Max boost on a VF11 setup.
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- Fourth Gear
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Max boost on a VF11 setup.
So i'm wondering this;
Last night I put in a new MBC from a friend, and I just guessed the amount and took off with the car. Well it was set at 15psi according to my gauge, I didn't bother to pull over and change it though. The car felt AWESOME! It actually pulled how I wanted it to. But what i'm wondering is can this harm anything? I don't care about the turbo because I'm doing a TD04 soon anyways, but I want to make sure other things are okay. My setup is STOCK besides the 3" turbo back exhaust, 06' intercooler, HKS FCD, a cold air intake setup with NGK plugs/wires. Can 15psi break my car? I have stock injectors and stock fuel pump, and the jecs metal maf with access to a plastic one if needed.
All thoughts appreciated
Last night I put in a new MBC from a friend, and I just guessed the amount and took off with the car. Well it was set at 15psi according to my gauge, I didn't bother to pull over and change it though. The car felt AWESOME! It actually pulled how I wanted it to. But what i'm wondering is can this harm anything? I don't care about the turbo because I'm doing a TD04 soon anyways, but I want to make sure other things are okay. My setup is STOCK besides the 3" turbo back exhaust, 06' intercooler, HKS FCD, a cold air intake setup with NGK plugs/wires. Can 15psi break my car? I have stock injectors and stock fuel pump, and the jecs metal maf with access to a plastic one if needed.
All thoughts appreciated
the guy who had the really low winestone SS on the corvette wheels
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- Fourth Gear
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Re: Max boost on a VF11 setup.
Possibly, you're running a stock ecu w/out a piggyback correct?
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Silver 93 Fwd N/A sedan undergoing repairs
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Silver 93 Fwd N/A sedan undergoing repairs
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Re: Max boost on a VF11 setup.
You won't have proper fuel or timing and are at an increased risk of breaking your engine due to that fact.
Just turn it down to 12 and be safe.
Just turn it down to 12 and be safe.
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- Fourth Gear
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Re: Max boost on a VF11 setup.
i'd say 10 at most, w/ the afr screwey you'll have detonation
Blue 94GT dead and steadily parting out.
Silver 93 Fwd N/A sedan undergoing repairs
93 Winestone TW project
92 SS scrapped by my landlord...
Silver 93 Fwd N/A sedan undergoing repairs
93 Winestone TW project
92 SS scrapped by my landlord...
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- Fourth Gear
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Re: Max boost on a VF11 setup.
Yeah I am on stock ECU and no piggyback. What if I throw some 440 grey tops in? I also put the JECS plastic MAF in today.
the guy who had the really low winestone SS on the corvette wheels
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Re: Max boost on a VF11 setup.
you will still need some ecu mods to control the 440s properly
Blue 94GT dead and steadily parting out.
Silver 93 Fwd N/A sedan undergoing repairs
93 Winestone TW project
92 SS scrapped by my landlord...
Silver 93 Fwd N/A sedan undergoing repairs
93 Winestone TW project
92 SS scrapped by my landlord...
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Re: Max boost on a VF11 setup.
Gotcha, some reason I thought stock ECU would handle 440's alright, you'd just run rich?
If I put the plastic JECS MAF on, would that make me run lean? i've read different things about it and was wondering.
If I put the plastic JECS MAF on, would that make me run lean? i've read different things about it and was wondering.
the guy who had the really low winestone SS on the corvette wheels
Re: Max boost on a VF11 setup.
The JECS MAF is not compatible with our stock ecu, it will run lean and you do not want that.
The stock ecu can handle 440s but its not really ideal. It runs a little richer and in doing so provides a little more safety margin when boosting higher.
I'd skip the 440s and get a wideband so you know whats going on while you tweak this stuff..
The stock ecu can handle 440s but its not really ideal. It runs a little richer and in doing so provides a little more safety margin when boosting higher.
I'd skip the 440s and get a wideband so you know whats going on while you tweak this stuff..
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Re: Max boost on a VF11 setup.
But I do want to put it on when I get some type of EM due to the fact that these handle higher boost levels over the metal maf, correct?
And I need to buy a wideband soon.
I'm still trying to figure out what route of EM I want to go..
And I need to buy a wideband soon.
I'm still trying to figure out what route of EM I want to go..
the guy who had the really low winestone SS on the corvette wheels
Re: Max boost on a VF11 setup.
I post this whenever someone asks about power on these cars. It's a solid, reliable, fairly cheap setup for what you get. There's not much else you can do that will get you to this power level with the same amount of safety for your engine.
