Legacy777's 1990 Legacy Turbo

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Legacy777
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Re: Legacy777's 1990 Legacy Turbo

Post by Legacy777 »

Here are pictures of everything complete. I've still got to make a permenant home for the AFR display, but will wait on that. Interestingly, the 6spd shifter is only a little more than 1/2" taller than the 5spd shifter.

I also repainted the turbo heat shield and coated it with clear.

Here are the pics:

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... spdswap/38

Image
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

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Re: Legacy777's 1990 Legacy Turbo

Post by DerFahrer »

It blows my mind to think about when this car was still N/A, 4EAT, and FWD and to see what it's become.

Superb work, Josh.


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2000 Subaru Legacy B4 RSK

"Der Wahnsinn ist nur eine schmale Brücke/die Ufer sind Vernunft und Trieb"

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Re: Legacy777's 1990 Legacy Turbo

Post by Legacy777 »

Thanks Michael!

Yeah it's come a LONG ways from where it started. I really would have never guessed it would come this far, but it has and I still enjoy working on it and driving it, so that's all that matters.
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

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Re: Legacy777's 1990 Legacy Turbo

Post by Legacy777 »

I installed the painted stock turbo heat shield today with the DEI radiant heat barrier. After a little bit of a drive around Houston I checked the temp with my IR temperature gun and the skin temp of the heat shield was about 275 deg F, while the turbo's turbine section was around 500 deg F. That's a pretty decent difference in temp. So turbo blankets or good thermal barriers do work.

Here are the pics

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... spdswap/39
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

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Re: Legacy777's 1990 Legacy Turbo

Post by DerFahrer »

Driving impressions?
2000 Subaru Legacy B4 RSK

"Der Wahnsinn ist nur eine schmale Brücke/die Ufer sind Vernunft und Trieb"

*Formerly subyluvr2212*

Please email me at fahrer4184@gmail.com if you want to contact me.
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Re: Legacy777's 1990 Legacy Turbo

Post by Legacy777 »

It's similar to before.....the stock flywheel weight does help it to be more driveable. The 6spd shifter is still notchy....I'm not sure if it's due to the bushing setup I have or if that's just normal for the 6spd. I really haven't pushed it to see if I can tell any difference. The motor still needs to be tuned. It goes lean upon initial take off so there's a little bit of jerkiness. The 6spd is definitely a little noisier than the 5spd.

I'll have to reserve final comments until the motor is tuned, which won't probably be until the fall.
Josh

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1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

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Re: Legacy777's 1990 Legacy Turbo

Post by Legacy777 »

I've driven the car a little bit more and I wish the 6spd had a taller 6th gear, but it doesn't. I really do think the first gen turbo Legacy had the tallest final drive & 5spd gear combination of any of the MT AWD subarus.

I got an alignment Friday as well and there was a bit of pull to the right. The alignment shop said that the tires were the cause. So I tried swapping front to rear and it went away....so it looks like it's the tires and I'll just have to live with it.

Lastly....both of my alarm remotes appear to have gone dead. It's very bizarre! I'm not sure if they lost their programming and are not lighting up or if the battery it toast. I went to use it yesterday and nothing. So I grabbed the other remote and same thing.
Josh

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1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

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Re: Legacy777's 1990 Legacy Turbo

Post by mike-tracy »

Josh, from the Rallispec tranny chart, looks like the only USDM 6mt's with a taller gear than yours is the Legacy Spec-B with a .707 vs your .754 6th gear. So if you had to take out your tranny for any reason, a US solution exists :)

Wierd on the alarm remotes - I swapped engines in a 98 forester recently, and the factory remotes worked right away, despite the car being dead for a year.
1992 Legacy SS 5mt, build in progress
Josh Colombo wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2002 10:23 am Wait....I'm confused now.
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Re: Legacy777's 1990 Legacy Turbo

Post by Legacy777 »

The issue with the spec-b 6psds is that they are not truly 6spds, they are typical 5spds with an extra gear in them. They do not have the dccd.

