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 Post subject: help a noob, circle track racing
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 12:17 am 
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hey there, im a 4 cyl circle track racer who comes from a toyota/nissan background. I just picked up a 95 legacy fwd 5speed to race at my local track. Looking for any help with this car as I am pretty unfamiliar with them as of today. The rules are pretty basic, with very little hardcore modding done. Only SOHC cars allowed. Alot of Neons,Early Preludes, and Mid 90's civics are the competion(for the most part). I should be the only Subaru. Basically, I'm looking for advice on any ecu chips available that have had success or failed??? MSD boxes used? Coils? Anything else would be greatly appreciatted. Only exterior bolt on mods are allowed, so throwing some different cams in, etc. would be extremely illegal. I'll pick your brains on suspension issues later. Thanks for helping a noob out!


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:00 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:55 pm
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Location: Nelson, New Zealand
get a turbo thats bolt on :) I can't help with the NA legacys, in my experience they don't have much to offer. Honda's rule in NA.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 2:10 am 
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Yeah i wish. Im more of a supercharger kinda guy:) By no means do i expect this car to go "real" fast. haha. But none of the cars do, even the hondas. It's the SOHC rule. Kinda keeps us honest. It feels like you can get going on a half mile track with 40 other cars pushing you, but the reality isn't that. Half of my dilemma will be weight reduction, as these cars even at 2700 lbs stock are pretty heavy. I'm gunna need to shed at least 600lbs which will be fun. Im not a car noob by any means, but I am to Subarus. The "numbers" ---hp,torque for the 2.2na seam comparable to the 1.6 honda na. I've been looking around for a little bigger radiator for it, but I must be looking in the wrong spots. Thanks again for any help.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 4:04 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:55 pm
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Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Are you allowed 4WD? that would help.

A late 80's Subaru leone 2 door would be
awesome. Very light and 1800cc. I did some mods to a NA one of them and it went alright.

Wish I could help, but I don't know much.

Sounds like heaps of fun!

Have a good one.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:04 pm 
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There aren't any ECU chips, but there's a product out there that does some modifications to the signals sent to the ECU. For some reason I can't think of the name of it, but I'm sure someone else can remember it.

The MSD DIS-2 is an upgrade to the stock ignition, and if you have a "diamond" branded coilpack, you're set. The DIS-2 was a nice upgrade for my old 93 turbo.

Your engine will have much better torque than any of the Hondas, and will compete will with the Nissans. A better, custom intake and some Borla headers, high-flow cat (if necessary) and 2.25" exhaust will also help power.

As for suspension, KYBs with Ground Control coilover sleeves might be a safe bet, or even an Outback suspenion conversion.

As for weight, well, you might not be able to get 600lbs off it, but if there are no restrictions with regards to interior, that's a big start. Sound deadening, seats, HVAC, stock cast-iron headers and exhaust, spare tire...it'll add up.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:03 pm 
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dlc, thank you for your reply. the interior will be completely gutted. everything will be gone. a small 6 point cage will be going back in. all the glass is out (the windshield will be plexi'd). i will make a small 6 gallon aluminum fuel cell custom to the sending unit assembly. by rules i cannot upgrade the fuel pump. the dash will get tossed. 600 lbs will be attainable i hope. I have to keep the car above 2200lbs with me in it, but as close to that as possible obviously.

Thank you for the head start in direction on the aftermarket parts. Thats exactly what i was hoping for. I am spying the borla header as I type. The exhaust will get clipped after the downpipe and extended to just past the B pillar and exit the passenger side. I have to muffler it, however i usually just stick a cheap cherry bomb type muffler on to "satisfy the rules".

How well(or poor) do these cars run with little backpressure?? Nissans need some or they drive like garbage. Toyotas can run open header and not bog down at all! hahaha.

I see that KOYO makes an aluminum radiator for auto trans models? Does anyone know if they make one for sticks? I'll email them i guess.

Thanks again guys, I'll stick some pictures up of the build as I start. First race is in May, and while I'm just fact finding right now, I want to start building come the end of February.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:50 pm 
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The radiator is the same for manual and auto, the only difference is the auto radiator has a tranny cooler in it, so just get one of those radiators and cap off the inlets for the tranny cooler

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 3:28 pm 
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Location: Whittemore MI
All the experiance I have had in it the suby will outperform most of the FWD cars out there
what type of track do you have dirt asphalt?
I run on asphalt 1/4 mile 16 degree banks
the hardest to keep up with is the front right side ....ball joint , wheel bearing, brakes ..rotor, and dont forget to reinforce the rim

as far as performance goes all I did was a K@N and lightweight underdrive pulley

she has never failed to be in the top 3 unless the right front breaks

btw I only got her thinned down to 2316 without me glass window

Good luck
keep me posted


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:46 am 
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Was yours a gen1 or gen2? the track this car will drive at is a 3/8 asphalt. its "high banked" although i'm not sure of the degree. they are steep. i find that tightening any car up real good helps with the front rights, somewhat anyways. Body roll is the worst thing to have to overcome especially on a pokey car to begin with. Does the car naturally push? thanks for any help. The car right now is under 2 feet of snow but once it melts its heading into the garage to begin stripping. Photos will be coming if interested.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2007 4:55 am 
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what kind of suspension mods are you allowed to run?
cheap tuning stuff would be wrx takeoff 20mm front bar, rubber spring helpers, different stock springs(see suspension information compendium), whiteline adjustable rear bar(not "cheap").
you can also make "custom valved" struts by changing the oil in some stock ones, drill a hole in them, drain stock oil, put same volume of heavier stuff in(motor oil?), tap the hole, put bolt in. this is highly unproven of course, friend of mine has tried it with limited success. DONT DO IT IF THE STRUTS STILL HAVE A GAS CHARGE, you could get hurt.
supposedly these cars are designed to push, mine doesnt(wagon springs; rear springs stiffer than front, heavier rear weight bias).

