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 Post subject: Best manifold/up pipe/down pipe
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:21 am 
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Is the stock 22T manifold the same as like a 02-07 WRX/STi one? What would be the best to P&P and stick a grimspeed X-pipe on?

Thinking a grimspeed uppipe to match? IDK

What's the highest hanging DP you can get?


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 Post subject: Re: Best manifold/up pipe/down pipe
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:16 am 
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Don't worry about it at under 400+whp. The stock system isn't the restriction under that, and making the passages larger, gasket matching, etc, will hurt your spool time, response, and low end power.
The 22t, 20g, 20k exhaust manifold is nearly identical to the later stuff, and our up pipes have no cats, just like the STI. Unless it's broken, you are spending money with no benefit.

As far as the DP, if you're talking aftermarket, a DP designed for a GC8 or BC would hang higher than a GD downpipe.

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 Post subject: Re: Best manifold/up pipe/down pipe
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:56 am 
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mike-tracy wrote:
Don't worry about it at under 400+whp. The stock system isn't the restriction under that, and making the passages larger, gasket matching, etc, will hurt your spool time, response, and low end power.
The 22t, 20g, 20k exhaust manifold is nearly identical to the later stuff, and our up pipes have no cats, just like the STI. Unless it's broken, you are spending money with no benefit.
Well I'm planning a 550 rob tune with injectors, 06-07 WRX IC and a bigger turbo then eventually EJ25D heads... still don't need to worry about the pre turbo exhaust?

mike-tracy wrote:
As far as the DP, if you're talking aftermarket, a DP designed for a GC8 or BC would hang higher than a GD downpipe.
Hmmm ok good to know, I think I have a custom one on now? It's got a slip joint to the mid-pipe and the O2 is moved way down to where the mid-pipe attaches so I kind of want to get a new one with the bung in the same spot and maybe a high-flow cat.... save the planet.

What about turbo head shields and radiator shrouds and hood scoops? The radiator in these cars looks so thin.


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 Post subject: Re: Best manifold/up pipe/down pipe
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:44 am 
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The rob tune and associated upgrades will net you 220-250 whp. The manifold is not even close to being a restriction for the those parts. It's that good from the factory! ;)


A factory legacy turbo radiator lasts about 10-15 years, sometimes longer. The plastic side pieces crack from age. You can still buy it at the dealership, or you could last time I checked. The Koyo and Mishimoto upgraded fancy pants race model radiators all crack in short order. Usually in your first year of ownership! We have a thread about that, very disappointing. Compare that to the decade plus the factory one lasts. My latest radiator is dealer supplied (made by Koyo as it were), and looks identical to the original-to-the-car-as-far-as-i-can-tell one I took out except for brand.

It is rally proven - the old Subaru rally cars used a.... stock turbo legacy radiator! Matter of fact, all the GC8's through at least the ej20k, (and probably the ver 5-6 ej207's, but I have no first hand experience) used this radiator. It is a beast! Assuming yours is intact, and complete with the stock factory shrouds and working fans, you will never, ever have a problem with cooling due to it.

Hood scoops - nothing fits. Some people epoxy on later scoops over the hole, etc. You could cut and weld if you like, but since the turbo hoods are so rare, you should use an n/a hood for that.

The stock turbo heatshield/ducting (called the turbo chimney) is great, but it doesn't work with the USDM TMIC's. You could buy a turbo shield, oem or aftermarket which fits a WRX or STI, and assuming you get all the brackets with it, it'll bolt on. I purchased a turbo blanket and that does a far better job since it stops the heat from escaping down like with a sheild. On ebay search for "usa made subaru turbo blanket" for the one I picked. Don't worry about the specific turbos listed in the add (VF34! VF22!), it'll work, because the shape is generic and you use steel wire to secure it.


Give these cars some credit, they are a great base for a fun toy. Do a little searching, see what others have done, etc. This site has been around since 2002, and 99.9% of anything you can think of has been asked or done already.

