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 Post subject: OEM recommends 7,500 mile oil change interval.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:06 am 
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My friend and I were working on his 92 integra and on the side of the engine bay there was a sticker on the fuse box or something that said to change the oil every 7,500 miles. I've seen this before in older cars' manuals. Seems to me they're lieing to us now saying 3,000 or 5,000 miles. This wasn't even for synthetic oil which nobody really used 20 years ago anyway. On my metro I change the oil probably twice a year at most. Full synthetic 170,000 miles on it of which I've driven 95,000 miles myself changing the oil this way. And these cars are supposed to burn up exhaust valves or need new rings or rebuilt head after 150k miles. No such problems! Last time I checked compression was about 195 across the board.

My other cars I've changed pretty much every 7-10k miles with no problems either and my first legacy I only did the oil once a year with amsoil and amsoil filter. The ss gets changed more frequently because of the turbo but not 3k. I think once in the last 10k so every 5k.

Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: OEM recommends 7,500 mile oil change interval.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:30 pm 
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Most newer cars than ours specify change intervals from 7,500 up to 15,000 or more. The 3,000 mile oil change is from the dark old days of the 60's and 70's when the oil was not as good and the engines were not as clean running. Nowadays, it persists as a myth. At least it won't hurt anything but your wallet to change that often. Even with modern dino oil, any modern car should be able to go for at least 5-7k without a change. Synthetic should be even better. Of course, a turbocharged vehicle puts more thermal stress on the oil, so be wary of running with 10k+ intervals. Also, lots of short trips can lead to fuel and water contamination of the oil so if you only drive a couple miles to work or something, you should change the oil every few months regardless of mileage.

If you really want to see how your oil is doing, send some to Blackstone Labs and have it analyzed next time you change your oil.

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 Post subject: Re: OEM recommends 7,500 mile oil change interval.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:45 pm 
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Yeah, an oil analysis is really the only way to know whether the longer changer intervals are ok. The oil additive package also wears out over time, and the level of oil filtration you have can also play a role in how long you should go between changes.

For a city driven vehicle with short trips, I agree it should be changed more frequently, despite mileage.

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 Post subject: Re: OEM recommends 7,500 mile oil change interval.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:17 pm 
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Yup, been required on many newer Subarus for a while.
Image

Unless as others have stated, it's classified as "severe driving conditions". 2011 MY Federal Specifications Vehicles, then change every 3,750.

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 Post subject: Re: OEM recommends 7,500 mile oil change interval.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:36 pm 
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I believe my dodge diesel in the manual says 7500 miles. I'm so glad the dealer still changes it for free (life time unlimited oil change) when it is our main line truck it gets changed every 11 days (3000 miles). Money in my pocket.

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 Post subject: OEM recommends 7,500 mile oil change interval.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:03 am 
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I'm using the Subaru synthetic 5W30 oil in the B4 and still changing it every 3,000 miles. I may go over by a couple hundred miles at the most, but I won't do a 7500-mile interval.

I consider the heat here in Florida to be severe driving conditions, and I do get on it somewhat frequently. Furthermore, I have two turbos that I can't just find sitting around somewhere, at least not in the US.

It's not cheap, but doing the oil change myself and getting a wholesale discount from the dealer helps a lot.


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 Post subject: Re: OEM recommends 7,500 mile oil change interval.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:19 am 
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I use rotella t5 semisynthetic 10w30 and I change the oil every 3-4k miles. Stuff's cheap enough and rated really good. It's about $13 a gallon at walmart. No complaints so far.

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 Post subject: Re: OEM recommends 7,500 mile oil change interval.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:12 am 
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I always use synthetic and I did every 7500 or so in the Legacy, 10k in the Mazda3 and 2012 Focus (which is also about when the computer tells me it's time to change it). Mazda ran like new when I traded it with 156k and didn't use a detectable amount of oil between changes. Legacy engine looked almost new inside near 250k. Ford's got almost 50k, so it's too young to tell, but also uses no oil between changes. At over 40k miles/yr., I sure as hell wouldn't change every 3k anyway. An old boss never changed the oil in his Taurus and he had either over 60k or 80k on it, I can't remember exactly. Seemed to run as fine as any other old Taurus. I can't say I recommend that, though.

