Sporadic Cold starting trouble

[Chris Chirdon]

Greetings all. I'm hoping someone could shed some light on this issue.

Vehicle:
1993 Legacy 4WD Wagon

Description of problem:
Only once out of 20 times or so, when I try to start the car in cold
weather (after it has sat long enough to get back to ambient temperature
through and through) it won't start for anything. I tried one morning for
10 minutes, cranking for 8 seconds then resting for 10, and it just would
not start. It wouldn't catch once, nada, zip. Then I left it alone for
5-10 minutes, came back, and on the first crank, it started right up but
there was a misty-white smoke that came out of the tailpipe for 5 minutes
then was gone. The smoke/vapor smelled like a cross between toluene and
gasoline. It never has this smoky stuff at any other time than when it
starts after giving me a hard time.

Other notes:
The car leaks a tiny amount of oil, and I can smell it burning on the exh
manifold once in a while, but it burns none. This car's exhaust smells
like a car that you just drove into the showroom; something that always
amazed me. It loses no coolant either.

My theories:
1) The smoke is extra gas burning off, but why white? I thought extra
gas was black when it burned?
2) What does a 'cold start injector' do and could it be involved? If it
is the problem, is it putting too much or too little fuel in? I would
think that with too little, it would at least kind-of start, but then
sputter. This feels like what flooding is to a carbureted engine. If I
experience this again, should I mebbe disconnect the cold-start injector
and see what happens?
3) The car is not a morning person and resents my attmepts to start it,
preferring to just sleep in.

Hey, thanks everyone and have a nice (insert-holiday-here).

Chris Chirdon
Pittsburgh PA

-PS I just got 4 new GoodYear AquaTread 3 tires on 3 weeks ago. When we
had a sneak-snow that draped 5+ inches on our local roads Thursday morning,
I tried out this "4 wheel drive" thing. It's simply AMAZING. We are at
the end of a street with about a 30 degree incline, and this car just
laughed at the other poor bastards spinning tires on the curb. =) This
Subaru relationship may be a lifelong thing (though I'll never give up my
RWD 1980 Celica convertible).

[Sam & Beth Barrett]

See notes below:

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Chirdon [mailto:chirdon+@pitt.edu]
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 7:31 AM
To: BC-BFLegacyWorks@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [BC-BFLegacyWorks] Sporadic Cold starting trouble


Greetings all. I'm hoping someone could shed some light on this issue.

Vehicle:
1993 Legacy 4WD Wagon

Description of problem:
Only once out of 20 times or so, when I try to start the car in cold
weather (after it has sat long enough to get back to ambient temperature

through and through) it won't start for anything. I tried one morning
for
10 minutes, cranking for 8 seconds then resting for 10, and it just
would
not start. It wouldn't catch once, nada, zip. Then I left it alone for

5-10 minutes, came back, and on the first crank, it started right up but

there was a misty-white smoke that came out of the tailpipe for 5
minutes
then was gone. The smoke/vapor smelled like a cross between toluene and

gasoline. It never has this smoky stuff at any other time than when it
starts after giving me a hard time.

>> You need a new starter motor. You almost certainly have an automatic
which means you can remove and replace this component yourself in about
an hour. Make sure you disconnect the battery first. Motor is on the
side of the bell housing to the tranny (pasenger side IIRCC).

Other notes:
The car leaks a tiny amount of oil, and I can smell it burning on the
exh
manifold once in a while, but it burns none. This car's exhaust smells
like a car that you just drove into the showroom; something that always
amazed me. It loses no coolant either.

>> You have a seal that is leaking and it's probably the crank. When you
take it in for the 30K mile tune up have them replace it/look into the
problem. Do it yourself will be a hassle but a dedicated owner with
parts in hand, and good instructions can do the job in a weekend.

My theories:
1) The smoke is extra gas burning off, but why white? I thought extra

gas was black when it burned?
2) What does a 'cold start injector' do and could it be involved? If
it
is the problem, is it putting too much or too little fuel in? I would
think that with too little, it would at least kind-of start, but then
sputter. This feels like what flooding is to a carbureted engine. If I

experience this again, should I mebbe disconnect the cold-start injector

and see what happens?
3) The car is not a morning person and resents my attmepts to start
it,
preferring to just sleep in.

Hey, thanks everyone and have a nice (insert-holiday-here).

Chris Chirdon
Pittsburgh PA

-PS I just got 4 new GoodYear AquaTread 3 tires on 3 weeks ago. When
we
had a sneak-snow that draped 5+ inches on our local roads Thursday
morning,
I tried out this "4 wheel drive" thing. It's simply AMAZING. We are at

the end of a street with about a 30 degree incline, and this car just
laughed at the other poor bastards spinning tires on the curb. =) This
Subaru relationship may be a lifelong thing (though I'll never give up
my
RWD 1980 Celica convertible).

>> That's why we love them!

[Chris Chirdon]

While I am no master mechanic, I'm also not a novice and this makes
absolutely no sense to me. It cranks fine. I mean, the angular velocity
of the motor is more or less the same on cold days and warm. Mebbe a touch
less on cold, but then the viscosity of the oil is higher. Starter motors
do nothing more than turn the engine over. And as long as they do it fast
enough, how does this impact the ignition performance?

Anything else it could be? Anyone have a factory service manual who wants
to type out the troubleshooting sequence for poor cold-starting
performance?

Chris
Pittsburgh, PA

[Todd A Erickson]

Sounds like a intermittent ECT (engine coolant temp) sender. The ECT sender is the biggest input into the PCM (powertrain control module) for the amount of fuel to inject while cranking. It can cause a flooded start or a lean start. Check for memory codes in the PCM. Code 21 is for the ECT sender.

Todd Erickson

[Sam & Beth Barrett]

I had the EXACT same problem - with the EXACT same symptoms on my car -
so I'm not just giving you "good advice"

Since you want to get technical:

Although your suggestion of angular velocity is based in physics, the
starter is an electronic component which is not subject the weakness of
simply making a flywheel rotate. Indeed electric motors wear out due to
loosing the conductive capacity of the coils in the motor. So sometimes
they work - sometimes they don't - and when the resistance is building
up in the coils; they choose to shuffle electrons from areas of high
concentration to an area of low concentration when they feel like it.
Simply you aren't fighting a mechanical resistance in this equation so
the nature of the oil temperature or the position of the flywheel, or
the position of the engine timing - have nothing to do with it. You need
the coils in the motor re-wound with new copper and the best way to do
it is to throw down ~$160.00 on a new starter.

Best,

-Sambo