Dankberries 1993 Impreza ej23t/25d build

Information about specific car builds.

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alexandermf
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Re: Dankberries 1993 Impreza ej23t/25d build

Post by alexandermf »

Sorry to hear man, chris's did two nights ago as well, may have blew out his bottom end
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Re: Dankberries 1993 Impreza ej23t/25d build

Post by dankberries »

Some thoughts I would like to share,
I used ARP case bolts. They tighten the halves together like ALOT, to the point of almost breaking shit. Cause for possible bearing failure?
Also when putting the halves together , you use a sealant, well when the machinist was checking clearances, with the halves together, how do account for changes in clearances because of the sealant? The sealant In my opinion could change the clearances possibly by .001.
Thoughts?
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Re: Dankberries 1993 Impreza ej23t/25d build

Post by swerveburd »

Sorry to hear about your Impreza mon. Maybe we can enjoy some dank berries in the dirt roads of Colorado in the future. There's some fine roads around Gold Hill and Ward. Best of luck on whatever your next step may be
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Re: Dankberries 1993 Impreza ej23t/25d build

Post by Legacy777 »

What did you torque the ARP case bolts to in comparison to what the stock bolts are supposed to be torqued to?

I suppose the sealant might cause a little extra clearance, but in my opinion it should be within the tolerance range, unless you were towards the far side of the clearance tolerances.
Josh

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Re: Dankberries 1993 Impreza ej23t/25d build

Post by dankberries »

I torqued them to the ARP specs. I don't remember off the top of my head and I'm at work so I don't have the specs in front of me, but I think I remember 70lbs maybe?
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Re: Dankberries 1993 Impreza ej23t/25d build

Post by dankberries »

93 impreza rally muffin
93 legacy ss Tarmac Terminator
89 Nissan 240sx sr20
90 Nissan 240sx 2jz
killajamal wrote:Dank is actually German for "silly term which the kids have come up with to describe exceptionally choice marijuana.''
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Re: Dankberries 1993 Impreza ej23t/25d build

Post by dankberries »

93 impreza rally muffin
93 legacy ss Tarmac Terminator
89 Nissan 240sx sr20
90 Nissan 240sx 2jz
killajamal wrote:Dank is actually German for "silly term which the kids have come up with to describe exceptionally choice marijuana.''
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Re: Dankberries 1993 Impreza ej23t/25d build

Post by dankberries »

Stock case bolt spec is 35lbs? So from 35 to 70 , @Josh I believe a 35lbs difference.
93 impreza rally muffin
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killajamal wrote:Dank is actually German for "silly term which the kids have come up with to describe exceptionally choice marijuana.''
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Re: Dankberries 1993 Impreza ej23t/25d build

Post by dankberries »

Well what a day. Mayed it to work an hour late, still worked an 8hr day, and made it home to completely remove and disable an engine in 6hrs.
Good news, my heads look good.
Bad news, spun some crank bearings and a rod bearing

Image
93 impreza rally muffin
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Re: Dankberries 1993 Impreza ej23t/25d build

Post by dankberries »

Blue Oval machine shop in Denver, Co did the crank and rod bearing clearances .
Not sure if this is a result of poor work on the machinists behalf or if this was caused by something else.

Originally when trying to use clevite bearings, the machinist told me crank #1 & #5 where comming out too tight. One of his thoughts was the ARP bolts making to much clamping force at the end of the halves.
Later after ordering ACL bearings (all sets over,under,standard) the machinist was able to achieve better clearances.

The machinist claimed he had no problems with the rod clearances and that all four came out exact.

Later today when I get off work I will post the claimed clearances.
Last edited by dankberries on Mon May 06, 2013 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
93 impreza rally muffin
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killajamal wrote:Dank is actually German for "silly term which the kids have come up with to describe exceptionally choice marijuana.''
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Re: Dankberries 1993 Impreza ej23t/25d build

Post by CFK »

I am Very sorry to hear this :!: That is brutal, how many Miles do you think you got out of that Engine :?:

I just spent almost three years, finally got mine on the road. Failed emissions, was aloud 3 months insurance.
Engine blew 4 days later. Not even 500 Kms :smt013 ........................ :smt010

Granted it was the original motor with 159K Miles on it, still :!: Only had a TD04 on it running at 9 PSI.
Not a fully built motor meant to handle all this :!:

Good luck and am very curious to hear what the exact cause was.
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Re: Dankberries 1993 Impreza ej23t/25d build

Post by dankberries »

4000 miles :(
93 impreza rally muffin
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killajamal wrote:Dank is actually German for "silly term which the kids have come up with to describe exceptionally choice marijuana.''
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Re: Dankberries 1993 Impreza ej23t/25d build

Post by Legacy777 »

Yeah....that's double the torque of stock....but maybe it's ok....I don't know.
Josh

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Re: Dankberries 1993 Impreza ej23t/25d build

Post by dankberries »

Darnit Josh your sapose to know everything! J/k lol

Hmm I haven't found my clearance that I wrote down but I will call the machine shop when their open tomorrow and ask.

Perhaps some other members who have built engines could share their crank and rod bearing clearances for reference.

Other possibilities of failure, oil starvation? Maybe the 12mm oil pump is too much, although this is purpace built to be raced. Just trying rule out the possibilities for failure.