In order to fit the taller 6th gear into the transmission there is supposedly some machining that needs to be done. Andrewtech quoted me roughly $3,000 for the parts & labor necessary to swap the taller 6th gear in. Since that was about as much as I paid for the transmission I opted to pass for the time being :)

If I'm really serious about it I'll have to investigate it a little more and see if the cost is in the parts or labor.....or both.
Josh

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1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

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Legacy777
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Re: Legacy777's 1990 Legacy Turbo

Post by Legacy777 »

Well, turns out the alarm remote issue was just the batteries. They're small 12v batteries. One was around 9.4 volts and one was around 2 volts. I put some different batteries in and all is good. I probably should buy some "fresh" batteries since the ones I put in have been sitting for a little while.
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

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Re: Legacy777's 1990 Legacy Turbo

Post by mike-tracy »

Sounds like an update is in order?
1992 Legacy SS 5mt, build in progress
Josh Colombo wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2002 10:23 am Wait....I'm confused now.
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Re: Legacy777's 1990 Legacy Turbo

Post by NICO »

i want your interior so bad josh !! that peanut butter colour is so hard to find for me,.. i was so close to getting a 91 fwd with that colour. i would add real sparco seats the crazy ones + a v9 jdm motor and daily it like it was race car.


lol i like how you set the dccd button push button then flush, very nice !


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1993 Subaru Legacy 44B STi 4Cam 16Valve Turbo Intercooled AWD
EJ22T, STi EJ207 DOHC, Vi-PEC (Spare Autronic) @ 426.20HP / 394.94ft lb @ 00psi
Tuned By: Franz Diebold ( DIEBOLD AUTOSPORT ) @ NVauto
Legacy777
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Re: Legacy777's 1990 Legacy Turbo

Post by Legacy777 »

Mike,

I haven't really done much with the car since getting the 6spd in. I talked with the tuner a few weeks ago and am still planning to fly him out in spring to tune the car. I still need to spend some time going over the new firmware for the Link and make sure everything works properly. I haven't had much time and motivation lately to do much with it. I have new triangle pieces for the door that I need to install. Hopefully that will help reduce the wind noise.

Nico,

Yeah I know...the tan interior is so hard to find. I really want a MT shifter surround but I can find any that are in decent shape and still have the plastic tabs on them.

The push button DCCD knob was something I had in my mind ever since I started thinking about the swap. I haven't seen anyone else use something like that before. I really like how it turned out :)
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

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Re: Legacy777's 1990 Legacy Turbo

Post by macipusy »

Great build thread Josh. It took me a long time to get through it....I would get lost for hours in your pic links...and sometimes my brain hurt from information overload (exactly how it should be in a good build thread). Very good job of keeping record of your build, in content and pictures.

Your attention to detail is amazing, and you are a very patient man.

From the exterior the car looks so clean and close to a stock 91SS (minus the wheels and bumper), even though it's probably one of the most modified Legacies on legacy central.

I think the OEM side skirts and sedan rear lip could complement the wheels and give a more aggressive and lowered look to the car. I am very biased toward the OEM 'ground effects'. I've always liked the Australian Liberty RS and the JDM model trims.
maciek puszynski

01 Impreza | v6 STi RA | 5mt | ej236t
93 Legacy Turbo | TW | 4eat | ej22t
16 WRX | 6mt | fa20
98 Legacy GT | wagon | 5mt | ej25d


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Re: Legacy777's 1990 Legacy Turbo

Post by macipusy »

How is the notchy feeling in the shifting? Smoothing out a little. I know when I installed the LGT transmission in the RSTi with all new shifter bushings, it was so notchy that I thought the angle of the shifter assembly was off with the SS shifter. It has since smoothed out quite a bit.