The 440s will run on a stock ECU, but they will be terribly, terribly rich and waste fuel and in general cause many problems. If you get a RobTune you can use them, but won't be as good as the newer STi injectors I recommend below.
The 440s will run on a stock ECU, but they will be terribly, terribly rich and waste fuel and in general cause many problems. If you get a RobTune you can use them, but won't be as good as the newer STi injectors I recommend below.
Best setup for cheap, reliable power on one of these cars (I post this whenever someone asks about power upgrades):
RobTuned EJ20G ECU
STi 550cc injectors
JECS (green label plastic) MAF
VF39 or TD05-16g turbo
06-07 WRX intercooler w/recirc BPV
Manual Boost Controller at 17psi
Free-flowing exhaust
Stock intake with de-snorkel and coffee cup mod
Re: Max boost on a VF11 setup.
My two cents.....as long as your AFR's are good and you don't max your MAF out, you can run whatever boost you want. Depending on modifications that may be 12 psi, 14 psi, or 15 psi.
10-12 psi should be fine. I'd suggest getting the wideband setup so you can monifor AFR's and your AFR's are good, you can probably bump the boost up a little bit. However, the vf11 probably won't feel or give you much more air (more volume) at higher boost pressures.
10-12 psi should be fine. I'd suggest getting the wideband setup so you can monifor AFR's and your AFR's are good, you can probably bump the boost up a little bit. However, the vf11 probably won't feel or give you much more air (more volume) at higher boost pressures.
Josh
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If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
Re: Max boost on a VF11 setup.
The problem is that the metal MAF will be maxed out over about 12psi with a VF11, at which point your fueling goes to crap and your timing will not be accurate.
Even with good AFR you can still break things with too high of timing, high IATs, or high EGTs. AFR isn't everything when it comes to tuning or running an engine properly.
Even with good AFR you can still break things with too high of timing, high IATs, or high EGTs. AFR isn't everything when it comes to tuning or running an engine properly.
Re: Max boost on a VF11 setup.
I would be afraid of the increased temps without an intercooler.
Tony
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Re: Max boost on a VF11 setup.
If you have the plastic MAF and 440s already, along with an inter cooler and exhaust, just get a robtune and you'll be set for what you're trying to do with proper timing and fueling, and much more power than forcing it to run on he stock ECU.
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05 Outback 2.5XT 5spd -- Now the wife can have her SUV and get in on the turbo Legacy goodness at the same time.
Re: Max boost on a VF11 setup.
I guess I should have clarified that when the MAF maxes out that the AFR's usually drop into the low 10's, and if you're seeing that with the wideband, boost needs to be backed off.Alphius wrote:The problem is that the metal MAF will be maxed out over about 12psi with a VF11, at which point your fueling goes to crap and your timing will not be accurate.
Even with good AFR you can still break things with too high of timing, high IATs, or high EGTs. AFR isn't everything when it comes to tuning or running an engine properly.
I don't really see how timing is going to be affected. At the higher load ranges, the timing doesn't change much, so I don't think that's going to be a big issue.
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
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- Fourth Gear
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Re: Max boost on a VF11 setup.
Alphius, thank you for that. That's exactly what i'm aiming for, for now.
SILINC3R, I am intercooled, both my OP and sig state that!
SILINC3R, I am intercooled, both my OP and sig state that!
the guy who had the really low winestone SS on the corvette wheels
Re: Max boost on a VF11 setup.
OK, makes sense on the AFR/wideband then. I am with you there.Legacy777 wrote:I guess I should have clarified that when the MAF maxes out that the AFR's usually drop into the low 10's, and if you're seeing that with the wideband, boost needs to be backed off.
I don't really see how timing is going to be affected. At the higher load ranges, the timing doesn't change much, so I don't think that's going to be a big issue.
Maybe I am a little too wary of appropriate timeing, but timing needs to reduce with boost and load and if the ECU cannot measure load above a certain point timing will not be reduced appropriately. I don't like depending on the knock sensor to bring the timing down when necessary, and with the Subaru ECU doing so impacts the entire timing table not just the points at which knock occurs.
Re: Max boost on a VF11 setup.
Without seeing what a stock timing table looks like, I can't say for sure, but it would probably be ok. I agree that timing should be pulled as boost/load increases, and unless you go super crazy with the boost, the timing values at the "max load" position will be what is used. This isn't ideal, but again I don't think it is going to be your biggest issue.
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
Re: Max boost on a VF11 setup.
I think we agree here Josh. Regardless, he shouldn't do it.
Re: Max boost on a VF11 setup.
Agreed
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm