Methanol Injection.....

drewriviera · Post by **drewriviera** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 12:17 am

I was wondering if anyone had put a methanol setup on their ride? I was thinking with all the trouble that I've found it takes to install my AWIC this would be easier and even more effective. Anyone care to share their experiences?
Thanks
-Andrew

BXSS · Post by **BXSS** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 4:03 pm

Meth works Well.

My buddy just put one of my old meth kits on a sentra SR20 / WRX non intercooled homemade turbo car & it really woke up.
Only problem is the clutch is slipping now....

There are a bunch of Meth posts out there here is my old one
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=32461

skid542 · Post by **skid542** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 6:45 pm

I'm running a water/meth injection system and love it. I went it over the TMIC I was running. I'll try to get some pictures up this week. I think there may be some information about my setup floating around the BBS.

I'll try to expand more later, but this is a worthwhile thing to do if you have the money to do it right.

drewriviera · Post by **drewriviera** » Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:18 pm

That's cool, has anyone put a setup on without the aid of an intercooler? Also is it true that this setup will gain you about 25 wheel horsepower? The claims of this are pretty good.....it seems like it would work better than an intercooler?

skid542 · Post by **skid542** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:24 am

I am running only water/meth injection. Carlos has also run this configuration, aka no intercooler.

You need to understand that injection and intercooling are two completely different beasts.

Intercooling will cool the air prior to entering the chamber and you will see improvements from the cool air due better combustion and also from pushing more air into the chambers.

Injection will give better combustion and increased detonation resistance but will not give a denser air charge going into the chambers.

The real gains from injection are not realized unless you have some form of engine management. By injection meth you increase the octane of the fuel significantly and you can dial in more timing and get more power that way. Adding injection by itself will probably not give large gains on a stock setup. Some of the claims are definately true but your mileage will vary greatly from setup to setup. I haven't really noticed a whole lot, definately some though, since I'm still running an essentially stock setup, just a few more psi. Now if I had a way to control timing then I could pull more power of my setup, but that's not installed right now. But I do take great comfort in knowing that I don't have to worry about detonation on hot summer days sitting in traffic. I hit the gas and go.

The other major benefit of injection is the ability to control your fuel without larger injectors and fancy EM.

If you are serious about this, I would suggest going over to Nasioc and doing some real research. I know, I just recommended Nasioc, but there is a ton of info on this form of cooling. There are a lot of options out there but you can get yourself into a lot of money real quick depending on how fancy you get and what your ultimate goals are.

I hope I am not coming across preachy, I don't want to be, but if you're going to go this route you need to take some time and think about what your ultimate goals are with your car (you may already have, I don't know

). I ultimately want 350 AWHP and the setup I have in my car will help get me there safely but is complete overkill for the ~210chp I'm pushing now.

But now that I've gone injection, I will never go back to just a TMIC or even just a FMIC for that matter. Injection owns

.

FWIW, I haven't forgotten about getting some pictures up to show you an example of my install. It just hasn't happened yet

.

drewriviera · Post by **drewriviera** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:23 pm

Thanks for the info! I would love to get some kind of aftermarket engine management for mine to have the ability to advance timing and such, but I really don't know what to get. I do know about the Perfect Power 6, but can't figure it out. It looks to me like there are several different modules that go with the Perfect Power 6, not just one unit that does it all right? How would you get a setup to advance timing? How much does this cost? Since I'm used to working on pre-1973 American muscle, this is my daily driver. I have headers, no cats, a Centerforce clutch and a few other things on my 91 Turbo Legacy, so this injection is probably the last thing I will put on it. I'm looking for about 200-225 hp with the injection and then I'm happy with it. I am pretty confused when it comes to new cars with computer on them. If someone told me exactly what to buy to advance timing, I could do it, but I have a hard time sometimes with the lingo on here

I am thinking about the kit that AEM makes for the injection that has the one gallon tank. What kind do you have?

