Maciek's 2.36L Turbo Build (and boom goes #4 rod bearing!)

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macipusy
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Re: Maciek's 2.36L Turbo Build (Update with pics 3.24.14)

Post by macipusy »

I've been paying attention to my oil pressure today, on the RSTi. I noticed that after oil is warmed up, it tops out at ~50 psi. Basically from 3K RPM all the way up to 7K, it does not get above 48-52 psi. I am running Rotella T 15W40. Should I be concerned? I'm unsure about the safe range of psi to RPM values.
Last edited by macipusy on Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
maciek puszynski

01 Impreza | v6 STi RA | 5mt | ej236t
93 Legacy Turbo | TW | 4eat | ej22t
16 WRX | 6mt | fa20
98 Legacy GT | wagon | 5mt | ej25d


2.36L Turbo - RSTi Build
dankberries
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Re: Maciek's 2.36L Turbo Build (Update with pics 3.24.14)

Post by dankberries »

Here are my ranges at this temperature in CO:
Mobil 1synthetic 5w30 - cold start 95psi, warm idle 20-30psi, 3500rpm 45-55psi, 7000rpm 75-85psi
Mobil 1 synthetic 15w50 - cold start 100+psi, warm idle 35+psi, 3500rpm 60-70psi, 7000rpm 90+psi.
Currently using Mobil 1 synthetic 5w30, thinking about changing to 5w40synthetic or 10w30 with increasing summer temps.

From the 92 FSM for the turbo models.

At 600 rpm:
Pressure is 14 psi
Flow is 4.9 us qt/min

At 5000 rpm:
Pressure is 43 psi
Flow is 12.42 us GAL/min

Relief valve is set for 85 psi.

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macipusy
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Re: Maciek's 2.36L Turbo Build (Update with pics 3.24.14)

Post by macipusy »

I wonder why my pressure is so much lower. I always remember 72ish psi at 3K RPM or higher on the turbo Legacies. At least it is just over the recommended value of 43 psi. Still makes me a tiny bit nervous, since it's slightly away from the mean values everyone is seeing.
maciek puszynski

01 Impreza | v6 STi RA | 5mt | ej236t
93 Legacy Turbo | TW | 4eat | ej22t
16 WRX | 6mt | fa20
98 Legacy GT | wagon | 5mt | ej25d


2.36L Turbo - RSTi Build
SILINC3R
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Re: Maciek's 2.36L Turbo Build (Update with pics 3.24.14)

Post by SILINC3R »

Just found out about this oil, you may want to try. Rotella T6 Synthetic 5W-40, blue jug 1 gallon. Now, the thing is it is labeled diesel oil. But if you think about it, it makes perfect sense to use. Diesels run higher compresion and run higher temps, than normal pertrol engines. And it's cheap at $22 bucks from walmart. It does have detergents in it so when you do an oil change it will clean it out well.
I used Mobil 1 full synthetic for the past 8 years in all my cars but my buddy that tuned my car told me to give it a try. I'll probably stick with T6, just makes sense.
Tony
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Re: Maciek's 2.36L Turbo Build (Update with pics 3.24.14)

Post by Legacy777 »

Just to note, oils formulated for diesel engines do have different additive packages so I would suggest making sure it at least meets all the same standards as the gasoline formulated oils.

Also, you could try running a different oil and viscosity to see if that brings the pressures back to what is expected. If not, you may want to pull the oil pump and see if something is up.
Josh

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1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

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macipusy
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Re: Maciek's 2.36L Turbo Build (Update with pics 3.24.14)

Post by macipusy »

I might try to switch to 5W30 first...and note that data point with the pressures across RPM ranges and compare to the 15W40 oil.

If no significant difference is observed then....

