Intercooler Or Water Methanol Injection???

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slipknot51
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Intercooler Or Water Methanol Injection???

Post by slipknot51 »

So i have been debating on what i should do with my 91' Legacy ss and right now its stock and i was thinking about doing a TD04 swap into it but now since revtronix is mia and doesn't make any chips for the legacy's i have been trying to figure out another option and i know i could do a whole new stand alone system like going with power fc or something along the lines of that but i really did like the chip idea. I know that i have been really thing about putting in the TD04 and running it at 12psi and instead if intercooling go with the AEM 30-3002 Water/Methanol Injection Pump and Jet Kit which i know has a fail safe were it can be hooked up to the boost controller and when you run low or out of Water/Methanol it will automatically turn boost down to what ever wastegate pressure is. So if anyone wants to throw some ideas or some examples of what ya did that would be awesome thanks. :)
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Legacy777
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Re: Intercooler Or Water Methanol Injection???

Post by Legacy777 »

I think people may have run the TD04 without an intercooler. You could probably do it with the boost you're looking at running. It really depends on how the engine runs. If it can deal with the higher intake charge temps without detonation issues, it would work. Putting the intercooler or meth injection would lower temps and increase power a little.

Hopefully someone with direct experience on the meth injection kits can reply with some more info.
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Re: Intercooler Or Water Methanol Injection???

Post by cj91legss »

i was kind of curious on the water/meth injection as well, would both an intercooler and either of those be too much?
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Re: Intercooler Or Water Methanol Injection???

Post by Legacy777 »

I think both may be a little overkill, but would likely lower intake temps further, which would improve power.

One of the benefits from a water/meth injection setup is that you don't have the pressure drop addition from the intercooler. So like I said, having both intercooler and meth may be overkill.
Josh

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slipknot51
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Re: Intercooler Or Water Methanol Injection???

Post by slipknot51 »

Yeah it might be a little over kill for the boost levels im thinking about running at for right now but i know with the water/meth kit i should be able to raise boost (that is if the engine can handle it) and not have to do any swaping of parts later on (Aka top mount to front mount) I know that there is alot more pressure drops in the front compaired to top which there still is some pressure drop which water/meth doesn't so win lol :3. I remember some one once telling me that for every 10 degrees removed from either fuel or intake charge there would be an increase of horse power by 1 horse power in a perfect world which doesn't seem like much. But for example when your running a temp of estimated say 300 degrees out of the turbo and after intercooling it drops it down to say 160 and you then have coolant lines running in the throttle body that would raise it say maybe to 190 and the heat soke from the manifold so its might be maybe 200 by the time it reaches the pistons so with intercooling it would give you maybe a 10hp gain in a perfect world. Which of corse there made up numbers to lol and maybe lose about maybe say 1-3 psi depending on how good of a intercooler you have. idk i like the idea of not having the pressure lose which is nice but i know water/meth is not a reliable as intercooling is but they do have some good fail safes now to.
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Re: Intercooler Or Water Methanol Injection???

Post by cj91legss »

slipknot51 wrote:But for example when your running a temp of estimated say 300 degrees out of the turbo and after intercooling it drops it down to say 160 and you then have coolant lines running in the throttle body that would raise it say maybe to 190

Not if your coolant lines arent going thru your throttle body :)
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slipknot51
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Re: Intercooler Or Water Methanol Injection???

Post by slipknot51 »

haha true that when you do the delete lol. I know that in the older carbureted vehicles they used the coolant lines to warm up the throttle body/ intake manifold so they can prevent the air fuel mix from turning back into a liquid/drops and keep its a vapor. They also had other means as well that heated up the intake air charge(which we dont have to worry about since were fuel injected :). But if you not running a intercooler and your running above stock boost pressure's it can be a good thing to have the coolant lines hooked up still because they can some what lower the intake air charge maybe not by much but it could be the difference between having detonation and not. I know that the vf11 that come stock in the ss it doesn't really take much to cause it to blow hot air i remember reading that the turbos best efficiency is right around stock boost levels for our displacement and what not. I also have looked into turbos and found that the td04 is good up to around 16 for our cars before they start to lose there efficiency which is what i would like to do :) but in the future
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Re: Intercooler Or Water Methanol Injection???

