TurnNBurn's 1990 Subaru Legacy L 2.2 open light rally car

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TurnNburn
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Re: TurnNBurn's 1990 Subaru Legacy L 2.2 open light rally ca

Post by TurnNburn »

hahaha, never would have thought of that! Thanks for the heads up once again. Going to be a good excuse to light up the night.
1990 NA 2.2 Open Light rally car
TurnNburn
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Re: TurnNBurn's 1990 Subaru Legacy L 2.2 open light rally ca

Post by TurnNburn »

So i found out why my car is running so rich today... injector #4 ohm'ed out at 56! crap. I had changed maf, air filter, fuel filter, spark plugs and 02 sensor and it didnt change anything. did my ohm test and found the first three between 12.4 and 13.1 then number four showed up.

I was registered to do my first rally cross this weekend, doesnt look like im going to make it. At least you dont have to pay until you show up so im not out any money.

Just my luck, another 90-91 5 speed specific part...

Does anyone have any of these laying around?

I have some red injectors from a donor motor, but these wont work without the ECU right? which would mean i would have to get the MAF as well? Not worth my time unless i cant find the right injectors. My local junkyard doesnt have any in that vintage.
1990 NA 2.2 Open Light rally car
Legacy777
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Re: TurnNBurn's 1990 Subaru Legacy L 2.2 open light rally ca

Post by Legacy777 »

That's nice they included the spacers for the lifters.

The 92 injectors need different rails and will run with the 90-91 ECU, but won't be optimal. If you can find a 90-91 MT injector, I'd go that route.
Josh

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1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
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TurnNburn
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Re: TurnNBurn's 1990 Subaru Legacy L 2.2 open light rally ca

Post by TurnNburn »

yeah, the guy straight up told me they are industrial washers that they get from Fastenal (measured for consistency). made me laugh.

I don't think I am going to bother using the wrong injectors. I would rather let the car sit and not run at all then intentionally make it run like crap. Or fall down another rabbit hole of swapping things that don't belong and trying to make them work anyways. I just wish it wasn't such a specific year range. I have an ad up in the parts shed, maybe someone will save the day soon.

At least I found the route of the problem and can fix it, and along the way I replaced a lot of stuff that probably needed to be changed anyway.
1990 NA 2.2 Open Light rally car
TurnNburn
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Re: TurnNBurn's 1990 Subaru Legacy L 2.2 open light rally ca

Post by TurnNburn »

I gave up waiting to find a used set of injectors. Im to impatient for my own good with this car... While doing some searching i stumbled across a set of 4 on Rockauto.com for 109 bucks shipped. Remanned, but warrantied and flow tested for accuracy, so i decided to pull the trigger and try them out. Will post up my results when they show up and see how the car runs.
1990 NA 2.2 Open Light rally car
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Re: TurnNBurn's 1990 Subaru Legacy L 2.2 open light rally ca

Post by Legacy777 »

Sounds good. Let us know how they work out.
Josh

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TurnNburn
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Re: TurnNBurn's 1990 Subaru Legacy L 2.2 open light rally ca

Post by TurnNburn »

Had a few minutes to spare today and install my new injectors. Side by side comparrison makes them look identical, minus my very dirty OE injectors. They ohm tested exactly the same as OE and went in without any hitches. They even came with both o-rings for each injector, which i was not expecting. Overall pretty happy with my find and would recommend anyone looking for a set to try these out.

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The car runs so much better now and seemed to cure a lot of the random misses at idle. That being said, i am still running crazy rich pretty much everywhere but idle. and i have no idea why.

