Some Auto-X Questions

Autocross, Rallycross, ProRally, Drag, WRC, F1 etc...

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livestrong14
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Some Auto-X Questions

Post by livestrong14 »

Hey guys,

This year will be my first competing in auto-x. I have a 91 SS with a EJ20G swap and a VF8 turbo. What do I need to upgrade first as far as suspension goes? Does anybody have any tricks for being competative in a sport sedan? I plan on racing in the novice class.

Any tips/suggestions are greatly appreciated!

Thanks,

-Devan
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Post by Imprezive »

Does this "Novice class" have any restrictions? I would assume it does. So you better find that stuff out first.
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Post by rallysam »

The sky's the limit with suspension for autoX, particularly since you've already modded yourself into the highest classes. IMO, I would race for a season to find out how obsessed you are and what classes to run BEFORE you decide whether to spend half a grand or a few grand. The more important thing is to get seat time anyway.

EXCEPT, if your struts are really old and blown, that'll suck. I might not wait a season before doing those - maybe just do a couple events then do something to replace blown shocks. Gr2 or AGX are not exactly a hard core autocrossing setup, but they are cheap, reliable, a bit stiff, and most importantly - newer then what you got. They could be a permanent solution if you're staying tame, or a holdover until you decide whether to invest in something serious.

Then again, what does "competitive" mean anyway? Regional? National? It's hard to actually be competitive, because everyone wants to be and there's only room for a few people at the top. Have fun. We're usually classed against STIs with mods greater than or equal ours, so let's focus on the fun part. 8)
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Post by livestrong14 »

That's what I'm all about man. Being slightly competitive with the WRX guys and just go out there to have fun! How important are sway bars and bushings as far as body roll goes?? What would you suggest in that department?
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Post by biggreen96 »

getting the car to rotate is a big concern in autox. And if youre doing this in Boise, they have smallish tight courses from my memory. I would look into fresh shocks, a rear bar, and some front camber adjustment be it bolts or plates.

If you don't have sticky tires then any suspension mod is a complete waste.
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Post by rallysam »

Yeah what he said. Sway bars are pretty helpful, but not quite as important as driver skill, tires, or fixing anything that's worn or broken.
'00 Impr RS - sold
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13psi, TurboXS TBE, WRX IC, Hallman MBC, TurboXS FCD, KYB AGX, Phil's STI seat, SPT short shifter, David Carter hood, Zeitronix widebandO2, Kuhmo rally tires, STI IC spray, thanks:gearboxtech.com
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Post by 555BCTurbo »

Devan, generally they only let you run novice for your first event...

I run in FSP, and honestly, Legacies are crappy autocross cars...I did place 2nd once, but it was in the rain, and I had quite a traction advantage

That said...Run low boost, because if you run 17psi like I did the car just gets away from you in slalom and tighter situations...

It will take probably 2 or 3 events before you really get into it, but it is fun and cheap, so go for it...


And Autocross is really all about driving...

I beat a WRX with a bunch of Prodrive bits on it at my first one, by like 6 seconds...and I was running 7psi

He were a bit pissed :lol:
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Post by livestrong14 »

lol, that's all I want to do! Just go out there and have fun. The most boost we are going to run is like 12 psi for drag racing. This summer we may bump it up a bit though.

For drag racing, How do you think my car would do with 12psi and a catless/desnorkled setup?
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Post by 555BCTurbo »

Probably a 14.5-14.7 with a good launch

Lemme know when you are gonna go dragging, I will surely have to come out and hopefully throw down some 13's :o
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Post by RallyRS »

I have done abit of AutoX in NZ. I beleive you want soft suspension with lots of travel and than fit swaybars front and back.

Having toe out (wheel alignment) front and back will make the car more sideways in the corner, which is great for autocross as tracks are normally tight (bad for rally!).

Subarus handle alot better in the corner with power on. Best to have a close ratio gearbox and stay one gear higher than you think, allowing you to stay on the gas without getting up too much speed. Also left foot braking helps to hold fast lines without going sideways and again allows you to stay on gas during corner.

AutoX is less about going sideways and more about picking fast driving lines as exit to corner is visible unlike rally.

Another handy thing to try is the rake of the car. Setting the ride height of the suspension higher in the back than the front can help to get more steering in the corner. When doing this use softer suspension in rear to ge good weight transfer on corner exit.

Just some things to think about.

Oh. And have lots of fun!

Cheers
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Post by jpimm2002 »

555BCTurbo wrote: I run in FSP, and honestly, Legacies are crappy autocross cars...I did place 2nd once, but it was in the rain, and I had quite a traction advantage
I would have to disagree with that. I think Legacies are perfectly capable of competing when properly set up. I don't think any of the cars in FSP are really capable of competing until you do a lot of suspension work.
555BCTurbo wrote: And Autocross is really all about driving...

I beat a WRX with a bunch of Prodrive bits on it at my first one, by like 6 seconds...and I was running 7psi

He were a bit pissed :lol:
Absolutely correct. About 90% of auto-x is in the driver.
RallyRS wrote: I have done abit of AutoX in NZ. I beleive you want soft suspension with lots of travel and than fit swaybars front and back.

