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#Anyone wanna help me turbo my 00 lgt ej25d?

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 Post subject: Anyone wanna help me turbo my 00 lgt ej25d?
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2016 11:15 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:53 am
Posts: 5
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
So I've been trying to boost my car for about a month now, having troubles deciding what works and what I will need for the entire build. Concidering the td04 but i'm not sure if my car can handle even 5psi with stock internals being its a n/a 2.5 gt. Basically I'm thinking along with the turbo I will need new exhaust system, possibly headers (preferably not), fuel pump, ecu tune and more. My exact car has been boosted for under $700 and it just so happens that is my exact budget, so any reference or guidance would be appreciated as I don't know much about engine tuning. I have been researching for some time now across forums, vids and personal info i've gathered still cannot come up with a build. No I will not do an engine swap unless I have to, that is a last resort. Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone wanna help me turbo my 00 lgt ej25d?
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 3:09 am 
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Have you gotten a hold of the person who turboed a 3rd generation legacy?
Is this your only car? Your engine breaking is a very real possibility and having another form of transportation and a place to store the broken legacy till you can afford to fix it will be important.

Here's my advice. Do this right the first time. Save up till you can buy a wrecked WRX. Swap the engine, exhaust and turbo crossmember over. Have iWire merge both cars wiring harness so you can run the WRX's ecu and everything on your car still runs as it did from the factory.
You will end up with a car as fun and reliable as a WRX with a fully tunable ECU. You should be able to do this for around 5k if you can do a lot of the mechanical swapping of parts.

Or, you can buy stock in pick n pull and keep feeding the car a steady stream of ej25s. No real tuning ability, and catastrophic failure is around the corner at every turn.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone wanna help me turbo my 00 lgt ej25d?
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 3:53 am 
quasi-mod-o
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Joined: Wed May 30, 2007 6:11 am
Posts: 2753
Location: Charlotte, NC
Had this talk with a similar folk on facebook. Another cheap alternate is to try and find a 1st gen Legacy turbo and call it a day.

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Tony
90 LS Spec rio red sold
91 SS rio red R.I.P
90 Mazda Miata
2005 GT SWP

92ss satinsvoice wrote:
LOL! that block was like F*** THIS! IM OUT!

mike-tracy wrote:
Word. I'd love to get my hands on one of those trannies, but I just can't stomach the cost


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone wanna help me turbo my 00 lgt ej25d?
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 3:54 am 
quasi-mod-o
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Posts: 2753
Location: Charlotte, NC
oh and tuning alone with cost more than $700 bucks

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Tony
90 LS Spec rio red sold
91 SS rio red R.I.P
90 Mazda Miata
2005 GT SWP

92ss satinsvoice wrote:
LOL! that block was like F*** THIS! IM OUT!

mike-tracy wrote:
Word. I'd love to get my hands on one of those trannies, but I just can't stomach the cost


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 Post subject: Re: Anyone wanna help me turbo my 00 lgt ej25d?
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 1:17 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:53 am
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Location: Salt Lake City, UT
I had a chance at picking up a scrapped wrx but passed it by because i have no where to store it at the moment. If it is possible to just take a turbo out of a newer legacy or an older turbo'd one I'd really like to know what else i'm going to need for 0 malfunctions or safety concerns and at least 5psi of boost, because it cannot just be that simple. What year range WRX would i be looking for? I'm also looking for an exhaust for my car and all i can seem to find is the jdm B4 exhaust as well. I would sell this car and buy a newer LGT or even a wrx but something about my car is different to me, I love the style and the potential it has plus I'll see an impreza or WRX everywhere I go, this car however is not so common at all.
Thanks for the advice guys. Cheers!

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone wanna help me turbo my 00 lgt ej25d?
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 6:24 am 
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Pay a shop to do the swap if you do not have space. Turboing your particular motor is a Really, Really bad idea, and you will find out first hand why it is one of the weakest modern engines subaru has ever made.

Since this website focuses primarily on 1990-1994 Legacys (though all are welcome). You might want to ask around on SL-I.net or legacygt.org as they have many owners with your particular car.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone wanna help me turbo my 00 lgt ej25d?
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 3:25 pm 
Fourth Gear
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 1204
Location: Rochester, WA
I'll echo what Mike says; an EJ25 is a bad engine to turbo and you will absolutely need other transportation when it breaks and you need to swap engines. You'll need a place to work and the tools to do so unless you like throwing hundred dollar bills at mechanics, most of whom will not want to work on this car since it's not factory.

The bare minimum you need to turbo an EJ25:
A suitable turbo. TD04 has a WG spring of 7psi, so likely not a great choice. VF11 might work.
Custom air intake piping with MAF.
Intercooler with custom piping.
Downpipe and exhaust. Nothing from the cat back will bolt onto your chassis, so you'll need to go custom here too.
OEM turbo header and uppipe.
Turbo waterpump and thermostat housing.
Turbo engine crossmember.
Oil feed and drain lines added to your engine.
RRFPR and wideband along with a MAP/MAF clamp.

