everyone should read this! stop the h8t3rz

This is for non-Subaru related topics. Keep it realistic please.

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everyone should read this! stop the h8t3rz

Post by Rubasu »

http://maydaygarage.com/2012/01/04/car- ... arles-kha/

This is from one of my other forums... read and enjoy and disscuss.
Last edited by Rubasu on Wed Mar 28, 2012 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: everyone should read this!

Post by euroshark »

i spy a hennesy venom gt!!!
http://r-hgarage.com/ -CLICK ME
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Re: everyone should read this!

Post by Rubasu »

Bump
90 legacy Wagon LS Special, JDM closed deck 20g, custom 25d heads f/ metic motors, APS GC FMIC, 740cc, VF34, 4.11 F/D, Turboxs RFL blow off valve, now with piggyback.
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Re: everyone should read this!

Post by Rubasu »

bump
90 legacy Wagon LS Special, JDM closed deck 20g, custom 25d heads f/ metic motors, APS GC FMIC, 740cc, VF34, 4.11 F/D, Turboxs RFL blow off valve, now with piggyback.
94 Legacy SS R.I.P (parts car now for 90)
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Re: everyone should read this!

Post by SILINC3R »

Thanks for posting this as I would have never read this. I believe whole heartedly to what he writes. This is what has happened to NASIOC. This forum I believe as many others will vouch is pretty good in keeping to this without even really thinking about. I fell every member should read this, almost like a creed. There are many different ways to modify a Legacy as you can see right here on this forum as with anyother car forum but what you want see in most other forums is the acceptance of a persons view on styling. And again everyone should read this not just look at the pictures lol.
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Re: everyone should read this! stop the h8t3rz

Post by Rubasu »

i feel the same way. it has happened to me even on this site. but i now never go nasioc.
90 legacy Wagon LS Special, JDM closed deck 20g, custom 25d heads f/ metic motors, APS GC FMIC, 740cc, VF34, 4.11 F/D, Turboxs RFL blow off valve, now with piggyback.
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Re: everyone should read this! stop the h8t3rz

Post by vrg3 »

Ha! At first glance, I thought this thread would be about some terrible engine with the engine code H8T3RZ.

But, yes, that article's message is an important one.

And there's an insidious thing that's happening in the tech world that I fear will soon be making its way into cars too. We run a greater and greater risk of being locked out of modifying our own vehicles. It's already happening with video games and cell phones -- "mod chips" that allow you to control your own video game console, that you paid for and own, have to be sold on the grey or black market. Smart phones are sold locked down and their manufacturers are slowly succeeding in making the general public believe that gaining access to your own phone so you can actually choose what runs on it is immoral. Portable computers are being replaced with these limited-functionality tablets that only run the apps that the manufacturer permits (and that permission can be revoked at any time), and their owners have little say in what these apps choose to do. Simultaneously, the manufacturers of these electronic devices fight hard to try and get the world's governments to protect their immediate interests by outlawing the activities of the hobbyist and tinkerer that try to extend these devices' capabilities without the manufacturer's blessing. But the hobbyists and tinkerers are the ones who were actually innovative enough to invent all this stuff to begin with!

Consumer electronics are already sold with their figurative hoods welded shut. As that starts to happen with cars, splintered groups of enthusiasts will be at a disadvantage when it comes to having their opinions heard. If we band together, we'll have a much better chance at preserving our rights to modify our own machines.
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Re: everyone should read this! stop the h8t3rz

Post by crisco »

My feedback on the article in the original post:

meh -- i attribute that article as too much coffee or beer while surfing late at night. i spend many late hours in the dark corners of automotive interwebbery myself.

i dont see it as being any different than kids playing in an elementary school playground. some kids are mean, most people are nice -- no one (barely) ever gets too hurt or mentally damaged to be able to grow up and be a productive member of society. once in a while a tragedy occurs (it would be nice to reduce those obviously).

some people take the internet too seriously. thats for sure. but is it killing our car enthusiast culture and options to do modify or drive what we want? not really. if someone REALLY stops modifying their car because some guy on a keyboard on the other end of a wireless connection slams them in on line community, then they care too much what other people they have never met think.

in fact, the web is still creating MORE opportunities for furthering any type of self-expression automotive or otherwise and its not changing anytime soon.

