fmic vs tmic?

[Aaron's ej22t]

your opinions, is it worth it for a fmic? or would a bigger hood scoop and a tmic with waterspray be enough? how about a tm air/water?

-aaron.

[DLC]

If you want the best compromise for a street car, do AWIC.

A top mount is really simple and works better than nothing. Front mount is terribly difficult to make fit well on a car that doesn't really have room in the stock bumper.

Air/Water puts a smaller heat exchanger up front, small water lines and a pump. The cooler itself is the difficult part to get to fit right.

I'd like to convert mine to an air/water because i prefer the absorbtion properties of water and the ability to put the exchanger in good airflow instead of worrying about whether there's enough air being scooped into my engine bay, which there most certainly isn't.

Dave

[Aaron's ej22t]

I was leaning towards AWIC. fmic is too involved and probably not needed unless you want to push more than 285 hp or so and live in a fairly warm area where detonation could be a problem. air-air tmic is a good upgrade for mild power, but AWIC gets you the best of both worlds. i agree with you dave. I only want like 250 crank hp. my setup that i am working towards includes:
-silencer removal + k&n panel filter
-ngk plugs & wires
-subaru air/water ic
-AC removal
-mbc @ 12psi
-catless 2.5 or 3inch exhaust
-ground mod
-apexi safc

would a 2.5rs coilpack make a difference on my car?

[kelley]

aaron, just do a tmic. I know of people with wrx's puting out 275 whp (aprox. 350 crank hp) with a stock wrx tmic) the only reason why I am getting a fmic is because I want to obtain atleast 500 crank horsepower and any tmic I could fit would have to be quite small and I don't think It would be up to the task.

[zak]

If I were you, I would go with the top mount air-air. I do have a air-water, but for all the trouble I went through, I wish I would have just got an air-air instead. It is also cheaper, and less stuff to break/worry about. It is more simple, and it will handle the power output you want with ease. I have never sworn (sp?) at my car more then when I was trying to fit that horrible black box on top of my throttle body . Not a fun expierience. If you are up to it though, an air-water is a unique approach to the whole bit. I guess thats why I chose it at first, not knowing how difficult it would be. Either way, its a fun project Good luck!:D

[Adambc5]

air water works GREAT ona car that is driven for very short bursts (such as a drag car) and/or where space is limited. However, on a street car, they are not the most practical setups, and given their relative cost, a simple air to air would be a better overall choice IMHO.

And just to show what a top mount (alleged by many as vastly inferior to a front mount), my RS with an Sti V4 motor swap in it, ran consistent high 11 second passes, on pump gas, with a bog standard Sti V4 top mount IC....at 117-118....food for thought!

Adam

[Aaron's ej22t]

Well, i did some research, and i believe i am going to do a air/water ic. Zak told me about a company i can get the intercooler, inlet "Y" pipe and bov for $150. I am going to get the silver one instead of black. I also need to find a quiet inline water pump and i am going to have a custom water tank built that will be about 6x6x6 inches square and mount it next to my battery. of course, i will have to get a dynabatt battery, but it will fit fine. (i measured) anyway, i have not decided on what radiator to use. i don't want to use the ac radiator. i was thinking of a small motorcycle radiator.

oh and adam, i have to kindly disagree with you on the awic efficiency.
http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~gavinp/airwater.htm

that site shows that intake temps can be held constant and very low. that guy got his intake temps down to 97 degreesF! that is really low. I am going to have a similar setup when all done. the only reason i dont like the idea of a air-air tmic is that the hood scoop is so small and won't get enough air to it. also, there isn't much room in there and i don't feel like cutting the stock hood to fit a STI scoop. besides, like Zak said, If i do this, i will be different that most. then, not only Zak and siryacho, but myself too will be proud to sport a AWIC!

[Adambc5]

Soounds good...like I said, there are pluses and minueses to all setups, and not one type can be all things to all people.

As for the Dynabatt, I would strongly recommend you try another battery...perhaps one from a Miata or something. I had awful luck with Dynabbats twice now, first in my GC8, then in my GVR4, and have sworn against them now for street usage. Seems that they don't like traffic very much (i.e. they don't like being held at near idle for sustained periods). Once I switched to an Optima in the trunk on both cars (went with yellow tops both times0, all was solved, and still am on the same alternators as well.