Going to try changing the engine coolant temp sensor as a last resort as i have literally changed everything involve with the combustion process, which has made the car run better, has not cured the rich problem. The only thing that noticably changed it was unplugging the o2 sensor. so the computer is making it run like this and i dont know why, maybe if i swap over to the jecs maf and try and lean my car out it will balance out, but then im just masking the problem and not really fixing anything... idk... grasping at straws
1990 NA 2.2 Open Light rally car
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Re: TurnNBurn's 1990 Subaru Legacy L 2.2 open light rally ca

Post by Legacy777 »

Glad the new injector worked out. I would definitely try a new CTS and go from there.
Josh

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TurnNburn
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Re: TurnNBurn's 1990 Subaru Legacy L 2.2 open light rally ca

Post by TurnNburn »

swapped out my ECTS earlier today. And to my surprise, i found this.
i probably smashed it in there when i was reassembling the engine

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So, great! i found the problem... or did i. I put the new one in anyways and just for fun i tried driving it without resetting the ECU and right away nothing has changed. No surprise there. I pulled codes before the reset and found 13, 24, and 49. CEL was off, so not active. Im assuming the code 24 is because i messed with my throttle screw, but the other 2 i have never seen before, and i check for codes often. Could the cam sensor (code 13) be throwing me into poop loop? and it has the stock metal MAF (hitachi?)that is supposed to be on here so i have no idea why it would be throwing code 49.

So i connected the green and black connectors and while driving the car it runs totally different. It actually leans out past 18 at WOT which i have never seen before since adding the gauge. It eventually starts to catch it self and its running between 13-15:1 during various driving situations which i expected to see and it drives great and pulls hard again. woo hoo.

But after 25 miles of rallying the car trying to get the computer to learn all of my mods and aquire a good fuel trim i notice a definite change in the AFR's. WOT everything seems normalish at 14:1 but when im cruising at say, 15% throttle, im still running at 10-11:1...

I know its suggested to drive the car at least 100 miles or so before fuel trims are corrected so the flogging will continue. I hope things work themselve out.
1990 NA 2.2 Open Light rally car
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Re: TurnNBurn's 1990 Subaru Legacy L 2.2 open light rally ca

Post by rallyak »

Let us know, mines been running rich also same year and changed almost everything O2,coolant sensor, injectors, a known good TB with factory set sensor and still at cruising 13.0 reading from the wide band gauge. WOT it drops to 10.0, it would go lower if the gauge went lower.
Charles

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TurnNburn
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Re: TurnNBurn's 1990 Subaru Legacy L 2.2 open light rally ca

Post by TurnNburn »

Yeah will do, so far i have read many posts that describe this problem who have also swapped/replaced a ton of parts to no avail. But im not giving up.

Just put a fuel gauge on my car and its reads 32 psi at idle weather or not the AFR's are rich. And when i pull the pressure regulator vacuum line PSI only went up 5, and it seems most people are reporting pulling the line should show an increase of 10PSI.

Mitchell on Demand says fuel pump pressure spec should be 36 PSI (does not specify at idle). But it also has a second spec for regulated fuel pressure of 26-30 PSI. Im assuming that is what the pressure would be right after the pressure regulator and before the injectors, which i do not have a way of testing.

Based off these readings i dont think that is my problem either. Although i do have a spare regulator from old manifold i have laying around i could try if someone says its worth trying.
1990 NA 2.2 Open Light rally car
TurnNburn
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Re: TurnNBurn's 1990 Subaru Legacy L 2.2 open light rally ca

Post by TurnNburn »

so today I passed the 100 mile mark after clearing the codes in the car. On a cold start I started the car and initially got in to drive off, but someone in the parking lot stopped me and we chatted for 10 minutes or so while the car idled. When I got back in the car after talking I was kind of surprised to see the check engine light on.... looked at the AFR's and it was idling at 17:1. A little lean, but more what I would expect the car to idle at.

turned car off, plugged in black connectors, and active code 24 again. I have seen this code once or twice before when it would barely idle at all. I have since replaced with a junkyard unit that seems to, up until this point be working just fine. It always happens at idle and it always go away after like 50 feet of driving from the stop. But now that I have the cams in and I have the screw turned up to keep the car idling. And since ihave installed a wide band I can see that it is definitely affecting the way the car drives.

But after reading the description of the code, it sounds like the ECU is capable of using fuel cut to limit my speed... so does that mean its running rich to reduce power, thus attempting to limit my speed? I have never heard of problems like this from a bad IAC. Is it possible this is causing my running rich while cruising? I don't want to swap another one in there.

I wish I could use a turbo IAC so I can adjust the idle that way. I have my old 22T manifold in the garage, can I swap on that manifold to utilize the IAC?



so now I have a direction. I just don't know what the heck it means. further digging will be required.
1990 NA 2.2 Open Light rally car
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Re: TurnNBurn's 1990 Subaru Legacy L 2.2 open light rally ca

Post by Legacy777 »

If you've adjusted the IAC, then that's likely why you're seeing that code. The ECU's are pretty dumb, they just look to see if the sensor resistances, duty cycle, etc. are within a certain bound at a giving condition. So if the ECU wants to see that you're at a given duty cycle at idle, but it's not, that could be why you're throwing a code. The other thing to check is the wiring coming from the ECU to the IAC to make sure it's ok.
Josh

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TurnNburn
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Re: TurnNBurn's 1990 Subaru Legacy L 2.2 open light rally ca

Post by TurnNburn »

I have all but given up chasing these problems. the IAC seems to be working fine, pulled it off the car and watched it actuate accordingly. The car seems to idle fine 99% of the time, except when its idling when its around 100*F outside. Which is fine for a race car as far as im concerned.

As for the running rich problem, im over it. I replaced the o2 sensor again and it still runs like poo. It only runs "good" when that sensor is unplugged, at around 13.5:1 at WOT and that's where the power curve is happiest so it must be something in that harness that is pissed off. IDK. I don't really care anymore but I would like it to run "right" so might have to experiment a bit with that later.

I just drove it 520 miles round trip and did my first rally cross in Chehalis, WA, and did the Primitive Rally School with a 30 year rally veteran Paul Eklund. The car ran really well except for me slipping off the steering wheel and braking my key off in the ignition. To much flailing. Cant wait for my steering reducer to get finished. Enough was sticking out to remove it.

Day one was rally school. out of 45 runs from all of the students, my runs were 1st. 3rd and 4th. Not quite a sweep but still pretty good.

Day 2 was the rally cross. 76 entries in all catagories. They totaled up the best 3 out of 4 runs and I placed I 25th overall. 8th in my class. and out of 4 runs only knocked over 1 cone. I even beat all 4 STI's and at least 3 WRX's that entered so I feel pretty good about that. Even though I was beaten by a stock 06 Honda civic and a 14 Legacy automatic airport rental car. lol.

In 2 days of racing I did about 30 miles and averaged about 12 MPG from mostly WOT driving, way better then I thought it would get. The free way miles I was getting around 25.
1990 NA 2.2 Open Light rally car
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Re: TurnNBurn's 1990 Subaru Legacy L 2.2 open light rally ca

Post by Legacy777 »

Yeah, at some point you just got to drive it and if it works well most of the time you may just need to deal with those small hiccups.
Josh

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TurnNburn
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Re: TurnNBurn's 1990 Subaru Legacy L 2.2 open light rally ca

Post by TurnNburn »

Out practicing on Saturday I went out to one of my gravel roads that is 22 miles long. For shits and giggles I plugged in my o2 sensor back in, cleared codes/reset ECU and then proceeded to flog the car for the next 25 minutes.

I noticed right off the bat that the car is running better. The AFR's are the same as before but without seeing the sensor plugged its staying in poop loop and must be retarding the timing. At least that is what it feels like to me. Anyway, drove like a champ until I came to a complete stop at the end of the road.

As soon as the wheels stopped code 24 pooped on and a minute or 2 later code 41 decided to show up (at this point I still had the black connectors in so I noticed when it showed up) and the car proceeded to run like crap again after driving for so well for so long (22 miles).

Iv come to the conclusion my IAC must be bad due to the reoccurring 24 code. Just thinking out loud here, but would this be keeping me in open loop and retarding my timing? But then again, a normal car is in open loop when its cold and it doesn't run retarded. So the default setting when it throws this code must be to run rich and retarded, IE poop loop. Iv always just assumed that my bumped up idle for my cams was the cause of this code but lots of people are rocking these cams without throwing this code so I cant blame it on those anymore. I don't have a spare IAC to throw in there so if someone has a known good one laying around, I will take it.