people will not stop modding their cars no matter what. and tough guys on the interweb will be there in any type of forum, car-related or not. look anywhere - spoon collectors, grandmothers' knitting societies, news articles, anything. that will never change and it will not really stop people from being themselves - if they have anything of a soul inside them to point them in the direction they need to go.
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Re: everyone should read this! stop the h8t3rz

Post by evolutionmovement »

Really, it's just why this is the only car site I post to with any frequency at all. The internet isn't the reason car people are predominately assholes as they were like that long before. When I went to design school, the Transportation students were some of the most miserably hateful and close-minded people I've ever met (but I don't attend political gatherings) and I decided I wanted no part of it. Since then, I've found I can't stomach having friends I hang out with frequently who are into cars (though the people I've met from this board I would gladly hang out with as this place really is an exception). Thankfully, cars themselves have grown to bore me for the most part (they've become more isolated, there is too little interesting innovation or differences, and traffic and cops have made driving itself so unsatisfying and opportunities too rare), so it's no loss to my quality of life to lose much of the enthusiasm I used to have and I think that it's actually better for me. Could be coincidence, but I've become mentally healthier and happier as I've turned away from cars and devoted more time to bikes, kayaks, writing, family, and therapy for my PTSD (which I might not have pursued had I still been so stuck on cars). This is the only time in my life when I've been happy (some times with my ex excepted, but now I'm happy by myself) and this is the only time I've had no overwhelming interest in cars.

Nowadays, my interest in cars beyond staying abreast of news is planning how to get the money and time to build my own. It won't be part of any "scene" as there's nothing really like it, there are a few things that are close, but nothing truly comparable. It's not modifying as it's a ground up design and the off-the-shelf parts will be kept stock. But I suppose I've never cared to fit into any group beyond myself and all the voices in my head. It's something that might be loved by the Eco guys or the driving purity guys who love Atoms and 7's or the aircraft aficionados or . . . who the hell knows. My biggest problem with car guys is that so many only like one kind of vehicle or make or model when I tend to like everything, even things I wouldn't want for myself. My influences are 30's Art Deco luxury cars; 50's European racers, sow cars, and American cars; WW2 fighter planes; wood speed boats; LSR cars; stripped down road racers; early hot rods, and muscle cars. But I will be using as modern technology as I can afford. I'm all over the place.
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Re: everyone should read this! stop the h8t3rz

Post by ggbox69 »

Nice article.

"If a car show enthusiast accidentally jumps onto a drifting forum, chances are he’ll be annihilated within minutes of his first post. If a drag racer tries to show off his latest creation on a forum full of J-style worshippers, there will probably be a pack of keyboard warriors ready to flame him for building a car that’s only fast in a straight line."

I hate when people have a narrow perspective on modifying cars. I understand the practical reasons for grouping together on a forum or club. Sharing first hand experience, simplifying selling parts, and admiring cars you are particularly fond of.

I think a lot of people care too much about the social end of the culture and not about the cars themselves. I grew up with a love for working on engines. I would go to the dump as a kid and bring home anything I could work on. I had a shelf of like, 15 briggs motors I had fixed in my early teens. This eventually branched off into motorcycles and cars. I think my love of cars is really about the elements, I like any cool motor, any interesting design and things I've never seen.

I think the lack of this kind of interest is what keeps me distant from heavy participation in any scene. Sometimes hack-job workmanship and ill conceived projects do bother me, and forums put in right in your face, but everyone has to start somewhere. I kind of groan at some of the things I did to my first project car back in the day.
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Re: everyone should read this! stop the h8t3rz

Post by SubyFusion »

Good article! I have to admit I am guilty of judging a lot it's just hard some times, but I try to be understanding " To each his own" I try and remember that!
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Re: everyone should read this! stop the h8t3rz

Post by Legacy777 »

vrg3 wrote:And there's an insidious thing that's happening in the tech world...