From there I might take apart the relief valve on the oil pump and see how many shims are present. I've talked with my friend who builds high flow oil pumps for Subaru applications. He recommended running 3 shims on the 10mm pump. He also mentioned it should probably have 1-2 shims present. I'll report back on this once I dig into it this weekend.
maciek puszynski

01 Impreza | v6 STi RA | 5mt | ej236t
93 Legacy Turbo | TW | 4eat | ej22t
16 WRX | 6mt | fa20
98 Legacy GT | wagon | 5mt | ej25d


2.36L Turbo - RSTi Build
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Re: Maciek's 2.36L Turbo Build (Update with pics 3.24.14)

Post by SILINC3R »

Josh, I asked about the same thing. T6 is a dual cert oil. Used mainly for diesel but can be used for petrol motors. If you google it you will see it is used by a lot of Subaru guys and other vehicles. The only issue they bring up is the phosphurus on the cat but that is a whole other issue which is not an issue at all.
Also since we have no O2 sensor after cat it won't/wouldn't effect the ECU.
Tony
90 LS Spec rio red sold
91 SS rio red R.I.P
90 Mazda Miata
2005 GT SWP
92ss satinsvoice wrote:LOL! that block was like F*** THIS! IM OUT!
mike-tracy wrote:Word. I'd love to get my hands on one of those trannies, but I just can't stomach the cost
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Re: Maciek's 2.36L Turbo Build (Update with pics 3.24.14)

Post by dankberries »

I've used rotela 5w40 in other cars for years with out issue.
I haven't tried Shaffer's oil but I hear that's the best on the market.

Maciek, what kind of pressure gauge are using?
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93 legacy ss Tarmac Terminator
89 Nissan 240sx sr20
90 Nissan 240sx 2jz
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Re: Maciek's 2.36L Turbo Build (Update with pics 3.24.14)

Post by macipusy »

I am using the AEM 0-100psi electronic gauge.
maciek puszynski

01 Impreza | v6 STi RA | 5mt | ej236t
93 Legacy Turbo | TW | 4eat | ej22t
16 WRX | 6mt | fa20
98 Legacy GT | wagon | 5mt | ej25d


2.36L Turbo - RSTi Build
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Re: Maciek's 2.36L Turbo Build (Update with pics 3.24.14)

Post by Legacy777 »

I think my pump had 1 shim in it.
Josh

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1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
macipusy
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Re: Maciek's 2.36L Turbo Build (Update with pics 3.24.14)

Post by macipusy »

Took apart the oil pressure relief valve on the RSTi this weekend to try to solve the slightly low oil pressure issue. Had to pull the timing belt, which was rubbing a little on the timing belt guard, just enough to peel up the blue paint off the gates racing belt.

The pump only had one shim. I installed 3 total 1mm thick shims. On start up with cold oil at idle, the pressure was now 80 psi vs the previous 70 psi. At full RPMs after warmed up, I would still only see 50 psi max. Makes me think I will probably need a 11mm pump to see a pressure increase. I would feel more comfortable above 60 psi.

On the TW, I have been paying attention to the hesitation on take off. Seems like I can stall the car on take off when using very slow throttle movement. Makes me think the throttle enrichment might be set too sensitive, and floods out the spark....but that is only a theory at this point. I will keep making progress on this issue, until it it solved.
maciek puszynski

01 Impreza | v6 STi RA | 5mt | ej236t
93 Legacy Turbo | TW | 4eat | ej22t
16 WRX | 6mt | fa20
98 Legacy GT | wagon | 5mt | ej25d


2.36L Turbo - RSTi Build
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Re: Maciek's 2.36L Turbo Build (Update with pics 3.24.14)

Post by Legacy777 »

Do you have anything on that motor that would require added oil pressure above what the stock 10mm pump can easily supply? The 11 mm pump will flow more volume, but doesn't necessary discharge higher pressure, and as is discussed in dankberries build thread higher flow isn't always a good thing.
Josh

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1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
macipusy
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Re: Maciek's 2.36L Turbo Build (Update with pics 3.24.14)

Post by macipusy »

I don't believe so, Josh. I've been thinking about the configuration of the motor and it's just a DOHC ej22t with a 79mm crank and stock bearing configuration. The clearances are close to stock IIRC (need to peek at the build sheet).

What has me concerned, is that it tops out at 50ish psi at 3K and then does not build even 1 psi from there up to 7K. I've been reading that possibly you should see 5-10 psi increase in that RPM zone...but it was on NASIOC, so not sure how much I should consider. Some of the smarter people on there have been saying that the 11mm pump might aerate the oil if you are building too much pressure and constantly blowing it by the relief valve. Same situation mentioned in dankberries build thread about the 12mm pump.

I'm wondering if my 10mm is faulty or the low pressure is a function of the motor design (but can't think of why it would).

