ej22 na turbo help pls

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bcmaxx
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Re: ej22 na turbo help pls

Post by bcmaxx » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:43 am

What kind of issues might i run into swapping in a 22t block. Keeping the ej22e heads? Compression ratio wise and boost wise? I picked up a running 22t with 127000km on the clock. Suggestions on what to do with what i have? I also have a north american market wtx 2.0 shortblock with 155000km.

cj91legss
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Re: ej22 na turbo help pls

Post by cj91legss » Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:48 am

My 91 I have for sale has a 2.0 with 22t heads. It's a fun car. More torque than I expected with the less displacement. It's my dd until I sell it.

What options do you have for heads?
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bcmaxx
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Re: ej22 na turbo help pls

Post by bcmaxx » Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:43 am

cj91legss wrote:My 91 I have for sale has a 2.0 with 22t heads. It's a fun car. More torque than I expected with the less displacement. It's my dd until I sell it.

What options do you have for heads?

All i have are 2.2na and 2.2 t heads. For ease of use and fitment id like to stick to the na heads. Ive been told they flow better

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Re: ej22 na turbo help pls

Post by bcmaxx » Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:45 am

Image

Drivers head gasket was bad and both cylinders had cracks between spark plug and intake valves. Explains a lot. What causes this? Over tightened plugs?

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Re: ej22 na turbo help pls

Post by cj91legss » Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:16 pm

That's usually a problem the newer heads has, i.e. usdm wrx and up. I don't think I have seen any older heads with the spark plug crack.

I think all the heat causes it.
91 L-TW Wagon with a full Swap -RIP
92 SS Prefaced, GD dash swapped, 22T/205 Hybrid 20 psi - BEAST!
93 SS Bone Stock Gone!
94 TW Bone Stock Gone!
91 SS 4EAT Sold!
98 LGT 4EAT
98 LGT Wagon 4EAT

bcmaxx
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Re: ej22 na turbo help pls

Post by bcmaxx » Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:27 pm

cj91legss wrote:That's usually a problem the newer heads has, i.e. usdm wrx and up. I don't think I have seen any older heads with the spark plug crack.

I think all the heat causes it.

It rattled under load preturbo and after turbo, I thought just carbon buildup.. when I got it I did plugs among other things right away, the drivers bank were hard to get out, new plugs felt funny tightening, could some one have cranked in plugs and caused this?
I picked up a 22na, a 2.2t and a head to replace this one used for $340 cnd. think I got lucky. plans are now:

now: install used head, new head gaskets and continue on enjoying with the td04 hopefully until spring
future: (winter project)2.2t block, na heads with turbo cams, thinner head gasket, head studs, ans with any luck an sti turbo.

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Re: ej22 na turbo help pls

Post by rallyak » Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:30 pm

I'm almost sure that those cracks are ok, I've seen that a lot. I have heads on my car that has the same cracks. But a good machine shop can tell you, but I'm sure they will want to fix it possibly. It's an easy fix pull the seat out and weld it up clean up the weld and cut it for the new seats. I've done it on lots of heads but never on these heads the cracks were never bad enough.
Charles

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86BRATMAN
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Re: ej22 na turbo help pls

Post by 86BRATMAN » Sat Oct 11, 2014 6:33 am

bcmaxx wrote:
cj91legss wrote:That's usually a problem the newer heads has, i.e. usdm wrx and up. I don't think I have seen any older heads with the spark plug crack.

I think all the heat causes it.

It rattled under load preturbo and after turbo, I thought just carbon buildup.. when I got it I did plugs among other things right away, the drivers bank were hard to get out, new plugs felt funny tightening, could some one have cranked in plugs and caused this?
I picked up a 22na, a 2.2t and a head to replace this one used for $340 cnd. think I got lucky. plans are now:

now: install used head, new head gaskets and continue on enjoying with the td04 hopefully until spring
future: (winter project)2.2t block, na heads with turbo cams, thinner head gasket, head studs, ans with any luck an sti turbo.

