in the 3rd gear syncro unless one of our great machinist here on the NASIOC wants to start making billet center rings for them

PPG just replaces the double coned unit with a standard baulk ring to avoid the issue.
DS1 Motorsports wrote:I have noticed lately (month of June) (about 3 of the 4 boxes disassembled this week) that have had Shock proof in them have had a build up of the pudding I'm used to seeing only in cold weather. :shock:

It gathers on the inside of the out put shaft where the front pinion is housed and in the transfer case section under where 5th gear resides.

I'm going to start keeping a log of the boxes I disassemble to see if I can track specific part failures to certain fluids.
DS1 Motorsports wrote:The cocktail is band aid over a bullet wound :(
Original cocktail thread:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=920674

DS1 Motorsports posted on page 57 on.
Last edited by Soul Shinobi on Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.
-Nick
1992 BC Legacy L Sedan AWD 5MT 272,000 - Wish you the best
1998 BK Legacy L Wagon 5MT 234,000 miles - RIP
2002 SF Forester S Wagon 5MT 215,000 miles - Current winter sleigh
1986 FC Mazda RX-7 GXL Coupe 5MT 155,000 miles - Summer cruiser

Dynamic Entry
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Post by Dynamic Entry » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:49 pm

Whoa.

Damn, I am always one step behind.
Andrew

02 WRB WRX
93 White SS "Angel": 4EAT to 5MT 550 Robtune !SOLD!
̶9̶2̶ ̶W̶i̶n̶e̶s̶t̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶S̶S̶ ̶5̶M̶T̶ R.I.P.

Soul Shinobi
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Post by Soul Shinobi » Thu Jul 03, 2008 7:51 pm

I'm going to swap out the cocktail soon with cheapo Coastal 75W90 to rinse the tranny, then I'm buying a tub of Subaru Extra-S to share with friends. I'll keep you updated.
-Nick
1992 BC Legacy L Sedan AWD 5MT 272,000 - Wish you the best
1998 BK Legacy L Wagon 5MT 234,000 miles - RIP
2002 SF Forester S Wagon 5MT 215,000 miles - Current winter sleigh
1986 FC Mazda RX-7 GXL Coupe 5MT 155,000 miles - Summer cruiser

Adam West
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Post by Adam West » Thu Jul 03, 2008 8:50 pm

Thanks for posting. Didn't know that about the degradation of parts and the fluids.

However did know this...

<<what I'm saying is the cocktail doesn't "fix" anything it just hides the underlying problem till it becomes catastrophic.>>

Basically don't do this if you have a NEW tranny or one working properly.

For example I swapped Redline in my perfectly good low miles 99GT tranny. It did NOT like it at all so I went back to dyno oil. Been happy ever since...took like a week to figure out.

Yes, this is a bandaid. Still working tho. 10k miles and counting...
93SS 5MT White, TD05-16G, TMIC, 3"Turboback, Magnaflow, Alu Rad, H&R Sports, AGX struts, F/R STBs, Whiteline Sways, ALK+Endlinks, Odyssey 925, AC delete, Evo8 Recaros, Sparco 4p, 3.9 LSD, Hellas+air horns, IPD short throw, 99RSrims, s03's

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Post by Adam West » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:06 pm

BTW, let's not reproduce the debate here. But I do recommend reading the thread on NABISCO if only for sheer entertainment value.

Real question: hadn't heard of Subaru Extra-S before. So ignorant and wondering if someone could point us in the right direction to the specs/link etc.

Thanks in advance,

AW
93SS 5MT White, TD05-16G, TMIC, 3"Turboback, Magnaflow, Alu Rad, H&R Sports, AGX struts, F/R STBs, Whiteline Sways, ALK+Endlinks, Odyssey 925, AC delete, Evo8 Recaros, Sparco 4p, 3.9 LSD, Hellas+air horns, IPD short throw, 99RSrims, s03's

Soul Shinobi
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Post by Soul Shinobi » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:17 pm

Subaru Extra-S (part number K0322AA093) is a new formulation by Subaru. It's mineral (dyno oil), not synthetic as some believe, and is said to work rather well due to its Subaru specific additive packages. You can order it though most Subaru parts places and dealerships, but you can also request a dealer order it for their own use if you have them change your fluid.

It currently comes in a 5.28 gallon (20 Liter) bucket good for 5.4 fluid changes. I've heard that due to its recent popularity Subaru is considering packaging it in quart sized containers.

It costs around $130, the cheapest I've found it shipped is about $150 here: http://www.thekingofparts.com/servlet/D ... s=ebb5601b (site temporarily offline as of posting).
-Nick
1992 BC Legacy L Sedan AWD 5MT 272,000 - Wish you the best
1998 BK Legacy L Wagon 5MT 234,000 miles - RIP
2002 SF Forester S Wagon 5MT 215,000 miles - Current winter sleigh
1986 FC Mazda RX-7 GXL Coupe 5MT 155,000 miles - Summer cruiser

Dynamic Entry
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Post by Dynamic Entry » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:35 pm

thats good to know and I might buy one of those barrels.