Engines was broken-in using rotella 15-40 with Lucas break-in additive.
After break-in I switched to 5-40 .
Last edited by dankberries on Mon May 06, 2013 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
93 impreza rally muffin
93 legacy ss Tarmac Terminator
89 Nissan 240sx sr20
90 Nissan 240sx 2jz
killajamal wrote:Dank is actually German for "silly term which the kids have come up with to describe exceptionally choice marijuana.''
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Re: Dankberries 1993 Impreza ej23t/25d build

Post by dankberries »

Yikes! Look like the burning hole in my pocket just got deeper :-(

Why I had one rod bearing fail is a big ? In my mind. This seems like something that is at the fault of the machine shop.
This evening I was doing some more examining of the damages and was noticing some not so good things on my one failed rod.
Some serious heat scoring on the inside of the rod where the bearing sits and also extruding to outside of the bearing area on the rod.
Image
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Image
Image
Last edited by dankberries on Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
93 impreza rally muffin
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killajamal wrote:Dank is actually German for "silly term which the kids have come up with to describe exceptionally choice marijuana.''
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Re: Dankberries 1993 Impreza ej23t/25d build

Post by Legacy777 »

Yeah, it does look like that rod got pretty hot.

What clearances did you run? When I put my motor together I just used the std subaru clearances listed in the FSM.
Josh

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Re: Dankberries 1993 Impreza ej23t/25d build

Post by dankberries »

Bearing clearances:
Rods - .0018

Crank - .0020-.0023
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Re: Dankberries 1993 Impreza ej23t/25d build

Post by dankberries »

The machinist had some thoughts on the issue, he thinks oil starvation could be a cause. He thinks possibly when reaching such high RPM(8000) that I'm not sustaining good pressure/volume.
Another one of his thoughts was maybe I need a bigger oil pan and/or a better pick-up tube. OR that maybe I should use an oil sump system.
93 impreza rally muffin
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89 Nissan 240sx sr20
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killajamal wrote:Dank is actually German for "silly term which the kids have come up with to describe exceptionally choice marijuana.''
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Re: Dankberries 1993 Impreza ej23t/25d build

Post by 91legacyawdturbo »

Just a thought the ej20g cd block has a rev limit of 7200, with oil squirters, the ej207 v7 has a rev limit of 8250 no oil squirters but avcs, might be a thing of the ej22t loosing oil pressure at high rpms due to the oil squirters?
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Re: Dankberries 1993 Impreza ej23t/25d build

Post by PhyrraM »

Properly functioning oil squirters shut off at low oil pressure.

Using a 12mm pump on an engine without AVCS must be done with caution. If too much oil is recycled by the bypass the opportunity is there to over aerate the oil.

The 12mm pump only came on motors with AVCS or dual AVCS. If you use it on a motor with less demand for oil, then the bypass will stay open for a greater percentage of time. This can lead to excessive re-circulation of the oil and the possible introduction of more air than the system can "float" out.

If the motor was built with much larger bearing clearances than stock, then there might be a need significantly bump oil supply with the 12mm pump.

I'm not saying anything is right or wrong with your particular build, I'm just throwing out some theorycraft to help with your eventual diagnosis.
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Re: Dankberries 1993 Impreza ej23t/25d build

Post by dankberries »

Hmmm....

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=2208665

Removing and pluging the squirter holes? OK for forged pistons? Could that help out?
Last edited by dankberries on Thu Apr 24, 2014 1:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
93 impreza rally muffin
93 legacy ss Tarmac Terminator
89 Nissan 240sx sr20
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killajamal wrote:Dank is actually German for "silly term which the kids have come up with to describe exceptionally choice marijuana.''
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Re: Dankberries 1993 Impreza ej23t/25d build

Post by Legacy777 »

Your crank bearing oil clearances are a little high. the stock clearances show to be .0004 - .0012 in.

I would tend to agree with PhyrraM. I know people think "upgrading" to the 12mm pump is better, but unless you have additional oil demand, there's absolutely no reason to do it.
Josh

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Re: Dankberries 1993 Impreza ej23t/25d build

Post by dankberries »

I didn't fully understand how AVCS works, I came across this http://drive2.subaru.com/Win05_WhatsInside.htm
Very informative
93 impreza rally muffin
93 legacy ss Tarmac Terminator
89 Nissan 240sx sr20
90 Nissan 240sx 2jz
killajamal wrote:Dank is actually German for "silly term which the kids have come up with to describe exceptionally choice marijuana.''
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Re: Dankberries 1993 Impreza ej23t/25d build

Post by dankberries »

OK . I did more research today, sounds like I should stick with a ej22t 10mm.
If their is a demand for more pressure I could add an extra shim to the pump.
Is it true the 22t pump already has two shims ?
Sti 10mm pump has one shim?


@Josh, on my main clearances, that does seem pretty loose, I don't think the machinist remembered those #'s correctly , i wish I could find the #'s I wrote down. I kinda remember my rods all being .0015, and my mains were between .0012 - .0018
93 impreza rally muffin
93 legacy ss Tarmac Terminator
89 Nissan 240sx sr20
90 Nissan 240sx 2jz
killajamal wrote:Dank is actually German for "silly term which the kids have come up with to describe exceptionally choice marijuana.''
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Re: Dankberries 1993 Impreza ej23t/25d build

Post by dankberries »

This next go around , I still want to be a little loose, but also be able to find a balance between the oil pump and bearings.
I guess a good question would be, how much can STD size bearings handle before theirs a need to go looser?

I'm scared of oil starvation! Its seems like a lot of people have this problem.

Subaru has they tightest clearances. Gives me a wedgy just thinkin bout it.
93 impreza rally muffin
93 legacy ss Tarmac Terminator
89 Nissan 240sx sr20
90 Nissan 240sx 2jz
killajamal wrote:Dank is actually German for "silly term which the kids have come up with to describe exceptionally choice marijuana.''
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