Question about your lean condition on take off...is it around 1 second or less in duration, like a stumble as soon as you give it gas and then starts to level off to the correct AFR? Does any movement starting from 0% throttle cause a small stumble/hesitation?
maciek puszynski

01 Impreza | v6 STi RA | 5mt | ej236t
93 Legacy Turbo | TW | 4eat | ej22t
16 WRX | 6mt | fa20
98 Legacy GT | wagon | 5mt | ej25d


2.36L Turbo - RSTi Build
Legacy777
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Re: Legacy777's 1990 Legacy Turbo

Post by Legacy777 »

macipusy wrote:Great build thread Josh. It took me a long time to get through it....I would get lost for hours in your pic links...and sometimes my brain hurt from information overload (exactly how it should be in a good build thread). Very good job of keeping record of your build, in content and pictures.

Your attention to detail is amazing, and you are a very patient man.

From the exterior the car looks so clean and close to a stock 91SS (minus the wheels and bumper), even though it's probably one of the most modified Legacies on legacy central.

I think the OEM side skirts and sedan rear lip could complement the wheels and give a more aggressive and lowered look to the car. I am very biased toward the OEM 'ground effects'. I've always liked the Australian Liberty RS and the JDM model trims.

Thanks Maciek! I appreciate the feedback and comments! It's been a long journey to get the car where it is today, and I enjoyed getting into the details and figuring out some of the stuff I've done.

I agree I think the OEM side skirts and sedan rear lip would look good on the car. I wouldn't mind getting a set if I knew they were in very good condition. If you have any leads on either of those, let me know. Then I'd have to think about the front bumper/lip as well.

Thanks!
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
Legacy777
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Re: Legacy777's 1990 Legacy Turbo

Post by Legacy777 »

macipusy wrote:How is the notchy feeling in the shifting? Smoothing out a little. I know when I installed the LGT transmission in the RSTi with all new shifter bushings, it was so notchy that I thought the angle of the shifter assembly was off with the SS shifter. It has since smoothed out quite a bit.

Question about your lean condition on take off...is it around 1 second or less in duration, like a stumble as soon as you give it gas and then starts to level off to the correct AFR? Does any movement starting from 0% throttle cause a small stumble/hesitation?
The shifting is still a bit notchy feeling. I wish it was a little smoother, and it may smooth out over some more time. I'd prefer it to be a little smoother.


Yes from my previous motor when the tune was correct the momentary lean condition was less than 1 second in duration. The AFR's leveled off to the correct AFR. There wasn't even a stumble, it was just a very breif momentary lean condition. I talked with the tuner about it and he said that it's somewhat normal and I more think it's how you setup the tune. I think he kept the initial throttle tip in enrichment down a little bit to improve drivability and fuel economy.

With the tune where it's at now and not properly tuned I can get a little bit of stumbling during initial startup where the motor is requiring more fuel. The lean condition currently lasts a little more than a second depending on the engine temp. I'm hoping to fly the tuner out in the next 2 months (hopefully!) so the engine will run properly and I can get more POWER :)
Josh

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1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

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Re: Legacy777's 1990 Legacy Turbo

Post by macipusy »

I'm having a bit of stumbling on throttle tip in as well. I've been adjusting the transient throttle enrichment tables in the Haltech software. I've been able to reduce the effect, but not eliminate it completely, yet. I have noticed that it is much more pronounced on a 4EAT setup than the manual gearbox. With the 4EAT I have experienced a lot of stalling of the motor during this lean condition upon taking off from a stop.

Is your tuner going to street tune, or are you guys going to rent dyno time? I'm surprised you are not tuning it yourself. If I remember correctly, you have done some tuning before.
maciek puszynski

01 Impreza | v6 STi RA | 5mt | ej236t
93 Legacy Turbo | TW | 4eat | ej22t
16 WRX | 6mt | fa20
98 Legacy GT | wagon | 5mt | ej25d


2.36L Turbo - RSTi Build
Legacy777
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Re: Legacy777's 1990 Legacy Turbo

Post by Legacy777 »

Have you tried erroring on the excessive side of transient throttle enrichment tables to see if that changes anything? I had an issue just after getting tuned the first time where there was a bucking or stumbling on initial throttle tip in. If I feathered the throttle it was ok, however if I dumped it, I had issues. After a bit of homework and comparing MAP's I realized the tuner had the enrichment table values reversed. So the ECU was giving A LOT of fuel when it should have only been giving a little. I'd have to go dig through my emails to find the specifics if you'd like.