And I have driven the car 700 miles without an oxygen sensor in it, so why would code 41 show up(A/F learn error) show up after plugging it back in... I cant find a definite answer as to what code 41 means or how to fix it but I see a lot of people talking about swapping throttle bodies or adjusting it.

Once again im at a loss as to why the car runs like this, at least now I know for sure its because of these codes.

Something is fishy here and I don't like it....
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Re: TurnNBurn's 1990 Subaru Legacy L 2.2 open light rally ca

Post by Legacy777 »

Code 41 is something in the ECU. It usually only shows that if the learned fuel trim values are outside of normal parameters. You mentioned you cleared the codes. Did you actually reset the ECU by disconnecting the power to it for an hour? If you did not do this then the ECU wasn't reset and the old fuel trims without the O2 sensor might have caused that code. The other thing to consider is the ECU, maybe that ECU is bad if everything else checks out ok. I didn't reread your thread, so I'm not sure if you've already tried another ECU or not. If the IAC valve solenoid checks out ok, hasn't been adjusted, and the wiring is good then that kind of leaves the ECU. Have you run through all the IAC tests?

http://main.experiencetherave.com/subar ... C_diag.jpg

This link has the other page for the diagnostic instructions.

http://main.experiencetherave.com/subar ... C_Diag.zip
Josh

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TurnNburn
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Re: TurnNBurn's 1990 Subaru Legacy L 2.2 open light rally ca

Post by TurnNburn »

No I didnt disconnect power the most recent time, although I did do that about a month ago after putting the cams in. I just drove with the black and green connectors in until I got the steady flashing light. I have not tried swapping ECU's, I don't know anyone around here that has a 90-91 NA with a 5 speed. But at this point I am willing to try anything.

I removed and cleaned out the IAC again yesterday. wasn't that bad in there and seemed to function normally, but I don't have a different one to compare it to. With power on I can blow through the valve pretty easily with little resistance to flow, and with it off I would say I can only flow about half as much air with the same effort. I don't know how accurate of a test that is.

I will disconnect the battery today while im at work and try that IAC diag you posted. Thanks again Josh!!
1990 NA 2.2 Open Light rally car
TurnNburn
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Re: TurnNBurn's 1990 Subaru Legacy L 2.2 open light rally ca

Post by TurnNburn »

Removed positive and negative battery terminals and attached them together with some wire (to really help drain capacitors and such) and layed into the brake pedals and turned my hazards on just for kicks for about 30 seconds. I let it sit like that for 48 hours, because I didn't have the time to drive it properly after work.

Once i knew i would have time, I started it and let it sit and idle for 15 minutes without touching anything. AFR's at idle were spot on and fluctuating normally. Then I drove about 38 miles round trip. About 10 miles of city/cruising and then 28 miles driving hard out and back down a favorite ribbon of gravel.

When I got back onto asphalt and i started driving "normally" ie. the speed limit and low RPM's, the CEL came on again, code 41, right on schedule. The timing situation felt like it was better but it ran as it always has between 10-12:1 while cruising and around 13.5:1 at WOT.

sounds like I need to try swapping ECU's and see what happens.

After cleaning my IAC the other day, it didn't throw a 24 code this time. So that's a plus.
1990 NA 2.2 Open Light rally car
TurnNburn
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Re: TurnNBurn's 1990 Subaru Legacy L 2.2 open light rally ca

Post by TurnNburn »

Drove the car again today and it threw 41 within 1 mile of driving on a cold start.

Interesting side note, once I got it back, turned the car off, the engine dieseled for about 2 seconds after the key left the ignition. It did that yesterday as well but forgot to mention that.
1990 NA 2.2 Open Light rally car
TurnNburn
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Re: TurnNBurn's 1990 Subaru Legacy L 2.2 open light rally ca

Post by TurnNburn »

well I still haven't figure out my problem but its been a while since I had a proper build update.

I ordered 2006 Legacy GT calipers with brackets to use with my 2006 WRX calipers that I have had forever. I opted to keep and modify the stock dust shield to keep rocks and dust out of my brakes. perhaps I should have gotten the GT dust shield to make it look better, but hey, I thought I did a good enough job bending out the OE one. I used PBR brake pads with their performance ceramic formula ULT. Better then Hawks in my opinion and a bit cheaper. And all installed the rear stainless steal brake lines.