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 Post subject: Re: OEM recommends 7,500 mile oil change interval.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:24 pm 
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I have an '05 Saturn Ion with the oil life system (tells you when to change your oil assuming OEM-rated oil and analyzing your driving and the conditions). I thought it was broken, because I reset the system when I changed the oil when I first got the car, and the oil change indicator never came on. In the owner's manual and on forums, they always just say follow the oil life system. Apparently there's no OEM recommendation for oil change intervals on most of their cars. Finally, 1 year and about 10,000 miles later, I changed the oil myself before I got deployed. I didn't reset it after the change this time. A week later the oil change light finally came on it's own. Had the wife reset it... now we know, GM thinks the car will be good going 10K+ between oil changes.

When it was changed, the oil looked/smelled about the same as oil changed at 3000 or 5000 miles. This car wasn't babied either, I've had it at an Auto-X and redline 1-2 shifts that chirped the tires weren't too uncommon. Obviously GM is going against the oil industry's (and even other carmakers') common advice. I think it's worth mentioning that we typically didn't make really short trips that didn't fully heat the engine/oil, which I have a feeling plays a bigger part in oil life of clean-running engines (not dumping blow-by gases or fuel into the oil) than anything else, unless the engine is turbocharged or has poor thermal design.

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 Post subject: Re: OEM recommends 7,500 mile oil change interval.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 7:55 pm 
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Yeah, I think it's just BS spread by the oil and resellers. I have one of those fearful people as an uncle who argued with me about this, insisting on 3k mile oil changes so as "not to take the chance" on his yellow 2000 V6 Mustang (picture the type now?). Whatever, it's his time (under the car with his bad back) and money. There are a lot of people out there like my uncle that, once they latch onto a propaganda that hits the right fear buttons, no amount of logic or reason will move them from it. These people would keep swinging a hammer to knock down buildings over using a bulldozer and a wrecking ball because "it's the way they've always done it". Evolution eventually marks marks these people who are unable to adapt for deletion, but in the meantime, we all have to suffer their attitudes. This is why I do not believe in Democracy. One person's ignorant opinion is as valued as the educated and intelligent one. Nope. Some people are meant for little more than slavery. Not that I'm advocating a return to slavery . . . not exactly, but a system where these people could comfortably do the same thing day and day out without too much scary challenge while providing the rest of us with the essential menial services that need doing, freeing up the intelligent and creative of all races and backgrounds (many of which whose brilliance is now being wasted in said menial work), would make us all happier and better off.

Sorry, it's been a while since I threw in an Evolution Movement rant, but election season is getting to me.

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 Post subject: Re: OEM recommends 7,500 mile oil change interval.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:31 pm 
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At the opposite end of that is people like my sister in law, who has an 06 Kia Spectra. Goes almost a year between changes, and to her a car is an appliance. She is incredibly smart and definitely gets that oil should be changed.

So I see her once or twice a year at a family gathering, and her tractor sounding Kia with <100k miles on it. Original coolant and ATF also I must mention. I 'make' her get ultra mileage Mobile 1 - the stuff guaranteed for 15k miles, and an M1 oil filter as well ("OMG! $45 dollars to change the oil!"). Problem is her car burns a bit of oil over the course of the year, so by the time I see it, it's about 2 quarts low, and almost all of her trips are short ones. I really don't think gender plays a huge role in this (maybe it does?), as when I worked in the junk yard, most of the cars we got were mostly guy driven and abused. Well mostly younger guys.

So Steve, maybe your uncle is a little more proactive than usual for changing oil above and beyond what is needed these days, but I appreciate that he cares enough for his car that it's more than an appliance. People like him contribute the best condition (though usually highest mileage) cars that hit the junkyard.