We had talked about doing both, street first and then get dyno time to fine tune the timing. I need to find a shop that will let outside tuners use their dyno. I'm not opposed to just doing it on the dyno, but don't know what his preference is.

I understand the theory behind the tuning and what needs to be done, but the application of it eludes me. Honestly, I just don't have the time to mess with it. If I had more time to tune and adjust and tune and adjust...and repeat I could probably get things closer, but I just don't have the time...or really the patience right now.

I need to get the dyno figured out and need to nail down a time to fly him in. I'm tired of the car just being ok....and not running up to its potential.

Let me know if you want me to dig through my emails and I'll see if I can find the specifics around that enrichment table being reversed.
Josh

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1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

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Re: Legacy777's 1990 Legacy Turbo

Post by macipusy »

So far, I have only set all throttle enrichments to 100%, regardless of tip in rate and angle. This helped a lot, but still stumbles from 0% on slow tip in rates. There is a few more tables I have not messed with yet. I've been trying to only alter one table at a time, then collect data on changes observed.

I'm with you on the busy life front....grad school, work, family stuff, 3 year old daughter and 2 car projects. I've been in the garage during the night time mostly when not doing homework and I'm determined to solve these issues, sooner or later.

My next move with this issue is for sure to go rich heavy on the settings. There is also the injector firing angle which could be a hidden culprit causing this effect, but not directly related to the throttle tip in.
maciek puszynski

01 Impreza | v6 STi RA | 5mt | ej236t
93 Legacy Turbo | TW | 4eat | ej22t
16 WRX | 6mt | fa20
98 Legacy GT | wagon | 5mt | ej25d


2.36L Turbo - RSTi Build
Legacy777
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Re: Legacy777's 1990 Legacy Turbo

Post by Legacy777 »

Is the haltech software downloadable by anyone? If it is, I can d/l it and if you want to send me your MAP I can take a look at it. I'm pretty familiar with the settings and how they "should" be configured, and can let you know if I see anything that looks a miss from how my setup is configured.
Josh

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1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

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Re: Legacy777's 1990 Legacy Turbo

Post by macipusy »

That sounds great Josh, I appreciate the help! I can email you my latest map. You can PM me your email address. The Haltech sofware is available from their website for free. I can also include it in the email.

I'd like to hear what you think of the Haltech interface design.
maciek puszynski

01 Impreza | v6 STi RA | 5mt | ej236t
93 Legacy Turbo | TW | 4eat | ej22t
16 WRX | 6mt | fa20
98 Legacy GT | wagon | 5mt | ej25d


2.36L Turbo - RSTi Build
Legacy777
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Re: Legacy777's 1990 Legacy Turbo

Post by Legacy777 »

Cool. I just sent you a PM.
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
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Re: Legacy777's 1990 Legacy Turbo

Post by Legacy777 »

Well I finally upgraded to the latest firmware on the Link. I had been putting this off due to a couple reasons....no good laptop and bad experience with previous upgrades. However, I was very pleasently surprised that all the previous issues appear to be fixed! No more resetting of the knock system when the firmware or MAP's are upgraded, the wide band closed loop control works, and most importantly the closed loop knock control is working properly again!

I took it for a drive last night and the ECU pulled timing at a section of the MAP since I have the gains artificially inflated and knock threshold lowered. So now I need to start tweaking a few things for gear dependent boost settings, and enable the boost control system to play in the boost a little bit more.
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
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Re: Legacy777's 1990 Legacy Turbo

Post by mike-tracy »

That is fantastic! So does this mean you don't need a tuner to come down?
1992 Legacy SS 5mt, build in progress
Josh Colombo wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2002 10:23 am Wait....I'm confused now.
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