[Legacy777]

I too would highly recommend the yellow top optimas.....great battery......my one uncle talked me out of it the first time around.......after that battery went dead in a year or two......I said screw it.....I want the yellow top.....got it from summitracing.

[Adambc5]

read the article...definately informative. But, that is a heck of alot of work, and lot of cost involved jsut to get 97 degrees....he also failed to mention the outside temperature and humidity when those test were done IIRC, and obviously that has everything to do with the results. Would also be interesting to note the temps of the turbo outlet pipe vs. the throttle body..I have a SPA gauge on my GVR4 and my Z that shows this, and it is very useful when tuning...has 2 temp probes, and we install them pre and post IC to measure the differences at various fuel, timing and bosot settings....really nice. ont eh Z it is less important as we run a TECII, and this shows intake air temp as well, but only post IC.

For the costs involved, I would still personally maintain air to ai is the way to go, but eitehr setup will work just fine. Weight is an issue I guess, but this car is such a pig to begin with, I doubt highly anyone would ever notice the additional weight an air-water system introduces.

Good luck and post pics!

Adam
www.z1auto.com

[Aaron's ej22t]

thanks adam. i hear ya about the air-air, i could probably pick up a wrx intercooler for about $150-200. either new-age or 93-96. even a custom fmic is possible, but i don't think i want to go that route. I like the idea of a awic. it will cost $150, but then i have to buy a inline water pump, a small heat exchanger and get a small water tank. I may end up spending like $300 all together, but it is worth it IMHO. oh yeah, thanks for the tip on the battery. how hard is it to trunk mount it? are there any other good but small batteries?

-aaron.

[Sir Yach-o]

Aaron,

Not going to go with the stock liberty water pump? Keep us posted with your project, I'm interested in all of the different versions that we've got using virtually the same part.

And, oh yeah, Al's got the silver Liberty RS ic, so he's in the "elite" as well.

-mike

[Aaron's ej22t]

sir yacho, i didnt know where to get the liberty water pump. i do have a line on the IC, inlet hose w/bov. i might use the a/c radiator, but would rather use a water specific core. I aksed a local shop on how much it would be to custom fab a 5x8x8 water tank, and he said it would be $250!
i was shocked. I know another local guy, and i will have him give me an estimate, probably on thursday. my IC project will more than likely take longer than i wanted, but oh well. i would rather do suspension and brakes, exhaust before i start messin' with boost and a IC.

-Aaron.

[Sir Yach-o]

well, depending on where you're getting the IC and other stuff from, you should be able to get the pump from the same place most likely. I got all of my stuff from the same junk dealer in New Zealand, it took him only one day to round up everything.

As far as the custom tank, yeah, anything custom can have a price. What material? Aluminum? With a price like that, you might want to reconsider if it's worth having the external tank. Or just find a decent container, put two holes in it and seal it up good. You shouldn't need anything crazy, a plastic container would work, since there's not an immense amount of pressure flowing through this system.

-mike

[Aaron's ej22t]

well, after thinking about it. if i wanted to do it right, a AWIC is going to be a good amount of work. it would probably cost about $450 to have a really good setup. although, they are very complex with more parts to leak, break, etc....An air-air is still an option, although, my plans have changed a bit. I am thinking of getting a Spearco fmic and getting custom piping made. this would run about $900 total. here is my list that i want to work towards:
-custom intake, catless turboback, msd ignition, walbro fuel pump, bigger injectors, VF23 turbo, spearco fmic, exedy clutch/flywheel and a Unichip. would a Unichip be able to tune it good along with a msd ignitoin? or will i need a standalone ecu?
I also want a fuel cut lifter and would like to run 1 bar (14.5).

any thoughts?

[mile hi]

Sounds like a nice setup but one question why the MSD ? We have a Ej22t at 450hp and it is running a stock ign. I have checked the system and it seems to be doing fine. We had one MSD setup that was installed by the customer on the theory that with a radical cam the spark was being blown out and the msd would cure that. It didn't and he went back to the stock ign. He might want to sell it, I can check on it if you want me to.
AL(CO)

[Legacy777]

Al,

I've installed the MSD Dis2 igntion on my legacy. I can honestly tell ya it does help the engine. On the newer subie engines, the amount of gain that can be seen is probably less. But on the first gen legacies you do notice a difference