This'll get you to 5ish psi max, and has a large possibility of blowing up the engine. I'd expect to be able to do it for less than $1k if you can do all the custom work yourself. Plan on the car being down for at least a week. You could add a standalone ECU and tuning for more safety, but that'll be an additional $1500 or more to do properly and involves lots of wiring. There are no reflashing or tuning options available for the stock ECU.

If you want factory levels of reliability, the best choice is to find a wrecked WRX and swap everything drivetrain related over with a wiring and ECU merge. There's not going to be any cheap hack methods to have the same reliability and power as a WRX swap with less cost.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone wanna help me turbo my 00 lgt ej25d?
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 10:48 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:53 am
Posts: 5
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Alphius wrote:
I'll echo what Mike says; an EJ25 is a bad engine to turbo and you will absolutely need other transportation when it breaks and you need to swap engines. You'll need a place to work and the tools to do so unless you like throwing hundred dollar bills at mechanics, most of whom will not want to work on this car since it's not factory.

The bare minimum you need to turbo an EJ25:
A suitable turbo. TD04 has a WG spring of 7psi, so likely not a great choice. VF11 might work.
Custom air intake piping with MAF.
Intercooler with custom piping.
Downpipe and exhaust. Nothing from the cat back will bolt onto your chassis, so you'll need to go custom here too.
OEM turbo header and uppipe.
Turbo waterpump and thermostat housing.
Turbo engine crossmember.
Oil feed and drain lines added to your engine.
RRFPR and wideband along with a MAP/MAF clamp.

This'll get you to 5ish psi max, and has a large possibility of blowing up the engine. I'd expect to be able to do it for less than $1k if you can do all the custom work yourself. Plan on the car being down for at least a week. You could add a standalone ECU and tuning for more safety, but that'll be an additional $1500 or more to do properly and involves lots of wiring. There are no reflashing or tuning options available for the stock ECU.

If you want factory levels of reliability, the best choice is to find a wrecked WRX and swap everything drivetrain related over with a wiring and ECU merge. There's not going to be any cheap hack methods to have the same reliability and power as a WRX swap with less cost.

Very informational, thanks. I figured this site could help me out, psh it's not like i'm a 4th gen or anything. As you may be able to tell I'm not very experienced with subaru engines, but I've already gone through SLI and other forums but got a similar but much less clear answer. I am very surprised I cannot even get an ECU tune of any sort, I was just going to get an appointment set up at a local shop lol. As for my engine.. Im currently watching a local salvage auction for an 04 impreza wrx wagon (ej20t?) and it sells in two days.. I've gone through pics and other info and the engine is in good condition, with a few mods already visible and posted as running. Is this swap even possible? There might be some people that could do the swap for me but chances are I'm going to have it done professionally :/ I do have another option of transportation if necessary so that shouldn't be a factor. But If there's really no hope for my car than i'm going to have to pull myself together and sell it :( If serious about me not posting anymore that can be done, though it's just a 2000. Thanks

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone wanna help me turbo my 00 lgt ej25d?
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 11:02 pm 
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No, you are welcome to post here lol. There are just 1 or 2 third gen owners on the site. Alphius being one of them.

If you can do the mechanical side of the swap (swapping engines, transmission, turbo crossmember, brakes, driveshaft, brackets and etc, then this is absolutely doable. As I mentioned, contact Iwire and mail him both car's wiring harnesses. He will send you one merged harness back and then the swap is plug and play. The electrical merge is usually the hardest part of the swap, but for $650 plus postage saves you months of headache.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone wanna help me turbo my 00 lgt ej25d?
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 11:43 pm 
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The Baja XT even came with a turbo hood that is a direct bolt on to your car.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone wanna help me turbo my 00 lgt ej25d?
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 5:16 am 
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Location: Salt Lake City, UT
mike-tracy wrote:
The Baja XT even came with a turbo hood that is a direct bolt on to your car.

Well I really hope you're talking about the actual baja engine and not just the hood.. But if so I will definitely consider a Baja XT if it sounds like the most direct route, the auto-manual ej253 turbo'd seems to get roughly 200hp factory so that's something much more to work with. I don't like the sound of having one of the weakest subaru engines ever made, seems like a money hole down the road (odo only reads 101k) and a un-moddable car to me, but I love my legacy. Anywho, both engines have a compression ratio of 10 but the 06 xt engine can handle a turbo and other mods better? Just so you guys know, I'm very unskilled in engine mechanics so I'm going to need a pro or a LOT of help from someone I know to do this swap, car audio and wiring is more my thing. I wish all this made sense to me, basically I'm going to start looking for a impreza-wrx/BXT engine or a new car. I mean my car is an SOHC and the 253 is DOHC, stock boosted and apparently is a perfect fit. Also will any 06 and older impreza engine work? Thanks for the help, sorry if this is painful lol. Oh yea and I guess my cars also notorious for hg problems so that's cool too. Cheers.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone wanna help me turbo my 00 lgt ej25d?
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 5:53 am 
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Ha ha, I guess I wasn't very clear. The Baja XT *IS* a turbo 3rd generation legacy (with a chopped down tail end). Hence the turbo hood that is a bolt on for your car. That car has an EJ255 engine, just like the 05-09 Legacy GT, the 04-? Forester XT, Outback XT, 06-2013 WRX, etc. There are some variances, but all are 2.5L turbo DOHC engines with the same engine code.