Having toe out (wheel alignment) front and back will make the car more sideways in the corner, which is great for autocross as tracks are normally tight (bad for rally!).
Good points but I'm not too sure about the soft suspension. I think you want stiff suspension unless you are on really rough surfaces, but even in rallycross I don't think stiff suspension really hurts you all that much. Now if this is your daily driver and you want to keep it comfortable then soft suspension and stiff sway bars is probably the better choice.

From my experience you are going to want the stiffest sway bar you can get in the back to limit the understeer with these cars.

The two biggest improvements you can make are in practice and in tires(you will see a much bigger improvement in better tires than any other modifications).

Other than that just have fun and don't get discouraged. :-D
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Post by 555BCTurbo »

Jeremy is right...he does very well in his NA Legacy at the events I run at...


The large rear swaybar is a great idea, as it really helps Subarus rotate and eliminate understeer, which is my major problem.

Also Devan, you don't want to be running much boost...too much power is a total pain in autocross...at the last one I ran, I was putting much worse times down on 15 psi than I was at 7 psi...because by the time you finally get over the turbo lag, you are at the next corner and then have to deal with trying to slow the car down adequately.
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Post by jpimm2002 »

555BCTurbo wrote:because by the time you finally get over the turbo lag, you are at the next corner and then have to deal with trying to slow the car down adequately.
Turbo Lag is the exact reason I went with the NA ej25 when I could have gotten an ej20 from a WRX for the same price.

The fewer things you have to think about (and predict) while driving the more you can focus on driving and getting better times.
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Post by RallyRS »

The amount of PSI you run shouldnot effect your turbo lag. Whether you run 7psi or 15psi you would still reach 7 psi at the time same - probably faster on 15psi as wastegate would be shut at 7 psi.

I like the soft suspension as it is easier to throw the weight of the car around, hard suspension on a tight track is difficult to setup. But hard suspension is more responsive at speed and feels safer. Guess it depends on the track.

Im not racing at the moment as broken another gearbox (at an autocross). Running Anti-lag, lanuch control, VF23 turbo, 440cc injectors, drummond 60mm suspension and LSD's all round and its destroying gearboxes! Anyway I took some pictures of my local car club at the last autocross, check them out if you want http://teamfanging.spaces.live.com/ . I was in the yellow Misti Mirage as co-driver, its very very very fast! It has EVO3 engine and running gear and engine stoked out to 2.4L with every type of electronic horsepower adding thingy you can think of!

Some other pictures in there of my legacy, its the black and blue one.
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Post by livestrong14 »

Finally get to Auto-X this weekend! Can't wait! I promise to get some action shots up this time, now that one of my friends with a camera will be attending. Any tips? Tire pressure? Boost level? etc?

Thanks guys!
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Post by biggreen96 »

Awesome have fun this weekend. Tip: 1. find a helmet, the club ones can end up being passed around quite a bit between many drivers and many times you will end up running around trying to find one before your run. 2. Walk the course at least once and if its confusing, more. 3. They will "tech" the car before you race so make sure that there aren't things loose in the car(like my friend that forgets to take all the folding cars out of his trunk) My battery tie down was loose and they made me fix that before I ran. 4. Take every opportunity to ride with other people, they often approach things different and you will see different lines.

I just did my first of the season up in Spokane. OMG what a shit show I was. My Teins are in a very bad need of a rebuild so I was rocking 3 AGX's and a worn RS strut(front left) on stock springs along with the rear bar set on it's stiffest setting which was way too stiff, everybody was telling me that I was getting my inside rear way of the ground. But it was still a blast and the Kumho MX's kicked ass. I think Ill limit my boost next time too.
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Post by 555BCTurbo »

Low boost!!
Nick

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Post by Adam West »

How did this go? Did you win? Did you suck? Latter? AutoX = not as easy as it looks. Cheers!
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Post by jpimm2002 »

biggreen96 wrote:...with the rear bar set on it's stiffest setting which was way too stiff, everybody was telling me that I was getting my inside rear way of the ground.
Picking the rear tire off the ground is not a bad thing. bone stock wrx's will pick the inside rear tire off the ground. I have 325# springs on the front of my car and people can still see air under the inside rear on occasion. Unless you are having oversteer problems you don't need to soften the rear bar. Ever watched a VW Golf run? I'v seen as much as 8" of air under their rear tire.
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Post by livestrong14 »

Adam West wrote:How did this go? Did you win? Did you suck? Latter? AutoX = not as easy as it looks. Cheers!
forgot to mention!

kicked the crap out of everyone else in novice class. Beat a modded viper, 2 vette's, 1 mini cooper, 1 auti tt, 1 EVO, and a modded WRX.

Yay for the ol leggo!
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Post by AWD_addict »

Way to go, beating those newer models!

I've seen a couple vette's auto-X, they weren't great at all. I don't know if that was due to the driver or the car.
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