Here is my plan of approach.
1. Change the oil to 5W30.
2. Note observations at cold idle pressure and pressures throughout the RPM range, while parked in neutral.
3. Install a mechanical gauge to verify accuracy of AEM oil pressure gauge. Just to eliminate any uncertainty. Not the pressures with same process as step 2.
4. At this point I would proceed to installing a fresh 10mm pump for comparison.
5. Then maybe stepping up to 11mm.

I might have a chat with Greg (Slodrive) this morning and get his thoughts on the situation.

Please comment freely if you guys have any other ideas concerning the oil pressures.
maciek puszynski

01 Impreza | v6 STi RA | 5mt | ej236t
93 Legacy Turbo | TW | 4eat | ej22t
16 WRX | 6mt | fa20
98 Legacy GT | wagon | 5mt | ej25d


2.36L Turbo - RSTi Build
macipusy
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Re: Maciek's 2.36L Turbo Build (Update with pics 3.24.14)

Post by macipusy »

I changed the oil to Valvoline 5W30 conventional.

15W40 Rotella T observations:
Cold idle pressure: 70-75 psi
Warm idle pressure: 14 psi
Warm at 3K pressure: 50 psi
Warm at full RPM (7K): 50 psi

5W30 Valvoline observations:
Cold idle pressure: 85-90 psi
Warm idle pressure: 12 psi
Warm at 3K pressure: 50 psi
Warm at full RPM (7K): 62-72 psi

Looks like good numbers to me.

Good data point to have. I originally thought the Rotella was causing the low pressure, but was second guessing myself that thicker oil should really be higher pressure, like cold oil is.
maciek puszynski

01 Impreza | v6 STi RA | 5mt | ej236t
93 Legacy Turbo | TW | 4eat | ej22t
16 WRX | 6mt | fa20
98 Legacy GT | wagon | 5mt | ej25d


2.36L Turbo - RSTi Build
macipusy
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Re: Maciek's 2.36L Turbo Build (Update with pics 3.24.14)

Post by macipusy »

Argh....more oil pressure issues.

It was in the 70's today and I was able to get the car nice and hot.

I've been noticing my oil pressure at hot idle hanging at 6 psi....and sometimes drop to 0 or 1 psi.
Also, have noticed full RPM pressures are not always the same. I've seen some in the 52ish psi and have seen it get hung up in the 40s. Not sure what to think of it. The pressure also bounces sometime in a steady RPM.

I will install the mechanical gauge for proper AEM gauge operation verification....tomorrow. Then I will drive the car around with the gauge in my windshield wiper for a few days to note the pressures across a wide range of oil temperatures. I will post the observations of this study.

What would a cracked oil pickup cause the pressures to do? I'm a little nervous since I used a higher mileage pan, baffle and pickup...with new orings.
maciek puszynski

01 Impreza | v6 STi RA | 5mt | ej236t
93 Legacy Turbo | TW | 4eat | ej22t
16 WRX | 6mt | fa20
98 Legacy GT | wagon | 5mt | ej25d


2.36L Turbo - RSTi Build
macipusy
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Re: Maciek's 2.36L Turbo Build (Update with pics 3.24.14)

Post by macipusy »

Just after I posted about the oil pressure yesterday, I went out to the car and started it....the oil pressure was over 100 psi (off the gauge). Shut off and restarted....showed 20, jumped to 15, 10 then 0. Shut off and restarted....over 100. Rinse, repeat....65 and steady.

The only things I can think of to check are:

1. Verify the gauge with mechanical unit. (hopefully the cause of the issue)
2. Something might be stuck in the oil pressure galley. (I will inspect when installing the mechanical gauge)
3. Cracked oil pick up.
maciek puszynski

01 Impreza | v6 STi RA | 5mt | ej236t
93 Legacy Turbo | TW | 4eat | ej22t
16 WRX | 6mt | fa20
98 Legacy GT | wagon | 5mt | ej25d


2.36L Turbo - RSTi Build
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Re: Maciek's 2.36L Turbo Build (Update with pics 3.24.14)

Post by PhyrraM »

I also suspect the gauge.

Second would be the relief valve in the oil pump.
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macipusy
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Re: Maciek's 2.36L Turbo Build (Update with pics 3.24.14)

Post by macipusy »

There is definitely something up with the actual gauge.