illegal power mods, you could get some cam regrinds from deltacams.com and nobody would ever know.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 1:39 am 
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i cannot lower the car at all(which sucks), and the struts must remain oem "type". That basically allows me to put in any non-adjustable strut i choose. I have read varying opinions on them in this forum allready. The stock ones are in horrible condition, so that will probably be the first thing I do. KYB's i guess? The strut bars and sway bars may increase in size from stock but may not adjust either. This is a gen2 1995 model remember, but being FWD, it is super bone stock bottom trim level. I would love more info on what parts (sway bars, etc) transfer over from gen 1 wrx's and other upper tier models. thanks again guys.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 1:29 am 
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Location: Whittemore MI
you shoud not find too much of a push off the start with it being stock alignment, but we are allowed up too an inch of camber, we have tipped all but the left rear and found much better handling.

I have a gen 1 ....1991 legacy L model gutted but left the dash at my track we are allowed to stock fuel tank if in front of rear axle, but we had to cover all brake and fuel lines in the passenger compartment. All said and done we turn about a 16.8 lap times

we are thinking about adding a 40lb lead block to the left rear to try to keep that tire to the pavement

Good luck and keep me posted as to how you end up

by the way we are running a 4eat trans with your 5 sp you might try going up to 15 inch rims to keep herr in the power band at the end of straights


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 8:39 am 
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hmm how about a lift block for the left rear strut if there is a problem with that tire coming off the ground?
also maybe you could modify the rear struts for camber bolts?
circle track racing is cool as shit. one of my teachers runs a mini stock that is based on old toyota 22R celica parts.(I guess its a celica thats had some extensive caging done or somehting like that) and the class uses takeoff tires from another class. track is in south wyoming or something.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:31 am 
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Celicas are where I come from. 22 series motors are the most indestructable 4 bangers ever made in my opinion. Bulletproof. Although my cars all had a newer 3sge in them(almost as good). but thats my past. I received my koyo radiator for the legacy today. By the way 206er I have a brother who works at Colo st. He sends me New Belgium decals i put on the fenders of my racers. I love Fort Collins.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:06 am 
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nice!
oh yeah- soobs like some back pressure.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 10:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2003 7:28 pm
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Location: lakewood, colorado
What can you do to the transmission. I think a OBX LSD($425) would be a great upgrade for a FWD legacy. It would help the car not push.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/OBX-LSD-HELICAL-02-06-SUBARU-IMPREZA-WRX_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33731QQihZ016QQitemZ260082303778QQrdZ1
-Max

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95 impreza Rally car. 3.0 H6
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 3:17 am 
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Location: Whittemore MI
If your racing where I think you are I see the first erace has been cancelled due to frozen pipes

good luck this season


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 6:13 am 
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i live in ny. the first race *should* be memorial day. the car is still in pieces as of right now. New clutch is in, so is the radiator. Struts will be the next chore....


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:37 pm 
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Location: Whittemore MI
Just wondering how things are going ..... they havent had are first race yet due too low car count. Seems like they dont like losing !

GOOD LUCK

KEEP POSTED


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 7:33 am 
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I was a DNS on memorial day. One of the first things I did was put a new clutch in and the car was fine until raceday. Car started slipping bad in warmup. So, I trailered it for the day, obviously. I have the car on stands right now, waiting on a 2nd flywheel. I bought one off eBay originally that didnt fit right. So thats where I am. One thing we don't have is a low car count. 35 cars for the first race. Next one is the 16th. I hope to have it rolling by then. I'm not gunna lie, this car hasnt been the easiest build Ive ever had. The clutch replacement was awful. Don't waste your time trying to get the passenger airbag out. Just punch the sensor. It isnt coming out any other way. The rear struts suck. And the worst part is a Civic won the race. I HATE HONDAS.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2007 4:00 pm 
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Location: Whittemore MI
you also might think about tipping rear cambers a little made a large difference in how ours handled. not sure how many laps you said you run up there , but here we run 100 laps ..... I can not tell you how much I stress about re-inforcing the right front rim!!!

GOOD LUCK!
8)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 18, 2007 11:49 pm 
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Location: Whittemore MI
We had a win here .......did you have any success


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:02 am 
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A win eh? Nice!

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:43 pm 
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im O for 2 so far. car still wasnt right as of saturday morning, so i sat out again. Good news is that as of monday night the car is absolutely *humming*. Everything came together. 2nd clutch/flywheel is in, dis-2 is in and I will be at open practice with it 2moro. I was lucky enough to come upon a 97 LSi with 30k at the junkyard, and i updated/refreshed alot of little things off of that. I'm upset im screwed now for season points but the car just wasnt right. I am as excited as I've ever been, the car looks good, sounds good, and feels much better than a couple weeks ago. I'm pumped. The next post will be a pic sometime over the w/e. good job on the win.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 22, 2007 8:53 am 
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Location: Whittemore MI
I wouldn't worry about points .... what you dont think others will break like you did!! just stay focused and find your groove with the car....where you can pass, how to to do the diamond on the track and most of all stay clear of trouble !! Those points will come in the end .........

GOOD LUCK


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