It's interesting you bring that up about the tech world. I just bought a tablet, Asus Transformer Prime. Some people have issues with the wifi & gps, but overall I'm pretty happy with it. I was d/l some software from Asus's website and they have a program that will "unlock" the device, but they state that it voids all warranty, won't receive updates, etc etc. Here's an excerpt from it:
Unlock Device App: Unlock boot loader(Only works with TF201 ICS OS)
Notice:
1. Only suitable for Andriod4.0 Ice Cream Sandwich OS version.
2. Before you download, install, and use the Unlock Device App you acknowledge and assume complete risk to the quality and performance of this App, including but not limited to the following: once you activate the App you will not be able to recover your ASUS product (“Original Product”) back to original locked conditions;the Original Product with the activated App will not be deemed the Original Product; the Revised Product will no longer be covered under the warranty of the Original Product; the software of Revised Product will no longer be deemed the software of the Original Product and can no longer receive ASUS software updates; your purchased digital content may also be affected.

You also acknowledge ASUS does not guarantee service satisfaction to any Revised Product, including events involving paid service requested by you to be performed to the Revised Product.
Furthermore, such repaired Revised Product will not be covered under the warranty of the Original Product; the software of the repaired Revised Product will not be deemed the software of the Original Product and will not receive ASUS software updates.
It is strongly advised that you avoid activating this App unless you fully understand and accept the risks that may arise.
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Re: everyone should read this! stop the h8t3rz

Post by vrg3 »

Yeah, to me that seems so wrong!

We often refer to the Magnuson-Moss Act when we talk about car modifications, which says that a manufacturer can't deny a warranty claim just because the item in question has aftermarket parts instaleld or has been serviced by a third party. Of course, they still have the right to deny a claim if the parts or service -- and not a manufacturing defect -- are the cause of the problem.

Magnuson-Moss wasn't in any way specific to motor vehicles, though. It applies to all consumer warranties in the United States.

Wording like what you quoted seems like a way to get around Magnuson-Moss (in fact, I wonder if it would hold up in court). They're essentially saying, "Alright, remember that warranty that we had agreed upon when you bought this tablet? It's void now. You're installing your own software on it, so now if it turns out the headphones jack was faulty and stops working, or if the solder joints on the power jack were bad and it catches fire, or the screen's backlight fails prematurely, you're on your own."

That's cool that you're happy with your Transformer Prime, and from what I can tell it's a pretty good tablet. The issue is what happens if one day you decide you don't want some of its memory taken up by the Asus cloud storage software. Or what if you want to remove the News and Weather app because you don't want your tablet sending your geographic location to a web server behind your back? Or what if you decide you don't want your tablet doing anything behind your back, so you want to just install only software that (like Android itself) is open source, so you can see what its code makes it do?

Imagine if a carmaker were to say, "Okay, you can put aftermarket seats in that car, but if the fuel pump fails later on, you're on your own." That's an extreme example, of course, but it's something that we, the car-modifying minority of the population, will need to stay vigilant of.
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Re: everyone should read this! stop the h8t3rz

Post by Legacy777 »

Yeah....times are changing.....

I haven't been too thrilled about any new cars in a while. The BRZ looks like a fun car, completely impractical though for a daily driver for myself.
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Re: everyone should read this! stop the h8t3rz

Post by Rubasu »

Bump!
90 legacy Wagon LS Special, JDM closed deck 20g, custom 25d heads f/ metic motors, APS GC FMIC, 740cc, VF34, 4.11 F/D, Turboxs RFL blow off valve, now with piggyback.
94 Legacy SS R.I.P (parts car now for 90)
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Re: everyone should read this! stop the h8t3rz

Post by dscoobydoo »

I have to admit, I might not like a lot of what I see, but I admire those who put the effort to do what they did to their car.

BUT, if you go REALLY CHEAP, I might say something................
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Re: everyone should read this! stop the h8t3rz

Post by entirelyturbo »

My opinion, and I'll keep it as short as I can, is that 90% of the car scene as it's portrayed in this article has nothing to do with enthusiasm about the automobile itself... it's about ego and general dick-swinging, and for the most part, I'm tired of it and refuse to participate in it anymore.

Ironically, I've been mostly ostracized from the local Subaru scene since I got the B4. With the exception of the people I've known from long ago (and even their attitude has changed), it almost seems like they feel threatened by me or something. I didn't get the car to try to one-up everyone; I had the chance to get it and I wanted it, so I got it. I'll have owned it for two years in September, and I've gone through some fucked-up shit personally and financially just to keep it. Why? Because I love the car! I still feel like a 12-year-old kid every time I drive it. It actually motivates me and reminds me why I do what I do. But a lot of other people don't see it that way, I suppose. So, for the most part, I don't even talk to any Subaru people around here anymore, and, strangely enough... I don't miss them that much anyway.

