Zeitronix Wideband O2 install

Post by **Legacy777** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:14 am

Finally got it installed last night. I was struggling with how to route the wire in the passenger cabin. There was no good place to drill a hole without removing a bunch of shit, and I've packed all the other openings with stuff. I ended up pulling down the fender liner, found a plastic plug, and thought BINGO. So I drilled a hole in that, used a rubber grommet and fed the wire through that. It worked beautifully!!!

I did a few runs, and watching things, the logging software works pretty well and is easy to read. I tapped into the Tachometer output signal from the ECU to the TCU for RPM signal. It'd be nice to get boost on the thing too. However if I ever get the PP to work, I should be able to have that too.

here's pics
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... zeitronix/

Here's a run I did and logged.
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... wblog1.xls

One last thing. I emailed Zeitronix and asked for the equation for the WB. I'm going to log the voltages with my perfect power, and when I dump everything to Excel, I can use the equation, and convert the voltages to AFR's.

Here's the equation:
AFR = -0.3481V^6 + 3.4583V ^5 -12.813V^4 +22.269V^3-18.043V^2 + 7.4273V + 8.8711

Here's an excel spreadsheet that compares the look up data provided with the unit, and the equation. Once you get above a certain point the equation get's funky and turns negative. The display of the Zeitronix logger doesn't go above 21 AFR, so I just stopped at that spot.
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com:8 ... _graph.xls

rallysam · Post by **rallysam** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:40 am

Cool!

Good gracious, that's quite an install for getting the cabling through the firewall. I just routed the cables through a pre-existing hole in the firewall right behind the clutch pedal.

I really like where you put the box itself - right next to your ECU. I don't know why I didn't do that... I put it way over in the glovebox.

No display?

I guess I should take pics of my whole install and post them up here.

I am still working on all of the accessory wiring. All I have hooked up is the O2 sensor, the display, and the narrowband output into the ECU. No RPM yet, no TPS yet. I have one of their boost sensors coming in the mail since my autometer gauge sucks. I tried to hook up my EGT today, but my thermocouple cable was WAY too big for the crimps Zeitronix provides.

I fixed the whirring sound I was getting by powering the Zeitronix off the cigarette lighter circuit instead of the radio power circuit (dummy!)

What do you think I should hook the User input up to? MAF?

Post by **Legacy777** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:46 am

I would've just used the rubber boot where the cable clutch goes through, but I've already got my headlight leveling wiring and all the turbo sensor wires going through it. I've seriously run out of pre-existing holes in the firewall....haha.

It really wasn't that bad installing it. I just removed the fender liner 4 bolts, the windshield washer tank 2 bolts, and removed the trim pieces inside. It really went quite smooth.

Nope, no display. I opted not to get one. Were you the one saying the display is pretty bright?

Yeah, MAF would probably be what you want to hook up to the user input. I'm not sure what it'll really tell you though. I totally spaced and didn't hook anything up to the user input. I'll probably hook up the stock MAP sensor to it, that way I'll have a boost reading too.

rallysam · Post by **rallysam** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 4:04 am

Yeah, I was the one saying the display is kinda bright. It's kind of a stupid complaint, since it is a beautiful display. The display is just so good that it overshadows our crappy dash lighting... and our crappy headlights for that matter. Luckily it's white letters on black background - not vice versa.

It would only really be a problem if you mounted it right in your field of view, and when you hit one of those country roads when you want to turn down your dash lights to see better. The Zeitronix would just be blazing.

free5ty1e · Post by **free5ty1e** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 3:00 pm

Those connectors that come with the Zeitronix - are those straight in-line/passthru connectors for the ECU? It looks like exactly the plug-and-play harness I want to have available for the LegacEBC. Gotta find their connector source....

rallysam · Post by **rallysam** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:11 pm

free5ty1e wrote:Those connectors that come with the Zeitronix - are those straight in-line/passthru connectors for the ECU? It looks like exactly the plug-and-play harness I want to have available for the LegacEBC. Gotta find their connector source....