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 Post subject: Re: Best manifold/up pipe/down pipe
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:18 am 
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Good to know on the radiator.

mike-tracy wrote:
Hood scoops - nothing fits. Some people epoxy on later scoops over the hole, etc. You could cut and weld if you like, but since the turbo hoods are so rare, you should use an n/a hood for that.

The stock turbo heatshield/ducting (called the turbo chimney) is great, but it doesn't work with the USDM TMIC's. You could buy a turbo shield, oem or aftermarket which fits a WRX or STI, and assuming you get all the brackets with it, it'll bolt on. I purchased a turbo blanket and that does a far better job since it stops the heat from escaping down like with a sheild. On ebay search for "usa made subaru turbo blanket" for the one I picked. Don't worry about the specific turbos listed in the add (VF34! VF22!), it'll work, because the shape is generic and you use steel wire to secure it.


Give these cars some credit, they are a great base for a fun toy. Do a little searching, see what others have done, etc. This site has been around since 2002, and 99.9% of anything you can think of has been asked or done already.
On my car I see that the scoop directs the air over and down to the turbo but thats all...... should I just cut that insert out when I do a top mount?

Who cares if the heat goes down, I just don't want it to heat soak the IC and intake. Wouldn't a turbo blanket wear out the turbo faster? I would also think you would want to run a longer turbo timer...


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 Post subject: Re: Best manifold/up pipe/down pipe
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 2:32 am 
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The difference between a heat shield and a heat blanket is - the shield directs the heat down and away from the turbo. When you're moving, no big deal. Air passing in the engine bay and under the car pulls it away. When you come to a stop, that heat goes back up into the engine bay, heat soaking your tmic etc. The heat blanket lets virtually no heat out, instead the downpipe carries it away and out the back. The turbo is designed to heat up and cool down thousands of times during it's life. Things like oil quality and a coolant system in good working order have much more to do with it's longevity than anything else.

Speaking good oil and cooling - Subaru designed the systems so when you shut down the car, convection currents cause the coolant to keep cycling, effectively cooling down the turbo (and the rest of the car) naturally. Subaru recommends driving normally for x number of minutes or miles after "hard driving" to let the components cool down. The amount of time or distance is specified in the manual, but my memory is failing me. So, a turbo timer is not necessary. But, you could wire one in if you really wanted to. Most people (including with rob tunes) don't use them.

Most people just remove it, but I like your idea of chopping the under-hood duct down. Maybe use something like garage door seal or similar to make a better seal to your tmic. I removed the duct, and despite my 06 wrx tmic not getting air forced through it, I haven't noticed heat soak, except when I start moving again after being in traffic (remember I live in Washington, not somewhere warmer like Cali or Arizona). I have the robtune, td05, 3" DP, etc. I'd love to install the stock JDM Turbo Legacy air-to-water intercooler setup some day. I'm sure heatsoak would be a thing of the past with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Best manifold/up pipe/down pipe
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 5:44 am 
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Do the 22T's have the little filter bolt in the oil line that newer turbo cars have?

The coolant may keep circulating but does the oil?

Idk I also think heat shields look cooler, but maybe ill get a blanket.

What about other little bits like an oil catchcan or an aftermarket coolant reservoir? You need to relocate the coolant reservoir for a TMIC right?

I have done lots of searching, I know what needs to be done just not how to do it, if that makes sense. I know I need a 90 degree elbow to use another turbo, but WHAT 90 elbow I have no idea.

Can a Robtune handle 25D heads?


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 Post subject: Re: Best manifold/up pipe/down pipe
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 6:48 am 
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No little mesh filter in the oil line. That came about when they introduced AVCS (variable valve timing) in the mid 2000s.

The oil keeps circulating to some degree. Most of the cooling action after the car is shut off is due to the coolant however.

You can get both a turbo blanket and a turbo shield if you wanted...for looks, though I'm not sure how well it would fit ;)

Oil catch cans and coolant reservoirs aren't strictly necessary, though I think a catch can has it's benefits if you have a lot of oil blow by. The legacy turbo PCV setup is different than the later WRX and sti's. A catch can must not be routed the same way. Here is a discussion about catch cans: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=45711 and the 2nd page talks about a specific wrx catch can and how the legacy PCV setup works: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=45711&hilit=catch+can&start=25

Yes the stock reservoir needs to be relocated with an american TMIC. You'll be buying several feet of heater hose from a parts store. Your clutch master cylinder needs to be chopped down as well.