I've tried to be the diplomat that transcends 'party lines', and by that I mean import vs. domestic, power vs. handling, drag racing vs. road racing vs. drifting, whatever... and it never works. Even if I get a good conversation started up with a typical Camaro or Mustang guy, the mood changes as soon as I tell them what I drive... like I'm secretly trying to infiltrate their mafia or something.

Realistically, those of us who are approaching, or are already in, their 30s (I'm 28 now) should have the sense to move beyond this kind of crap. I do admit that I met several of my best friends at car meets, or because of cars in some form or another. But my relationships with them aren't based on what kind of cars we drive... in fact, one of my best friends races a GT1 Camaro in the SCCA and doesn't give a rat's ass about imports. That doesn't matter to either of us. We're actual personal friends... we hang out, watch movies, drink beer, and help each other through problems... not just talk about cars.

Basically, I've been around this environment long enough to figure out who's in it because they love it, and who's in it just because they need to prove something to somebody... and it's sad to say, but the latter far outnumber the former.

Like others have said though, this forum really is the exception to the rule. In December, I'll have been a member here 10 years, and even though I don't post like I used to, this is the only car community on the Internet I have any interest in anymore.
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Re: everyone should read this! stop the h8t3rz

Post by evolutionmovement »

Mike, your points made me realize that the dick swinging I think of as being particularly bad with cars, but suspected is about the same with anything, probably is particularly bad with cars because cars are so accessible to anyone. Yeah, there's some dick swinging with boats, say, but that's not something that's necessary to have or as cheap nor is it something that's so easy to use to show off and even working in a marina, I rarely saw anything like the car scene (my marina was dominated by sport fishers, sailboats, and cruisers, so maybe go-fast boat dominated areas would be different). The car could be some over extended ass clown's only possession, but it can make them look what they consider to be cool everywhere they go. It's far easier to buy some parts for a car to project an image than to actually be cool yourself. Of course, I've never met anyone who spends everything on a toy to be cool or interesting, so I'm not sure why these particular peacock feathers still fool anyone. Maybe they only fool the like minded.
Midnight in a Perfect World on Amazon or order anywhere. The first book in a quartet chronicling the rise of a man from angry criminal to philanthropist. Midnight... is a distopic noirish novel featuring 'Duchess', a modified 1990 Subaru Legacy wagon.
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everyone should read this! stop the h8t3rz

Post by entirelyturbo »

Along those same lines of boats being less accessible (and to most people, less useful) and generally a more expensive hobby than cars, that means that only people with a significant amount of expendable income can justify owning and operating a boat, meaning those people are usually older, who don't care what anyone else thinks anymore and just want to enjoy themselves.

It follows then, logically, that a lot of the dick-swinging in the car world is mostly just immaturity.


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"Der Wahnsinn ist nur eine schmale Brücke/die Ufer sind Vernunft und Trieb"

*Formerly DerFahrer*

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Re: everyone should read this! stop the h8t3rz

Post by evolutionmovement »

Or they could be spoiled rich kids, but I immaturity is the core. With boats or aircraft, it's mostly about enjoying nature or company, not mental Viagra of the moar pow3r crowd's toys. It's also about trying to impress women and make themselves feel superior to other dudes, which is an insecurity less likely to be found in the kind of more individual and secure person who, say, is a pilot or a enjoys sailing. In either case, even aside form the money aspect, owning either a boat or aircraft (even an ultralight) easily trumps the typical me-too performance car when it comes to women. Even my modest wood kayak, not yet finished being refinished, has just helped me meet someone I really like.
Midnight in a Perfect World on Amazon or order anywhere. The first book in a quartet chronicling the rise of a man from angry criminal to philanthropist. Midnight... is a distopic noirish novel featuring 'Duchess', a modified 1990 Subaru Legacy wagon.
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Re: everyone should read this! stop the h8t3rz

Post by Legacy777 »

Mike,

Good points, and I pretty much agree with everything. I really do not hang out with any of the local subaru people. Some of the old-school guys I'll chat with occasionally, and even some of the newer people are decent, but I don't go to the events....maybe one a year if I'm lucky. However I met some of my close friends through the local scene and it is what it is.