Bad idea using a 22t block and 22e heads, the closed deck block is cast with specific coolant ports, and the 22e heads are completely wrong for it. No head gasket in the world will fix that, you must use 22t or dohc heads on the 22t block. Not a big issue on an open deck block because, well, the entire coolant area is one.

bcmaxx
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Re: ej22 na turbo help pls

Post by bcmaxx » Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:48 pm

86BRATMAN wrote:
bcmaxx wrote:
cj91legss wrote:That's usually a problem the newer heads has, i.e. usdm wrx and up. I don't think I have seen any older heads with the spark plug crack.

I think all the heat causes it.

It rattled under load preturbo and after turbo, I thought just carbon buildup.. when I got it I did plugs among other things right away, the drivers bank were hard to get out, new plugs felt funny tightening, could some one have cranked in plugs and caused this?
I picked up a 22na, a 2.2t and a head to replace this one used for $340 cnd. think I got lucky. plans are now:

now: install used head, new head gaskets and continue on enjoying with the td04 hopefully until spring
future: (winter project)2.2t block, na heads with turbo cams, thinner head gasket, head studs, ans with any luck an sti turbo.

Bad idea using a 22t block and 22e heads, the closed deck block is cast with specific coolant ports, and the 22e heads are completely wrong for it. No head gasket in the world will fix that, you must use 22t or dohc heads on the 22t block. Not a big issue on an open deck block because, well, the entire coolant area is one.


I have a set of 11044aa463 head gaskets I drill matched to the stock turbo gasket. still bad idea?

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Re: ej22 na turbo help pls

Post by cj91legss » Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:55 pm

Bratman is talking about the heads themselves. The coolant jackets on the heads don't match the coolant jackets on the closed deck block. If you wanted the correct coolant ports, you'd have to modify the heads i.e. open up the coolant ports on the heads to get the proper coolant flow. I don't know if anyone has done this.

Alternatively, you could port and polish your 22t heads to get better flow out of them.
91 L-TW Wagon with a full Swap -RIP
92 SS Prefaced, GD dash swapped, 22T/205 Hybrid 20 psi - BEAST!
93 SS Bone Stock Gone!
94 TW Bone Stock Gone!
91 SS 4EAT Sold!
98 LGT 4EAT
98 LGT Wagon 4EAT

bcmaxx
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Re: ej22 na turbo help pls

Post by bcmaxx » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:45 pm

cj91legss wrote:Bratman is talking about the heads themselves. The coolant jackets on the heads don't match the coolant jackets on the closed deck block. If you wanted the correct coolant ports, you'd have to modify the heads i.e. open up the coolant ports on the heads to get the proper coolant flow. I don't know if anyone has done this.

Alternatively, you could port and polish your 22t heads to get better flow out of them.



Thanks for filling me in!

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Re: ej22 na turbo help pls

Post by 86BRATMAN » Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:11 am

The biggest difference in the heads, other than the coolant ports, is the valve size and cam profile. I forget if it's intake or exhaust or possibly both that are 1mm smaller on turbo heads. And of course the cam profile is different for the motors.

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Re: ej22 na turbo help pls

Post by bcmaxx » Thu Oct 30, 2014 4:37 pm

well I have a misfire at idle... after a long hard pull, ( 13% grade for 1.5 miles) at 8psi boost, it seems I have developed a bad mis at idle and reduced power overall. I pulled plug wires one at a time, and unplugged injectors one at a time neither seem to be a problem, no smoke, no engine noise. I'm thinking possibly a fouled plug? is that possible? they are bkr7e11ix gapped at .030. should I fire in stock plugs and try it? it runs smoother about 1500rpm and up, like theres no0 miss at all. Idle is now at 600rpm, and it shakes the car pretty good

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Re: ej22 na turbo help pls

Post by Legacy777 » Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:44 pm

I'd start by pulling the plugs and see what they look like. You could try the stock plugs and see if that makes a difference.

If the colder plugs aren't reaching their self-cleaning temp even when into boost they could be carboned up.
Josh

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bcmaxx
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Re: ej22 na turbo help pls

Post by bcmaxx » Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:08 pm

Legacy777 wrote:I'd start by pulling the plugs and see what they look like. You could try the stock plugs and see if that makes a difference.