Rob has a specific tune for ej25d/ej22t combos. This isn't an ideal combination in my opinion. You lower the effective static compression, so crank up the boost and enjoy a laggier car that pulls hard up top? Well the NA cams don't breathe up top (even if those heads do), so you end up with a laggy engine with little top end. Better solution would be to find ej20k or ej20r turbo cams (or the whole heads and not mess with shimming the valves and drilling and tapping for oil and coolant, which you'll have to do with the NA 25d heads), as those heads are near as makes no difference the same.

My favorite option? KISS - Keep your stock heads and grab some delta cams. They make them in 3 different grinds - a torque grind, one for HP, and a 3rd type for race car with full standalone. Personally I'd go for the HP grind since these engines already make great torque in stock configuration.

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 Post subject: Re: Best manifold/up pipe/down pipe
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2016 2:15 am 
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Whats the best oil and filter to use? Just 5w30 synthetic?

mike-tracy wrote:
Oil catch cans and coolant reservoirs aren't strictly necessary, though I think a catch can has it's benefits if you have a lot of oil blow by. The legacy turbo PCV setup is different than the later WRX and sti's. A catch can must not be routed the same way. Here is a discussion about catch cans: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=45711 and the 2nd page talks about a specific wrx catch can and how the legacy PCV setup works: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=45711&hilit=catch+can&start=25

Yes the stock reservoir needs to be relocated with an american TMIC. You'll be buying several feet of heater hose from a parts store. Your clutch master cylinder needs to be chopped down as well.
Ok, I would just like a catch can, and a matching resevour sense I need to move it anyway, I think would look nice.


mike-tracy wrote:
Rob has a specific tune for ej25d/ej22t combos. This isn't an ideal combination in my opinion. You lower the effective static compression, so crank up the boost and enjoy a laggier car that pulls hard up top? Well the NA cams don't breathe up top (even if those heads do), so you end up with a laggy engine with little top end. Better solution would be to find ej20k or ej20r turbo cams (or the whole heads and not mess with shimming the valves and drilling and tapping for oil and coolant, which you'll have to do with the NA 25d heads), as those heads are near as makes no difference the same.

My favorite option? KISS - Keep your stock heads and grab some delta cams. They make them in 3 different grinds - a torque grind, one for HP, and a 3rd type for race car with full standalone. Personally I'd go for the HP grind since these engines already make great torque in stock configuration.
Huh? I've always been told "The stock SOHC heads don't make power and never will". Maybe with porting but that's a ton of money vs $100-$200 for a set of heads. I thought the 25D heads would be better? But the 20K or 20R heads would be the best? Althought a set of cams isn't bad, will a 550 ROBtune run fine with cams?.


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 Post subject: Re: Best manifold/up pipe/down pipe
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 6:50 am 
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The best filter and oil? Spend a few weeks reading bobistheoilguy.com, all your answers will be found there lol. A whole forum on just oils and filters, can you imagine. The manual calls for 10w30 except in cold conditions, then 5w30 may be used. I personally use Rotella T6 10w40 and the compatible K&N oil filter.

When it comes to power on these things, consider your budget. A 250whp stock block ej22t is quite a fun car, and from where you're at, it'll cost under a grand to get there. Now you're talking about getting DOHC heads. How much are those? How much for a manifold? All new gaskets? New DOHC timing belt and equipment? Machine work? Valve job? You could easily spend a grand on the heads and hardware needed to support them, plus another grand on the tune, turbo and anything else you need.