BTW....are you planning on going to SEMA this year? I've been wanting to go for a long time, and am really going to try and make the schedule work out.....
Josh

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Re: everyone should read this! stop the h8t3rz

Post by Apex3 »

Meh, if you ask for my opinion that's what you'll get, I'm not here to make you feel better about yourself, I know if I asked for opinions I'd want an honest answer, I'm also not terribly concerned about what you think though. If you don't ask for my opinion though I try to keep my mouth shut.

As for Subaru owners in particular, I've found that WRX owners are generally not car people at all, and that's where the d bags come in, problem is it's the cool car to have now, just like Civics were a few years back, so a lot of people aren't buying them because they're good cars. Nasioc is one big classifieds section to me, the rest of it is of no use. I can't stand most WRX people and avoid them as much as I can. And I'm purposefully singling out WRXs because other Subaru owners seem to be fine. And of course that doesn't apply to all of them, just a general trend, personally I blame this guy:

Image
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Re: everyone should read this! stop the h8t3rz

Post by entirelyturbo »

I've found the exact opposite: usually the only people I can even halfway level with in the Subaru community own WRXs... it's the STi people that I can't stand.

But there are people like that in every profession and every hobby. In no way am I a professional photographer, but there are people I know who take even worse pictures than I do that think they're Ansel fucking Adams just because they have a DSLR and Photoshop.

I think part of growing up and being a mature adult is learning to pick those people out and decide not to waste your time interacting with them or even trying to reveal them for who they are. Life's too short; your time would be better utilized by spending it with real professionals who are more than willing to spend time with those eager to learn a particular profession. Those are people with true class and character.

Josh, I may go to SEMA this year, I dunno yet. John from Black Ops Performance and I are working on something that we hope will be a very successful project, and our plan is to take it to the next level at SEMA if it comes to fruition. Once the time approaches, I'll let you know.
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"Der Wahnsinn ist nur eine schmale Brücke/die Ufer sind Vernunft und Trieb"

*Formerly DerFahrer*

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Re: everyone should read this! stop the h8t3rz

Post by CAV3MAN227 »

-I really liked that article. I haven't encountered to much but as I see it, the people with money (rich), top of the line ride (sometimes), or have a car payment are the ones that always have to say something. But I just laugh at the people who talk negatively, someone who has an sti talking about, "why would fix up a wrx when you could just get an sti like me", then next thing you know, there selling all there aftermarket parts cause they sold the car, repo'ed, etc. anyway...
-I'm just glad to be a part of bbs and this community. I've never seen any problems here. Its always about helping others, great information, cool rides, etc.

-Joe
-I'd rather loose by a mile because I built my own car, than win by an inch cause someone else built it for me. Your car, is your story, so don't let someone else write the book. ~Moog
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Re: everyone should read this! stop the h8t3rz

Post by Apex3 »

DerFahrer wrote:I've found the exact opposite: usually the only people I can even halfway level with in the Subaru community own WRXs... it's the STi people that I can't stand.

But there are people like that in every profession and every hobby. In no way am I a professional photographer, but there are people I know who take even worse pictures than I do that think they're Ansel fucking Adams just because they have a DSLR and Photoshop.

I think part of growing up and being a mature adult is learning to pick those people out and decide not to waste your time interacting with them or even trying to reveal them for who they are. Life's too short; your time would be better utilized by spending it with real professionals who are more than willing to spend time with those eager to learn a particular profession. Those are people with true class and character.

Josh, I may go to SEMA this year, I dunno yet. John from Black Ops Performance and I are working on something that we hope will be a very successful project, and our plan is to take it to the next level at SEMA if it comes to fruition. Once the time approaches, I'll let you know.
STi people are definitely worse usually.

When I was about 14 I made my parents stop when we were in Yosemite so I could take a picture, only do get home and see the SAME DAMN PICTURE hanging on my wall, never having seen it before, and come to find out it's an Ansel Adams picture. I was so mad :lol: I guess my point is I am Ansel Adams 8)

In any case, yea I agree with you. I'm actually a pretty judgmental person and because of that I don't get along with a lot of car people in general, and typically I avoid conversations about cars with people until I find out that we have some common knowledge/interest(and that doesn't mean just having a similar car).
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