kimokalihi's 91 SS EJ20 Swap

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cj91legss
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Re: kimokalihi's 91 SS EJ20 Swap

Post by cj91legss »

hmm, well if your injectors are good then wth?
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Re: kimokalihi's 91 SS EJ20 Swap

Post by kimokalihi »

Doesn't mean they're not clogged though. Most likely it's something else though I think.
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Re: kimokalihi's 91 SS EJ20 Swap

Post by Legacy777 »

Kimo,

Your turbo is probably fine. If it spins freely and doesn't have shaft play it should be ok.

Regarding the oil and where it goes from the pickup. It goes from the pickup to the oil pump, and from the oil pump it goes to the filter.
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Re: kimokalihi's 91 SS EJ20 Swap

Post by kimokalihi »

That's good to hear. Thanks Josh.

My injectors were sent off to witchhunter performance up north and they should have got them today. I expect them back next week with a data report to see if they are flowing properly.
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Re: kimokalihi's 91 SS EJ20 Swap

Post by kimokalihi »

Worked on the engine for a quick hour today. Tried vice grips on that stripped cam retainer bolt with no luck. Just stripped it worse. Then I busted out the Hitachi and bolt extractor kit.

Drilled and set.

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Then this happened.

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I solved the problem like this.

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Of course as soon as I got the bolt head ground off the stupid bolt was loose enough to turn by hand. :roll: Now I need a new retainer and bolt. Can I use any EJ cam retainer and bolt?

Valves. Second picture you can see debris on the edges of the intake valves from the piston and rings.

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Cylinders

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#2 cylinder with bent rings, scored walls and very worn piston top.

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Here's how the #4 piston looks. Nice and flat with defined edges.

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Here you can see how detonation has deteriorated the top of the piston especially on the top side where the rings are bent down into the cylinder.

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I put the cams back in the head and installed the valve cover to keep it clean inside although there are now a couple metal shavings in there from the end grinder that will need to be cleaned out when/if this engine gets put back together. That's as far as I got today.
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Re: kimokalihi's 91 SS EJ20 Swap

Post by Deride »

As far as I know the cam caps are specific to those heads in their original positions. You would have to spend quite a bit of money at the machine shop to use different ones. Basically they are bolted onto the heads at the factory and line bored. You should be able to read the markings on them and put them back into the correct spots if you mixed any up. The bolts should be interchangeable though.
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Re: kimokalihi's 91 SS EJ20 Swap

Post by evolutionmovement »

For the future, They (yes, the same "They" that seem to get into everything) also make external extractors that fit around nuts/bolt heads. I think that would've worked here.
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Re: kimokalihi's 91 SS EJ20 Swap

Post by cj91legss »

Kimo, were you using a 6 point socket or a 12 point socket to try to get that bolt out when you stripped it?
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Re: kimokalihi's 91 SS EJ20 Swap

Post by beatersubi »

Definitely were getting some knock. Will be interesting to see the results of the injector tests. Were they labeled by cylinder when you sent them off?
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Re: kimokalihi's 91 SS EJ20 Swap

Post by PhyrraM »

Cam retainer caps are unique to each head/location. The proper way to proceed is to have a machine shop mill the "ground" side of the cap flat again. You may need a slightly shorter bolt if you took off too much material.


Let's see what the injector tests look like when they come back. Think it's possible that *maybe* Rob's tune was a tad too aggressive (timing, not fuel) for your local gas or the Forester EJ20G compression ratio?
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Re: kimokalihi's 91 SS EJ20 Swap

Post by kimokalihi »

Deride wrote:As far as I know the cam caps are specific to those heads in their original positions. You would have to spend quite a bit of money at the machine shop to use different ones. Basically they are bolted onto the heads at the factory and line bored. You should be able to read the markings on them and put them back into the correct spots if you mixed any up. The bolts should be interchangeable though.
Swell. Good to know thanks. Just wish I had known that beforehand but my fault. I did take a good bit off the retainer on accident.
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Re: kimokalihi's 91 SS EJ20 Swap

Post by kimokalihi »

cj91legss wrote:Kimo, were you using a 6 point socket or a 12 point socket to try to get that bolt out when you stripped it?
12 point. I was drunk. But I almost think that wasn't the cause of it. They were really hard to break loose. Even the ones I removed when I was sober today.
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Re: kimokalihi's 91 SS EJ20 Swap

Post by kimokalihi »

beatersubi wrote:Definitely were getting some knock. Will be interesting to see the results of the injector tests. Were they labeled by cylinder when you sent them off?
Yes sir. Unfortunately I had to call them up today and tell them to postpone them until friday when I get paid because I needed the money in my bank before then. The guy told me they were working on them when I called. Hopefully that doesn't mess anything up.
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Re: kimokalihi's 91 SS EJ20 Swap

Post by kimokalihi »

PhyrraM wrote:Let's see what the injector tests look like when they come back. Think it's possible that *maybe* Rob's tune was a tad too aggressive (timing, not fuel) for your local gas or the Forester EJ20G compression ratio?
Definitely possible. But who knows. No need to jump to conclusions.
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Re: kimokalihi's 91 SS EJ20 Swap

Post by kimokalihi »

Just to get a rough idea here, how much would it cost to rebuild this engine?