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 Post subject: Re: OEM recommends 7,500 mile oil change interval.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:48 pm 
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I know a lot of young people nowadays, regardless of intelligence, see maintaining anything as a chore and a burden and have a absolute disgust for doing it (car or otherwise). They will fix/replace things, but have no concept of putting time/energy/money into making sure something goes as long as possible before failure occurs. The most you can hope for is for them to keep it looking good, because that provides an immediate gratification for the labor they put out.

Case in point, my own wife, who knows damn well that the tires on our Ion are probably running a few psi low and it's starting to hurt fuel economy. She can do all regular maintenance herself to include wheels/tires, spark plugs, brakes, etc. But simply can't be relied on to do any of it in my absence if it's not affecting how the car drives. But at least she will pick up on odd sounds and warning lights and take action to correct those issues, but only because she's seen friends send their cars to the junk yard ignoring those things.

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 Post subject: Re: OEM recommends 7,500 mile oil change interval.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:33 am 
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I'm not faulting someone for taking care of their stuff, but it's just unnecessary (and not even as advised in the manual) and it causes him pain with his back problems (legit, as he's had several operations and still has chronic pain). Keeping it in a garage rather than outside (as he does) would do far more for the car's longevity than unnecessary oil changes (which don't do anything). But I think you struck upon another thing—the people that tend to baby their cars the most when they actually buy something potentially interesting, usually get the most boring ass version (like an older V6 auto Mustang—really, to save a couple mpg in a sporty-ish car he drives maybe 10k miles a year and still doesn't get good mileage, he takes a big hit in resale and a less rewarding driving experience in exchange) because they're bought by uncool people who think they can buy cool with a certain car, but being uncool, they still don't get it. Granted, the boring versions (sedans vs. coupes, autos vs. manuals) are almost always sold in greater numbers, but being that the more interesting versions are sold to more enthusiast types, you'd think they'd survive in greater numbers due to us caring about them, but in most cases they don't (probably crash them too much). The low original mile "little old lady" cars are usually the auto sedans with the smallest engine (though I have seen some exceptions and props to those old ladies!), which is too bad.

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 Post subject: Re: OEM recommends 7,500 mile oil change interval.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:25 pm 
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James614 wrote:
I know a lot of young people nowadays, regardless of intelligence, see maintaining anything as a chore and a burden and have a absolute disgust for doing it (car or otherwise). They will fix/replace things, but have no concept of putting time/energy/money into making sure something goes as long as possible before failure occurs.


We have become a disposable society....it's really quite sad. So everything from cars, to electronics, to appliances, etc are built for that disposable society. I just find it very sad....and Jeremy Clarkson on Top Gear backs me up in saying that.....they could have made it great or the best they could, but because of bean counters, society, etc they didn't. They just made it to the level so it was ok. There's another term for that, it's called apathy, and if you look back at the great societies that once were....that is what usually marks the beginning of the decline.


And yes, this topic has gone off topic from the oil change interval ;)

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 Post subject: Re: OEM recommends 7,500 mile oil change interval.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:55 pm 
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Legacy777 wrote:
And yes, this topic has gone off topic from the oil change interval ;)

Or has it? Maybe something seemingly as simple as how often you change your oil actually tells the story of a civilization about to crumble.

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 Post subject: Re: OEM recommends 7,500 mile oil change interval.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:33 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: OEM recommends 7,500 mile oil change interval.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:15 am 
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Legacy777 wrote:
There's another term for that, it's called apathy,

AKA profitability.
Why design a thing to last forever when you can design it to last X long and build it cheaper, then sell the customer a new one when it inevitably wears out? Planned obsolescence is a marketing/design strategy. Its also a symptom of the market. Consumers want more for less and will get it. There's only one way (that I'm aware of) to give more features for the same or less money.
Its really a sign of free market capitalism at work. What we really need is more gov't regulation to ensure that things are built to a level of standard of quality. Y'know to ensure our mindless consumer safety. :roll:

(now we're way off topic)

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 Post subject: Re: OEM recommends 7,500 mile oil change interval.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:46 am 
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beatersubi wrote:
What we really need is more gov't regulation to ensure that things are built to a level of standard of quality. Y'know to ensure our mindless consumer safety. :roll:

Actually, I'd disagree. Take away the ludicrous amounts of credit people can get nowadays and make them live on what they actually make, and see how quickly they start realizing that function and longevity mean a helluva lot more looking nice and being immediately gratifying.