Sorry to disappoint you, but the manual 00-04 legacys still has ~165 HP, just like your car. To get 200 HP, you would need to spend a couple grand on a standalone ECU, every bolt on performance part in the book, larger exhaust, as well as building your engine up with higher compression pistons and hotter cams. Oh and a tune. It might be cheaper than a wrx swap, but you would be at the bleeding edge of reliability with no room to expand down the road.

Of all the non-turbo ej25's in the US, only the EJ25D was DOHC. You have a SOHC ej25, and all the other non-turbo ej25s are SOHC as well.

Back to the swapping question. You can literally bolt any EJ series engine into your car. It bolts to your transmission, the motor mounts fit in the crossmember holes, etc. You could put an ej22t, ej255, ej207, ej18, etc in there. The twin turbo engines will fit in there, but the driver side turbo is in the way of your steering knuckle so it's not a good option. **Your computer will not be able to control the swapped engine.** Hence my suggestion to have a company merge your wiring harness.

I guess the first step is to examine your budget. What can you afford (you don't need to post that, just keep it in mind) to do, and are you willing to go through with it if your car is down for 6 months or more during the swap? Figure that the new engine will need all new gaskets and seals, timing belt and water pump, spark plugs. New clutch kit if swapping to manual. Fluids. Bad turbo? Maybe more mechanical parts if anything got damaged by accident. Figure out if you can swap the mechanical yourself or if you need a shop to do it. This will prob cost as much as your car is worth if you have to pay a shop. Calculate in the wiring merge. Come up with a budget and double it. That's close to what you will end up spending.

There is a reason that most people do not swap the 3rd gens, and it's not because it's not an awesome car. I love the front end on it. It's because it's freaking expensive!

I'll say it again, this swap is doable, it takes time, and costs a metric crapload if you can't do it all yourself.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone wanna help me turbo my 00 lgt ej25d?
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 3:24 pm 
Fourth Gear
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 1204
Location: Rochester, WA
Oh yeah, post here all you want. The majority of Legacy owners here own 91-94 cars though, so they may not have a lot of knowledge or experience with the newer stuff. Mike and I are both kind of Subaru jack-of-all-trades guys, we know quite a bit of stuff from 91-09ish and both have done builds on newer and older cars. I don't even own a 91-94 Legacy anymore and I still hang around here from time to time just because I like this forum better than some of the others.

Whichever way you slice it, this is a difficult swap. If you'd like to see some of what it takes from a wiring standpoint, check out my build thread on SL-i: http://sl-i.net/FORUM/showthread.php?18 ... speed-swap
My '99 is similar to your '00 from a wiring standpoint with a few small changes you can identify from the wiring diagrams in the Factory Service Manuals. I even have a Google Docs spreadhseet in there that shows most of the connections that need to be made. Or iWire can do this same wiring job for $700ish if you provide the harnesses.

There's a company in Connecticut that specializes in swapping older Subarus to turbo power called ECS (East Coast Swappers). They have a pricing page that gives you a rundown of the labor charges for the swaps they do if you provide a donor car. Not very cheap! http://conversions.eastcoastswappers.com/rates.php

I think it'd be much more cost effective to simply sell the GT and buy an 02-07 2.0L WRX or an 05-09 Legacy GT that has the 250hp EJ255 turbo engine in it from the factory.



If you still want to pursue the "turbo the EJ25 that's already there" route, check out this thread: http://www.rs25.com/forums/f105/t160188 ... ej25d.html
Again, that's not exactly your car or your engine but the mechanics of getting the turbo installed and hooked up is nearly identical. You can see that you'd need all the parts I mentioned in my first post on this topic.

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 Post subject: Re: Anyone wanna help me turbo my 00 lgt ej25d?
PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2016 10:51 pm 
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Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Yea I've come to realize now why people don't swap this car.. Maybe one day, far into the future, I will own an RSK B4 but we can only dream. Suppose I'm going to get to work on fixing up a few things and get it up for sale in the next month or so ); such a fun car even with 170hp, love the look too. Full new sound system with sub, tinted the windows and have done $1300+ in repairs since I got it, low milage too so a decent price should be fully possible. I've seen some affordable STI's in my area but I'm more turned on by the legacy, there's just something about it. Really though If i'm going to be practical I have to sell it, I don't have a few thousand to throw around rn for what I want to do to it. Thanks for all the help and at least I know lotss more about the EJ series now. RIP

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