If the colder plugs aren't reaching their self-cleaning temp even when into boost they could be carboned up.


ok, thanks, i'll have a set of the stock and colder plugs on hand gapped to .030 , and install the stockers if they look fouled.. hope it isnt a burned valve or something bad

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Re: ej22 na turbo help pls

Post by bcmaxx » Thu Oct 30, 2014 9:37 pm

fixed!! wasnt the plugs, was the iac hose partially came disconnected. kind of happy about that!!

did the plugs anyways as I did them first. thoughts on how they read? they have about 1500 km on them:


Image

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Re: ej22 na turbo help pls

Post by bcmaxx » Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:46 pm

I have a strong feeling I burned a valve, contunues to idle like trash , runs and drives great still. just idling is unbearable. hopefully it holds out until I can get this 2.2t reconditioned

my official used parts haul yesterday:: complete 2.2. turbo, complete 2.2 non turbo $340 cdn $ ,
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Re: ej22 na turbo help pls

Post by bcmaxx » Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:11 pm

so my turboes 2.2na , is exhibiting some blue smoke under boost 6psi up . no smoke at idle, no smoke at startup. only under boost if i hold it for more than a few short bursts. no significant oil buildup in the oil/water seperator. thinking rings?

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Re: ej22 na turbo help pls

Post by Legacy777 » Sat Nov 15, 2014 6:03 am

Yeah, I'd probably think rings as well.
Josh

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Re: ej22 na turbo help pls

Post by bcmaxx » Sat Nov 15, 2014 5:41 pm

Legacy777 wrote:Yeah, I'd probably think rings as well.

well yesterday it blew the dipstick out, and i trace the pcv lines and found the one doing to the pcv nipple was kinked near closed, I've repaired that, replaced pcv valve. and thinking maybe i should add another catch cat on that pcv hose?

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Re: ej22 na turbo help pls

Post by Legacy777 » Mon Nov 17, 2014 7:36 pm

How do you currently have the PCV lines routed? Do you currently have a catch can, and if so how is it routed?
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Re: ej22 na turbo help pls

Post by GTEASER » Mon Nov 17, 2014 8:18 pm

Legacy777 is asking about the catch can hose routing because if you pull the vacuum line off the charge pipe or manifold without a check valve, the boost pressure will be pressurizing the crank case. Use a pre-turbo intake pipe to pull PCV vac if there is no check valve before the catch can.

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Re: ej22 na turbo help pls

Post by bcmaxx » Tue Nov 18, 2014 5:03 pm

current routing :
rh, lh v cover, and smaller center vent line off the tree, go to a catch can , then to the intake pipe preturbo. pvc top hose to catch can to pcv valve.

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Re: ej22 na turbo help pls

Post by Legacy777 » Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:48 am

I know I'm very late to the game in replying, but what are you calling the "center vent line off the tree"? On the N/A block there isn't a center port on the block. Are you referring to another line?

Do you have two different catch cans or just one?

The breather lines on the valve covers bring fresh air into the crankcase. The source for these lines should come from the pre-turbo inlet piping. I would run from the pre-turbo inlet piping to the valve covers, and then run the outlet from the back of the crankcase to the catch can and then run the outlet of the catch can to the PCV valve.
Josh

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Re: ej22 na turbo help pls

Post by bcmaxx » Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:06 am

Legacy777 wrote:I know I'm very late to the game in replying, but what are you calling the "center vent line off the tree"? On the N/A block there isn't a center port on the block. Are you referring to another line?

Do you have two different catch cans or just one?

The breather lines on the valve covers bring fresh air into the crankcase. The source for these lines should come from the pre-turbo inlet piping. I would run from the pre-turbo inlet piping to the valve covers, and then run the outlet from the back of the crankcase to the catch can and then run the outlet of the catch can to the PCV valve.


Hi so its all been rerouted using two catch cans, working great, no more blue smoke at idle.

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