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 Post subject: Re: OEM recommends 7,500 mile oil change interval.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:30 pm 
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It's not as simple as credit. Credit isn't the problem, it's part of the plot and I don't mean to imply some ridiculous conspiracy theory at work, but the natural progression of greater influence of industry which has been increasing its influence at greater rates every year (with huge jumps after WW2 and in the 1980s) going along with their increase of income at the expense of everyone else—it's an insidious pattern of pervasive conditioning over generations due to the "free market" controlling the "free society". The government regulations are to appease the populace so they blindly buy up the identity-equating products they've been sold on over being taught how to find that for themselves (unlike the Greatest Generation who survived a time of marketing's infancy, the capability to build/repair much of what was sold, and little ability to buy shit anyway. Plus, finding yourself takes work and people are generally fucking lazy) and to control the playing field of influence. It's all power struggles between industry and the need to balance populace control (can't go around poisoning everyone or they get mad. . .or at least you can't do it all the time). Other 1st world nations with similar credit situations don't have the level of insecurity the citizens of the the US do because what they don't have is the intensity of coordinated marketing undermining and influencing government education and not just marketing products, but marketing nationalism. A lot of people I meet from other countries are amazed at all the flag waving they see here and I'm in New England where there's less of that. Marketing driven identification of national identity is mixed with the consuming of goods in a swirl most people can't see their way out of or even know they're in one, particularly with the systematic corruption and undermining of non-affiliated educational institutions (just look how educated "elite" are looked down upon and how many people doubt things like evolution because THEYTM've taken the governmental distrust that built up during the Cold War for various reasons and turned it on everything government provides while squeezing and dumbing down important teachings like science and math for the average person. I'm waiting for clean water standards to be attacked and we're all sold on Gatorade because it's got electrolytes).

Sure, there are posers and losers in other countries who equate monetary worth to human value (and even clueless rich people who think they're hated because everyone's jealous of them and not because of their appalling actions. The difference between being rich and being wealthy is that wealth has power while the rich are just bigger consumer "cogs in the machine".), but other countries don't have an entire radical wing of a political party that's a willing puppet for rich industry to further its influence by glorifying greed in some bizarre, hypocritical melding of twisted biblical teachings (specifically and decidedly OLD testament at that) and the soulless, unsustainable, sociopathic narcissism of Rand which is an affront to the cooperation that humans evolved on due to the weak individual physical attributes that would have us defenseless in the wild and the necessity of such cooperation for the development and sustaining of the civilization and the goods we have today. Even war is ultimately cooperative. Marketing to go with the planned obsolescence, which was a natural progression of the free market going from small scale craftsman-built, simple goods sold to the self-sufficient to much cheaper huge-scale mass production of increasingly more complicated ones and a division between low end consumer goods everyone could get and the high end that marked out the upper class. Instead of being happy affording a dresser without having to save 4 years (and could reasonably be expected to last centuries), they aspired (argh, marketing speak!) to have the expensive ones to look better than their peers (to my amusement, rich people still do this even at their level, still insecurely trying to look richer around each other. Obviously, they don't feel the satisfaction that their money was the result of accomplishment to go with the BS line of natural superiority THEYTM try to sell us. Once again, wealthy vs. rich). For the simple mind, the deduction was/is: "better toys makes me better" and that is being exploited. It's not socialism to recognize the need for more parity in monetary worth since the driver for this decline is that disparity. As it widens, so does the opportunity for everyone else decrease both in bettering themselves both career-wise and personally and on keeping a check on the THEYTM as the stress of getting by overwhelms I also think this is a reason for their position on abortion and birth control as people with kids are even more stressed out, if they have them early, are less likely to get a good education, and are more susceptible to the lies). The funny thing is that all this is unsustainable, even for the megarich as an inevitable return to feudalism, while still better for the lord of the estate, was not better than today and certainly not better than our potential. More parity doesn't mean everyone gets the same amount, that's the other end of the extreme and extremes don't work. Anyone who's designed anything, built anything, or has had a relationship has had to learn that compromise is an integral part of the process and it's worth it, even necessary, for the benefit of everyone/thing involved (maybe another reason they are for turning back women's rights as then relationships don't require learning compromise. . .shit, can it be that thoroughly well planned or is it just that they've had so much time?). We're being sold childlike simplicity because they think we're stupid and that they've finally broken the educational system enough to do so. I think they're just about right.