Post by **Legacy777** » Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:41 pm

The perfect power 6 is a piggy back ECU. There's no modules or anything, it's all one unit. However what you hook and what you use may be what you're referring to.

The PP6 can control fuel & timing, and I believe does have some engine temperature correction, but it will do the basics of fuel & timing.

drewriviera · Post by **drewriviera** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:12 pm

Thanks as usual Josh!

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 6:22 pm

You're welcome.

skid542 · Post by **skid542** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 4:12 pm

I can't give you a whole lot of info on the EM side of things. I know MSD makes an ignition system that will allow you to adjust the timing but I don't know what variables it uses for input or anything regarding its installation.

With regards to the AEM kit. I'm sure it would work. Right now, I'm going to get pictures at lunch time today provided the rain holds off, but I am using a relatively custom setup.

I have an Aquamist race pump that pushes 150 psi through what I believe is a 0.4 mm nozzle. The nozzle came with the setup that I bought from a friend who's had it long enough to forget exactly what size the nozzle was. But for what I'm doing right now, I don't need real precise control. For a tank setup, I am using a windshield washer tank from my 96' OBW and using the pump that would normally go to the rear wiper to fill my priming tank. The priming tank is a small 8 oz model airplane fuel tank - model airplanes use a fuel consiting of methenol and nitromethane. This tank then feeds the injection pump directly. A small pressure operated switch turns on both pumps at around 7 psi. I also have a low level indicator installed in the windshield washer tank - which the OBW tank has a perfect spot for it and the OBW tank also bolts right into place with ZERO modification.

I think the pictures will give you a better idea of what I'm running.

skid542 · Post by **skid542** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:15 pm

And without further adu -

Overall engine bay -

Close up -

Interior shot with warning/run lights, toggle switch is to arm the system, green light comes one when the pump is pumping and the red light is my low level indicator -

drewriviera · Post by **drewriviera** » Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:52 pm

Cool! Not to be off subject, but what kind of a strut tower brace is that is the pic?

skid542 · Post by **skid542** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 12:11 am

Thank you, it's a pretty basic setup right now but everything is in place for a flow controller and a no-flow warning system (which is critical if you have a motor setup that is dependant on the injection for proper fueling). It runs on it's own 15A fused and relay'd circuit.

The strut brace I got from a fellow BBS member (thanks Adam) but it has Hairpin Racing on it. Super beefy and with it being rectangular it's a real convient mounting location to which I've become a big fan of. I think it's stronger and better built than the Cusco rear strut bar I have installed.

drewriviera · Post by **drewriviera** » Fri Oct 24, 2008 10:16 pm

Yeah I noticed that mounting place!

That bar does look a hell of a lot thicker than the other ones that you can buy.

Boostedballs · Post by **Boostedballs** » Thu Nov 20, 2008 8:53 pm

drewriviera wrote:That's cool, has anyone put a setup on without the aid of an intercooler? Also is it true that this setup will gain you about 25 wheel horsepower? The claims of this are pretty good.....it seems like it would work better than an intercooler?

I ran 125psi water/meth without an intercooler and it dropped my intake temps from around 180F to 160F. (Fluke 52 II with K thermocouple) It did seem to run a little stronger but I doubt 25HP. Maybe 5 or 10 with my butt dyno.

It's a worthwhile upgrade but I would also use an intercooler, you will notice the power there.

aspect · Post by **aspect** » Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:12 am

I very strongly suggest you do not run a meth system without including a low/high flow rate sensor and a tank level sensor. Just using a low flow warning does not detect punctured lines after the sensor, or stuck-on solenoids. I would also strongly suggest that you do more with this warning than just turn on a light...a good system like an aquamist hfs-5 will bypass your boost control and switch you over to wastegate pressure if there is an issue with the meth system.

If you tune properly for meth, you will most likely cause significant engine damage very quickly when the system fails.

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Methanol Injection.....

Methanol Injection.....