$130 doesn't seem bad to me since I spent $80 on 4 quarts of full synthetic, hated it, then spent about $40 on the cocktail and now need it out

Real Q: does oil degrade over time? ie - if it takes me two or three years to go through it will it be ruined?

maybe STiPro will want to co-buy this with me....
Andrew

02 WRB WRX
93 White SS "Angel": 4EAT to 5MT 550 Robtune !SOLD!
̶9̶2̶ ̶W̶i̶n̶e̶s̶t̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶S̶S̶ ̶5̶M̶T̶ R.I.P.

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Post by Soul Shinobi » Thu Jul 03, 2008 9:53 pm

Yes, oil does in fact degrade over time, however, it depends on its complexity. Roughly 3 or 4 years would be pushing it for some that you've opened (new unopened oil can last 5 years). It may be less for Extra-S because I assume it's rather complex, and you're going to have opened it before.

Make sure you store it in a cool dry place, sealed up as best as you can after using it, in which case I think using it 2 years later would be fine.

I'm sure you could find other Subaru owners around that'll be willing to shell out the $30 to $40 for some.
-Nick
1992 BC Legacy L Sedan AWD 5MT 272,000 - Wish you the best
1998 BK Legacy L Wagon 5MT 234,000 miles - RIP
2002 SF Forester S Wagon 5MT 215,000 miles - Current winter sleigh
1986 FC Mazda RX-7 GXL Coupe 5MT 155,000 miles - Summer cruiser

Dynamic Entry
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Post by Dynamic Entry » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:23 pm

quite right, local Wrx guys would co-buy

and I could charge them heaps more and not even feel bad about it
Andrew

02 WRB WRX
93 White SS "Angel": 4EAT to 5MT 550 Robtune !SOLD!
̶9̶2̶ ̶W̶i̶n̶e̶s̶t̶o̶n̶e̶ ̶S̶S̶ ̶5̶M̶T̶ R.I.P.

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Post by Adam West » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:24 pm

It wouldn't even have to BE oil that you sold them! <grin>
93SS 5MT White, TD05-16G, TMIC, 3"Turboback, Magnaflow, Alu Rad, H&R Sports, AGX struts, F/R STBs, Whiteline Sways, ALK+Endlinks, Odyssey 925, AC delete, Evo8 Recaros, Sparco 4p, 3.9 LSD, Hellas+air horns, IPD short throw, 99RSrims, s03's

ciper
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Post by ciper » Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:53 pm

Adam West wrote:It wouldn't even have to BE oil that you sold them! <grin>
A good way to dispose of the scottys cocktail? lol

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Post by Legacy777 » Sun Jul 06, 2008 5:45 am

I've got cheapo oil in the impreza now, and it's possible that the cocktail enhanced a problem I already had.

I need to get the cocktail out of the legacy. I may consider buying the Subaru oil. I haven't had a chance to check price on the Motul oil.

BTW, I drained the cocktail out of the impreza into a gallon milk jug. You can see the separation of the oils, primarily the shockproof & 80w90 syn oil I used as a "base".
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm

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Post by Legacy777 » Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:45 am

I was wrong.....there are three separate phase separations. See for yourself.

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... /cocktail/
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm

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Post by Soul Shinobi » Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:55 am

Holy f--king sh-t. Would you mind if I post those to NASIOC??

EDIT: How long did you have that in?
-Nick
1992 BC Legacy L Sedan AWD 5MT 272,000 - Wish you the best
1998 BK Legacy L Wagon 5MT 234,000 miles - RIP
2002 SF Forester S Wagon 5MT 215,000 miles - Current winter sleigh
1986 FC Mazda RX-7 GXL Coupe 5MT 155,000 miles - Summer cruiser

Legacy777
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Post by Legacy777 » Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:01 am

No I don't mind you posting it on Nasioc.....just credit me for the pics, and mention the car & mileage.

It was in my 1997 Impreza Outback Sport for 7,156 miles. So not too long at all.