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 Post subject: Re: OEM recommends 7,500 mile oil change interval.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:54 pm 
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Did anyone see the movie Branded? It's actually not too far off from the truth when it comes to marketing.

http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi1015653657/

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 Post subject: Re: OEM recommends 7,500 mile oil change interval.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:58 pm 
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I hate to be the guy that throws the wrench into the operation, but there are lots of problems with the direction this discussion is going.

Starting with this glaring contradiction:

Alphius wrote:
Most newer cars than ours specify change intervals from 7,500 up to 15,000 or more. The 3,000 mile oil change is from the dark old days of the 60's and 70's when the oil was not as good and the engines were not as clean running.


Legacy777 wrote:
We have become a disposable society....it's really quite sad. So everything from cars, to electronics, to appliances, etc are built for that disposable society.


So, which era are we in? One of better quality, or of disposable consumerism? Make up your minds.

Also, if cars are more disposable now than they were back then, why do old cars have 5-digit odometers while newer cars have odometers with 6 or even 7 digits?

I'm not going to get into a big, long rant, but I really hope this thread is one big trollfest, considering it includes a statement suggesting that someone's own family member belongs to a class of people so infantile that they deserve to be enslaved by a self-anointed 'superior' class of people, simply because they want to take care of their personal property (and significant monetary investment).

Or maybe I'm the one being trolled, I'm not sure.

Either way, this isn't 4chan, and we're not angsty teenagers anymore. Let's just get back to discussing oil change intervals.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:10 pm 
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Or was it the insult to Rand because I think you missed the point. Taking care of things is admirable, but mindlessly following marketing and not thinking for oneself makes one a slave in the first place. They put themselves there, so I'm suggesting a mutually beneficial arrangement. I worked with assembly lines and I can tell you there are many people who would like nothing more than to be able to do the same thing everyday without challenge, but with security (something they don't have presently). It would be a choice, not impressment. It could be marketed as the Free & Easy Plan.

But, you're right, continuing yet another oil change interval discussion where pretty much everything's been said is so much more interesting! I know, let's all discuss synthetic vs. dino again and argue brand vs. brand based on the marketing material we've read!

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 5:58 am 
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Location: Bellingham WA
I always find it hilarious how fired up people get over this oil change interval, and how it always seems to change into something else. If you want my .02 as a Subaru Master tech with 5yrs experience? 3750 for ALL turbos and about 50% for everybody else, and thats only if you care about your car. To those whom their car is just an appliance, sure you can go 10,000 miles between changes, and I guarantee your car will be fine...for the life of your 60,000 mile warranty cuz lets be honest that all the oem's care about. Most people fall into subaru's definition of severe use, this is coming from not only my instruction but also my experience. I've torn apart motors that have seen good maintenance but extended change intervals and they always seem to have sludge issues. Add in the fact that most people try to go as cheap as possible, and oil passages seem to be getting smaller and more and more stuff is running off of oil pressure, just seems like a good idea to me. Oh and I'm not going to even start about these new non lead engine bearings...now back to your regularly scheduled off topic rants...