I went out over lunch and at 3K RPMs it was reading 40ish psi....I smacked the gauge pod with my hand and the pressure dropped to 5 psi.

I swapped the fuel pressure gauge with the oil pressure gauge....it is the same 0-100psi gauge with a different face plate.
Started the car and smacked the gauge pod....the fuel pressure now displayed on the oil pressure gauge dropped from 45 to 40 psi with the smack. The oil pressure was 10 psi at hot idle displayed on the fuel press gauge...did not budge with the smack. Oil pressure climbed to 60 psi with RPMs to redline. I'm going to leave the gauges swapped so I can collect some more data.

I will still install the mechanical gauge unit to verify accuracy of the oil pressure transducer.

I'm starting not to believe the 0 psi readings I was experiencing previously at idle.
maciek puszynski

01 Impreza | v6 STi RA | 5mt | ej236t
93 Legacy Turbo | TW | 4eat | ej22t
16 WRX | 6mt | fa20
98 Legacy GT | wagon | 5mt | ej25d


2.36L Turbo - RSTi Build
macipusy
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Re: Maciek's 2.36L Turbo Build (Update with pics 3.24.14)

Post by macipusy »

Yey....finally a good data point to report.

I installed a Matco Tools mechanical gauge in the stock oil pressure sender location. I let the liquid teflon set up overnight.

Today I drove the piss out of the car to get temps up and up.

Cold idle on startup: 85 psi
Hot idle: 15 psi
Hot max RPM: 55 psi

I have not seen the pressure below 15 psi....at all. This makes me happy.

I think I can live with 55 psi up at top RPMs....starts at 50 around 3K and maxes out at 55. Very consistent readings all day.
maciek puszynski

01 Impreza | v6 STi RA | 5mt | ej236t
93 Legacy Turbo | TW | 4eat | ej22t
16 WRX | 6mt | fa20
98 Legacy GT | wagon | 5mt | ej25d


2.36L Turbo - RSTi Build
Legacy777
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Re: Maciek's 2.36L Turbo Build (Update with pics 3.24.14)

Post by Legacy777 »

That's good to hear!

I wonder if the issue is with the gauge or pressure sender? I am using the AEM pressure sensor and it's been working fine.

http://main.experiencetherave.com/subar ... G_4846.JPG
Josh

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1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
macipusy
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Re: Maciek's 2.36L Turbo Build (Update with pics 3.24.14)

Post by macipusy »

Finally got a few pictures of the RSTi worth posting. Enjoy!

Image


Image


Image


Image
maciek puszynski

01 Impreza | v6 STi RA | 5mt | ej236t
93 Legacy Turbo | TW | 4eat | ej22t
16 WRX | 6mt | fa20
98 Legacy GT | wagon | 5mt | ej25d


2.36L Turbo - RSTi Build
macipusy
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Re: Maciek's 2.36L Turbo Build (Actual car pics 4.23.14)

Post by macipusy »

More!


Image

Image

And a full shot of the Turbo Wagon!

Image
maciek puszynski

01 Impreza | v6 STi RA | 5mt | ej236t
93 Legacy Turbo | TW | 4eat | ej22t
16 WRX | 6mt | fa20
98 Legacy GT | wagon | 5mt | ej25d


2.36L Turbo - RSTi Build
CAV3MAN227
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Re: Maciek's 2.36L Turbo Build (Actual car pics 4.23.14)

Post by CAV3MAN227 »

-Awesomeness!

-Joe
-I'd rather loose by a mile because I built my own car, than win by an inch cause someone else built it for me. Your car, is your story, so don't let someone else write the book. ~Moog
Legacy777
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Re: Maciek's 2.36L Turbo Build (Actual car pics 4.23.14)

Post by Legacy777 »

Looking good!

I like the Homer shot :)

Image
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
macipusy
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Re: Maciek's 2.36L Turbo Build (Actual car pics 4.23.14)

Post by macipusy »

I know Josh....one of my best friends is a Simpson nut....so that was for him. He's kind of a Homer...haha
maciek puszynski

01 Impreza | v6 STi RA | 5mt | ej236t
93 Legacy Turbo | TW | 4eat | ej22t
16 WRX | 6mt | fa20
98 Legacy GT | wagon | 5mt | ej25d


2.36L Turbo - RSTi Build
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