I'm going to try and get some better photos tomorrow in the day time. I'll add them to that page when/if I do.
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm

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Post by Soul Shinobi » Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:17 am

Booya, done. Here's a link to satisfy your curiosity. Thank you very much.
-Nick
1992 BC Legacy L Sedan AWD 5MT 272,000 - Wish you the best
1998 BK Legacy L Wagon 5MT 234,000 miles - RIP
2002 SF Forester S Wagon 5MT 215,000 miles - Current winter sleigh
1986 FC Mazda RX-7 GXL Coupe 5MT 155,000 miles - Summer cruiser

ciper
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Post by ciper » Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:45 am

Can we change the name of this thread to "Scotty's Tranny Cocktail - Don't use it"

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Post by Adam West » Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:20 pm

Uh, don't you think this would be mixed in the mixer? i.e. the tranny? If not, why not...
93SS 5MT White, TD05-16G, TMIC, 3"Turboback, Magnaflow, Alu Rad, H&R Sports, AGX struts, F/R STBs, Whiteline Sways, ALK+Endlinks, Odyssey 925, AC delete, Evo8 Recaros, Sparco 4p, 3.9 LSD, Hellas+air horns, IPD short throw, 99RSrims, s03's

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Post by Legacy777 » Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:54 pm

Added a few more pictures in the daylight.

Sure it'll be mixed up in the transmission, but the oils are kind of like oil and water, they will separate when left to sit. It's just not the best situation to have for an oil lubricating gears.
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm

ciper
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Post by ciper » Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:39 pm

Adam West wrote:Uh, don't you think this would be mixed in the mixer? i.e. the tranny? If not, why not...
Remember the pictures he posted are from 7K mile old fluid.

Since the transmission is only splashed lubricated I'm doubtful it ever completely mixes.

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Post by Soul Shinobi » Mon Jul 14, 2008 5:20 pm

I've started a donation fund for the analysis of the cocktail, a used one versus an unused one, with TAN testing and sulfur testing. Help out if you can!

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... p=22967314
-Nick
1992 BC Legacy L Sedan AWD 5MT 272,000 - Wish you the best
1998 BK Legacy L Wagon 5MT 234,000 miles - RIP
2002 SF Forester S Wagon 5MT 215,000 miles - Current winter sleigh
1986 FC Mazda RX-7 GXL Coupe 5MT 155,000 miles - Summer cruiser

Adam West
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Post by Adam West » Mon Jul 14, 2008 6:11 pm

I don't understand this - please explain...

<<<Since the transmission is only splashed lubricated I'm doubtful it ever completely mixes.>>>

Thanks in advance for your patience.

AW
93SS 5MT White, TD05-16G, TMIC, 3"Turboback, Magnaflow, Alu Rad, H&R Sports, AGX struts, F/R STBs, Whiteline Sways, ALK+Endlinks, Odyssey 925, AC delete, Evo8 Recaros, Sparco 4p, 3.9 LSD, Hellas+air horns, IPD short throw, 99RSrims, s03's

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Post by BAC5.2 » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:52 am

If people would listen to me from the beginning, then all of this would have been put to rest. My very first transmission posts have been about the non-use of Uncle Scotty's Cocktail.

I even work at the shop DS1 mentions in their posts (and I spoke with Dylan and Jeff earlier today, though not about this issue).

Before I replaced my transmission, I put some 55k on 100% shockproof and the tranny shifted just fine the whole time. The internals of that transmission actually are in an RS right now that sees more auto-x action than almost anyone else.

The one thing I disagree with completely is the bit about Shockproof. It is outrageous to say that one fluid wears a gear differently than any other fluid. Not only that, but to say that there is a buildup of "pudding" is ridiculous. I can't imagine another shop rebuilding more transmissions than we do (They claim 5 in one week, we usually double that), and not a single shockproof'd tranny has shown any kind of failure like they are claiming. To that end, we've also never had to "scoop pudding out with a spoon". It's never happened. It's the one fluid that works better than any other fluid, and we've been using it for years. We use a LOT of Shockproof and I have yet to have a single complaint from any of the transmissions we suggest running it in. If it grinds with shockproof, you have a synchro too far gone to save by fluid means. I kid you not when I say we rebuild a lot of transmissions. I can tell you two things for sure. 1) Every case we open that has Shockproof and Motul in it shows no signs of separation. 2) Every car running the Shockproof/Motul combo has nothing but perfect feedback. I've yet to get a phone call saying that I recommended the incorrect fluid choice.

On a similar note, I have been adamantly against the use of Synchromesh in Subaru transmissions since the get-go. It's a fluid, while not API rated, is suggested for cars that otherwise use GL-4 fluids. After seeing what happens with GL-4 fluids in Subaru transmissions (shreded ring-and-pinion's within a few hundred miles), I'd never touch the stuff with a 10 foot pole.

Ciper - Define splash lubrication? I guarantee you that, whatever your definition, is not entirely correct. First and Second gear on the counter shaft relies SOLELY on a film of oil to spin. In fact, oil is forced out of lubricating holes in the bushing surfaces of 1st and 2nd on the counter shaft. FAR from splash only lubrication.
2009 Outback 2.5XT. 5MT. Satin White Pearl.
2009 Impreza 2.5i Premium. Blue.

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