Post by cj91legss »

i had a td04, yes they're good til 16, upgraded to a vf39, which im sure is blown and dumping oil into my compressor. i think i bought a bad vf39 honestly... BUT ANYWAYS

i wasn't too happy with the td04 which is why i upgraded.

Now back on topic, i thought the use of water injection would also help keep engine internals cleaner?
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93 SS Bone Stock Gone!
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Re: Intercooler Or Water Methanol Injection???

Post by asotwavb »

cj91legss wrote:Now back on topic, i thought the use of water injection would also help keep engine internals cleaner?
That is, untill you hydro-lock the motor :lol:
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Re: Intercooler Or Water Methanol Injection???

Post by cj91legss »

Well then, nevermind on that note
91 L-TW Wagon with a full Swap -RIP
92 SS Prefaced, GD dash swapped, 22T/205 Hybrid 20 psi - BEAST!
93 SS Bone Stock Gone!
94 TW Bone Stock Gone!
91 SS 4EAT Sold!
98 LGT 4EAT
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slipknot51
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Re: Intercooler Or Water Methanol Injection???

Post by slipknot51 »

The only reason that some one would hydro lock is because the jet size is to big for the application that your running also not having the vehicle tuned right lol. I know that with any turbo car you should have is a wide band and a boost pressure gauge that way you know when you start going onto boost and can see what your A/F ratio is and know if you safe and also when you do put a water/meth kit in you can have some one else watch your gauges and see if you have going excessively rich and then you can go from there and try different size jets to see which one works best for your application. Got to love wide bands :). I know that in later cars and our cars that have switch out to aftermarket ecu's have the ability to do data loging which is very helpful to. More on the update for water/meth injecton i have been talking to my friend that is Involved with more of the DSM stuff and he recomended two different kits the first is Devilsown. He likes this kit because they are not to bad for the price and that the kits are well upgradable so when you want to add more boost or want more stuff to make she system more fail safe they have alot of extra the other kit that he said to look into is Aquamist. From what i have been reading Aquamist is more of an integration system and that is ties into your ecm to better control the injection timing for when you inject the water/meth which is nice.
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Re: Intercooler Or Water Methanol Injection???

Post by Mattheww044 »

not to disrupt your guys' cpnversation, but is there a guide or w/e to the coolant line delete in the TB? Heard a few things here and there about it but I haven't had a chance to look into it. Thanks
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Re: Intercooler Or Water Methanol Injection???

Post by kimokalihi »

Here's a thread about it on scooby mods. http://www.scoobymods.com/coolant-bypas ... ant+bypass

I saw a writeup on one of the subaru forums. I did it to mine. That thread does make a good point. It could be dangerous if it does somehow freeze open.
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slipknot51
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Re: Intercooler Or Water Methanol Injection???

Post by slipknot51 »

Im sure that there is a way that you could plum in a shut of valve to the throttle body so when i does get cold out you can open it back up and not have any issues. Me personally I dont really think it would be that big of an issue because if you think about it your engine bay warms up quite a bit even if temps out side are in the minus numbers i know for instant that when it was like minus 20 out when my car was warmed up my intake temp was in the mid 40's which is above freezing and when it comes to the turbo outlet you still will have the air might actually be hot because when you have a pressure increase you get a temp increase Thank you A/C lol. My point is that you shouldn't really have any issue with it and i know of a few people that have done it to there cars and they have no problems in the winter.
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Re: Intercooler Or Water Methanol Injection???

Post by cj91legss »

How would it get stuck open??? You'd have to have the throttle open all night for it they stuck open. And even if it did freeze over night it would open when u started the car and if it stuck then, you should theoretically be home or able to work on it.
91 L-TW Wagon with a full Swap -RIP
92 SS Prefaced, GD dash swapped, 22T/205 Hybrid 20 psi - BEAST!
93 SS Bone Stock Gone!
94 TW Bone Stock Gone!
91 SS 4EAT Sold!
98 LGT 4EAT
98 LGT Wagon 4EAT
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