I'm assuming the cylinders will all need to be bored out or honed. That means larger pistons and rings right? Plus might as well put new bearings in. Valve work while the head is out? Going to need to have that damn cam retainer fixed. All new gaskets.

It already sounds very expensive. Should I just buy another engine? What about this WRX EJ20 block in Seattle:

WRX EJ20 92K miles with a bad bearing. Says it was never raced or abused but that's hard to believe considering it has a bad bearing and less than 100K miles. Only $150 though and there would be no machine work to be done on it or mabe there will I don't know. Will it bolt up to my 97 JDM EJ20G heads?

http://seattle.craigslist.org/see/pts/2028985380.html
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Re: kimokalihi's 91 SS EJ20 Swap

Post by evolutionmovement »

I'm usually more a fan of the Devil You Know, myself. You know with that one that you're starting off with a "bad bearing", but you don't know what the full extent of the issue is. Might just be a bearing, but might be more. Though I suppose, maybe you could make a good one out of the two of them at worst.
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Re: kimokalihi's 91 SS EJ20 Swap

Post by kimokalihi »

Yeah, somebody selling a shortblock with a bad bearing for $150 from a 2002 WRX with only 92K miles is sketchy.
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Re: kimokalihi's 91 SS EJ20 Swap

Post by mike-tracy »

I've seen them go for the low low price of free. Mostly from guys who kill their motors and put in a 2.5 block instead of rebuild. So you don't know until you inspect it.
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Re: kimokalihi's 91 SS EJ20 Swap

Post by beatersubi »

I don't see any reason why that cam bearing cap wouldn't work. So long as the bolt head mating surface was made true and a small washer used to take up the clearance of the material removed.
My vote is for a 2.5 short block. I know a guy who has one. PM me.


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Re: kimokalihi's 91 SS EJ20 Swap

Post by cj91legss »

kimokalihi wrote:
cj91legss wrote:Kimo, were you using a 6 point socket or a 12 point socket to try to get that bolt out when you stripped it?
12 point. I was drunk. But I almost think that wasn't the cause of it. They were really hard to break loose. Even the ones I removed when I was sober today.
Lock up your 12 point sockets when you start drinking :P
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Re: kimokalihi's 91 SS EJ20 Swap

Post by Legacy777 »

kimokalihi wrote:Just to get a rough idea here, how much would it cost to rebuild this engine?

That just depends on what you want to put back in and what is reusable. Assuming you use the stock parts, minus pistons, you're probably looking at about 450 for pistons, 100-200 for machining, 200 or so for rebuild, 200-300 for bearings, and a little bit for misc. So you're looking at around or a little over $1,000 to rebuild it. If you can find a good used motor, that may be a better option.

I know some will say you can rebuild it cheaper, which may be the case, but when you start tearing into it, there's always things that come up.
Josh

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kimokalihi
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Re: kimokalihi's 91 SS EJ20 Swap

Post by kimokalihi »

Yeah that's not worth it for a stock motor.
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Re: kimokalihi's 91 SS EJ20 Swap

Post by kimokalihi »

Injectors came back in the mail today. Looks like they were in great shape. Now I'm lost. Why would one cylinder appear to have bad detonation and not the rest. Granted I haven't pulled the other head so I guess the other 2 cylinders may have detonation as well.

Time for process of elimination. Injectors are off the list. If it was indeed only detonating in one cylinder that could mean many things right? Perhaps higher compression in that cylinder due to better rings and valve seats? Or faulty wiring to the injector may have caused intermittent flow loss. Or maybe some sort of obstruction in the fuel rail? Then there's the ECU and patch harness.

Here's the results from the flow testing and cleaning. I'll get pictures when I find my camera.

Resistance Test - 11.0 - 10.9 - 10.9 - 10.9
Leak Test - Pass - Pass - Pass - Pass
Spray Pattern - Good - Good - Good - Good
Static Flow
Before - 174 - 172 - 175 - 171
After - 175 - 174 - 176 - 176
Pulsed Flow
Before - 104.5 - 103 - 105 - 102.5
After - 105 - 105.5 - 106 - 105.5
cc/min @ 43.5 psi - 525 - 522 - 528 - 528
Static Variance - Before 2.3% After 1.1%
Pulsed Variance - Before 2.4% After 0.9%


Without knowing really anything about flow testing, those numbers look good to me. I now highly doubt the injectors to be the causing of the detonation. I need to figure it out before I put together another engine and blow it up!


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Last edited by kimokalihi on Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: kimokalihi's 91 SS EJ20 Swap

Post by evolutionmovement »

Hot spot? It appears like the flame front kept starting at about the same point—somewhere about the intake side.
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Re: kimokalihi's 91 SS EJ20 Swap

Post by kimokalihi »

Yup. What does that mean? I understand the hot spot but what do you think caused it?
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