So you spend a grand from where you're at now and get a ~250whp ej22t, or you spend 2 grand and get a dohc engine and get 10-30 more WHP but less torque. That's why I mentioned the 22t as an option. Now, if you are going to go full standalone down the road (hardware, installation and a tune will be another couple grand when you're done), then the dohc setup is the way to go. Add a bigger turbo and injectors on top of that and you've spend another grand or two there too. Now you have a 25 year old car with more money in it than a WRX, or 4th gen Legacy GT (at least where i live. I keep seeing them in the 5-6k range on craigslist).

Not trying to discourage you or be a dick. But the dohc path is an expensive one with a very small gain in performance until you get a standalone. Then it gets even more expensive, very quickly.

If you're still looking for DOHC turbo heads after all that, then the ej20k STI or ej20r heads are the best. Yes, the robtune adjusts for cams, but there are compromises. Worse idle, fuel economy, drivability suffers a tad until in boost.

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 Post subject: Re: Best manifold/up pipe/down pipe
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 10:23 pm 
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mike-tracy wrote:
The best filter and oil? Spend a few weeks reading bobistheoilguy.com, all your answers will be found there lol. A whole forum on just oils and filters, can you imagine. The manual calls for 10w30 except in cold conditions, then 5w30 may be used. I personally use Rotella T6 10w40 and the compatible K&N oil filter.
So T6 is still the best option? I just though turbo motors were a lot different then I open the manual and see the same 10w-30/5w-30 chart.

mike-tracy wrote:
When it comes to power on these things, consider your budget. A 250whp stock block ej22t is quite a fun car, and from where you're at, it'll cost under a grand to get there. Now you're talking about getting DOHC heads. How much are those? How much for a manifold? All new gaskets? New DOHC timing belt and equipment? Machine work? Valve job? You could easily spend a grand on the heads and hardware needed to support them, plus another grand on the tune, turbo and anything else you need.

So you spend a grand from where you're at now and get a ~250whp ej22t, or you spend 2 grand and get a dohc engine and get 10-30 more WHP but less torque. That's why I mentioned the 22t as an option. Now, if you are going to go full standalone down the road (hardware, installation and a tune will be another couple grand when you're done), then the dohc setup is the way to go. Add a bigger turbo and injectors on top of that and you've spend another grand or two there too. Now you have a 25 year old car with more money in it than a WRX, or 4th gen Legacy GT (at least where i live. I keep seeing them in the 5-6k range on craigslist).

Not trying to discourage you or be a dick. But the dohc path is an expensive one with a very small gain in performance until you get a standalone. Then it gets even more expensive, very quickly.

If you're still looking for DOHC turbo heads after all that, then the ej20k STI or ej20r heads are the best. Yes, the robtune adjusts for cams, but there are compromises. Worse idle, fuel economy, drivability suffers a tad until in boost.
Just about everywhere I read about 22T performance the DOHC thing is recomended, thats why I'm looking into it, I think I will just do delta cam's on the stock heads tho, seems like the best option, vs making a whole hybrid motor.

I think I'm going to get a 3" Invidia DP and have a shop shorten in and put the stock O2 in the right spot.

So are all 550 Robtunes the same? I have a lead on a used one with ECU for a good deal, and my car should be running tip top with the 02 fixed. How much PSI is the stock VF11 good for? Like would it be a good idea to run the VF11 on a 550 Robtune with TMIC at like 16 PSI? And what would be the next best turbo upgrade? I see a lot of TD05's? Want something just big enough, no sense in anything more.


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 Post subject: Re: Best manifold/up pipe/down pipe
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2016 10:38 pm 
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Those performance parts (the cams and DP) sound good to me. Regarding the other questions,

For the rest of your questions, please contact rob directly, rob@robtune.com. and give him some time to respond. In the mean time, please use the google custom search up top. If you legitimately cannot find the answers, I will be glad to help point you the right way. I know you can easily find info on the vf11 by searching "vf11 max psi" and "good turbo upgrade vf11" or even "robtune with a vf11"

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 Post subject: Re: Best manifold/up pipe/down pipe
PostPosted: Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:31 am 
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Will any WRX DP bolt to the turbo fine? My DP has just a round hole with everything else flat and blocked off by the flange its not bell mouth or divorced just one round pipe, the rest is blocked off.


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