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 Post subject: Re: OEM recommends 7,500 mile oil change interval.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:17 pm 
Fourth Gear
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2007 4:35 am
Posts: 1730
Location: All over the place
If you're using whatever cheapest oil you can find, I'd agree wish you. But with a good quality oil you know doesn't turn to chocolate cake under normal use, its just throwing money down the drain. But as a tech you tend to see he worst of everything, so it makes sense you'd be more cynical of extended intervals. Let me just say that my cars are not appliances, I use oil that I know from experience doesn't tend to sludge, and I take things like how frequently the car is driven and if its been inside or outside into consideration and also typically always drive at least long enough to bring the oil up to temperature. So I won't be caught dead pouring out perfectly good oil at 3750 miles, thank you.

And most OEMs care something about their cars lasting beyond the warranty. Honda/Toyota/Subaru/Volvo all have shorter warranties than Chrysler or GM. Without a pre existing reputation for their cars lasting so long as to make the warranty period largely irrelevant, they would have had to extend their warranties to remain competitive.

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 Post subject: Re: OEM recommends 7,500 mile oil change interval.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:54 pm 
In Neutral
Joined: Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:04 am
Posts: 26
Location: Livonia, NY
as an oils salesman and racer heres my take on this. there is no problem with doing oil changes at 7500 miles if youre using synthetics. the additive packages will hold up to and surpassing that point. the issue is the oil filters ability to clean the oil for that long. long life filters are starting to become available which can protect for the life of the oil. also in my race cars and turbo'd vehicles which run hotter are under more stress i recommend changing between 3-4000. or every race weekend.

on older cars as well, it is a good idea to change more frequently. there is a greater chance of pollutants getting kicked up and run through the system due to wear. also you can notice crud in the oil pan before it becomes an issue (i highly recommend magnetic drain plugs to catch filings)

Diesels go longer on oil changes because they dont hit the RPM's that gas engines do. diesels rarely exceed 3000-3500RPM where as the standard 4 banger is just getting into the power-band at the same point.

for the standard "appliance" car there is no need for synthetics. seriously. it is an up-sell that is well known, the car will not break down the oil before the filter needs to go. not to mention that we dont even sell conventional oil anymore, and neither do our competitors. everything is a synthetic/conventional blend.

theres a couple reasons for manufacturers to switch to synthetic however:
-piece of mind.
-we are a consumer based society and for the most part people aren't as involved with their cars as they used to be. not that we're lazier but its an out of sight out of mind issue for alot of people.
-car manufacturers are creating spec'd oils for their cars which are being supplied through the oil manufacturers (castrol, mobil, shell, etc.) nationally. it is no secret the throw back and rebate programs these companies provide; even on a lower scale such as service centers large incentives are offered. all of this can help either (a) line the pockets of some exec's at the top of the car companies. or( b) keep the price of ever advancing, expensive technologies reasonable to the end user.
-car manufacturers are releasing spec oils which have to meet a certain "standard". most notably GM's Dexos1. my company is a member of the Association of Independent Oil Distributors, we own and oil company collectively named Service-Pro. in order to meet the Dexos1 "standard" we first had to send them a check for $300k along with a sample of our product. they then test it and certify it; no changes were made to the product. then $.30 of every gallon sold goes back to GM. synthetics help this direction because $.30 on a $7 gallon of syn blend is alot more offensive than on a $10 gallon of synthetic.

manufacturers are turning towards thinner viscosity's because they are under stringent legislation to boost fuel economy by 2014. thinner oil= less friction. one issue i predict with automakers going to thinner viscosity's is the long term repercussions such as seepage through the rings. nowadays if your engine starts to get soft you can boost your viscosity and limit it to a certain extent. these new cars have such minute tolerances that they will not operate correctly without the right viscosity and sometimes not operate at all.


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