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After a few hundred miles of getting beat on off road without underbody protection it was pretty obvious i was essentially sand blasting the bottom of my car pretty badly. Especially anything in the rear subframe/suspension area. The nice HDPE and LDPE sheets that the pros use are quite expensive at around $250 a sheet, plus shipping. I was explaining my woes to a local old school rally guy and he gave me a neat idea for free under body protection. Truck bed liner! Searched through craigslist and got 2 liners for free. 1 is the HDPE type and the other is 1/2 inch thick rubber.This was all I could cover with the hard one. The rubber one I plan on wrapping around my fender wells.

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With a lot of electrical parts removed from the car during the build/prep of the car and my recent acknowledgement of some electrical problem with my car I decided to go crazy and pull my dash apart and rip out all of the crap I wasn't using and generally clean up body grounds where I could. Also make sure there weren't any more live wires swinging around. wasn't so bad except that my roll cage blocks one of the dash bar bolts from coming all of the way out, so that will have to stay. I didn't find anything of concern yet. So far I have only done the 1 body harness for the dash stuff and 1 body/engine harness that runs out to the passenger side sensors. probably cut out 60 wires. Mostly from rear speakers, door ajar warnings, seat belts and a bunch of unused factory connectors.

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Last edited by TurnNburn on Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
1990 NA 2.2 Open Light rally car
TurnNburn
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Re: TurnNBurn's 1990 Subaru Legacy L 2.2 open light rally ca

Post by TurnNburn »

So out of frustration and lack of options trying to chase this damn code 41, I bought a 93 wagon donor parts car.

I swapped over ECU, MAF and intake manifold so I could get the injectors and a new style IAC. And the car runs GREAT!

And for the record, I am positive the ECU was legitimately bad and the source of my code 41, if it was anything else, the problem would not have changed with swapping ECU's

The engine harnesses were different which I found to be odd. the 90 has 3 connectors and the 93 only had 2, so I kept the 90 harness which worked just fine. and while I had the manifold off and apart I did some thorough cleaning of the throttle body and IAC. And just for fun, painted the manifold red, because race car... and I had the paint laying around. Its left overs from when I painted the roll cage so I wasn't necessarily going for the STI look.

For the first time in the 3 years iv owned this car, it drives really well, doesn't leak, finally doesn't have a check engine light on and is fully insured and registered... *sigh of relief*

Definitely looks out of place in my dirty engine bay
Image
1990 NA 2.2 Open Light rally car
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Re: TurnNBurn's 1990 Subaru Legacy L 2.2 open light rally ca

Post by Legacy777 »

That's great to hear the new ECU fixed the code! I think the 92-94 injectors are a little better as well, so that's a bonus upgrade.

Yeah the engine harness plugs on some of the 92-94 MY's are two plugs instead of three on the 90.
Josh

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TurnNburn
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Re: TurnNBurn's 1990 Subaru Legacy L 2.2 open light rally ca

Post by TurnNburn »

Yeah better more reliable injectors, a more common MAF and a more serviceable/adjustable IAC are pluses in my book.

I am considering putting the newer style stock air intake on to see if it really is as much of an improvement as everyone claims to be. But other then that. Everything on the car is ready to start slaying some stages

I was planning on hitting up Mt Hood rally in the middle of October but am getting married on sept 29th in Fiji and will be there until the October 19th. So unfortunately I wont be making it. But that just means I will try and do all of the regional events next year.

Rookie of the year has a nice ring to it, and with this car I think I have a fighting chance.
1990 NA 2.2 Open Light rally car
TurnNburn
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Re: TurnNBurn's 1990 Subaru Legacy L 2.2 open light rally ca

Post by TurnNburn »

Car is running great! iv replaced passenger side rear cam twice now, and its leaking again. I guess I am going to have to take a close look and see what is up with that...

Finally got a roof scoop on and went out to do some sunset photo shoots. The difference in airflow through the vent is amazing!

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1990 NA 2.2 Open Light rally car
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