Ha! I wish. Josh must have cooked up that harness himself. I know that some people get the connectors by tearing them off a junkyard ECU.

Picture 6386 and 6387 show what comes with the Zeitronix. Mine didn't come with vitamins, napkins, or an egg timer though, so I'm a little jealous that Josh's did. You can also pay a little more and get accessories like a display/readout, boost sensor, or EGT probe.

Picture 6396 and 6397 is the harness I think you're talking about. Damn that's nice!

Post by **Legacy777** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:42 pm

I bought that harness from Vikash.

haha...yeah Sam I had to pay extra for the vitamins, napkins & egg timer

free5ty1e · Post by **free5ty1e** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:59 am

Oh - nevermind, then, that's exactly my plan

So I can't depend on the vitamins or egg timer coming with the sensor?

rallysam · Post by **rallysam** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 8:00 pm

L777 - What circuit did you pull power from to run the Zeitronix?

rallysam · Post by **rallysam** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 12:08 am

Here's one of my runs:

Post by **Legacy777** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:06 am

I just tapped into the ECU's power supply since I had the jumper harness.

Is the x-axis on your graph time? Or something else.

rallysam · Post by **rallysam** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:14 am

Yeah, it's time... ish. It's sample numbers.

Post by **Legacy777** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:17 am

Looking at your graph, you have something a little weird going on. As you floor it, the a/f ratio jumps up to about 21 or so, comes down, goes up slightly, an then slowly declines as rpms increase (minus a slight bump).

I'm wondering if that's just a slightly mix up, or if that same spike is repeatable.

rallysam · Post by **rallysam** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 3:37 am

Yeah, I see what you're talking about. I would've just assumed that was the normal behavior of the control system unless you're saying that you never get that. I'll record some more runs later this week and we'll see if there's more of that.

In case you didn't notice, the first period of full throttle is 1st gear, the next period is 2nd gear. I rescaled the TPS to be 0-5 so it would show on the same graph. RPM and EGT aren't working properly so I didn't show them. I haven't hooked up USER yet.

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 3:27 am

Do a 3rd gear pull. Do it from lower rpms, before full boost, and see what the AFR's do as the engine/EM transitions from vacuum/partial boost to full boost.

rallysam · Post by **rallysam** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:06 am

More data, as requested. Now with more boost and an RPM input. Still can't get the EGT working right.

The X-axis is still time/samples (NOT rpm). The green line shows RPM.

5th Gear from painfully low RPMs so you can watch the spool up:

More typical WOT run: 3rd Gear across the entire tach (3k-6k)

And two brief 5th gear pulls in a row at around 3k

Some of the "overshoot" you saw in the AFR control system is still there.

Also, it's weird how "noisy" the pressure sensor is once the RPMs start getting up. My MAP sensor does the same thing. Could that be real pressure variations?

Post by **Legacy777** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:15 am

Yeah....that initial overshoot is there.....probably due to how the ECU is setup.

As for the pressure sensor....not sure....I still need to hook mine up to the user input.

But from some of the pp runs I've done....it was a little "noisy" but didn't think it was that bad.

rallysam · Post by **rallysam** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:40 am

I don't know if the pressure noise is normal, but it explains why I was getting fuel cut even at like 11psi or so... even at 11psi the pressure was jumping up to fuel cut territory from time to time. Not really a problem now that I have an FCD....... but weird!

There are some quirks in my data that I'm going to track down, but
overall things look really good. I'm at 13psi (rolling off at high RPM) on the stock turbo and fuel system... and the life signs look good. Not really asking for much else in the near future.

skid542 · Post by **skid542** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 3:15 am

Bringing an old thread back from the dead as I'm starting to put my ducks in a row to start building my SS and am starting to research into a good wideband unit that I can use to do some tuning with after exhaust, turbo, meth inject, etc....

Have you all been pretty happy with this unit as you've used it more and more?

To log you have to have it hooked up to your laptop during the pulls correct? It doesn't have a memory?

Is the software pretty easy to use? No outstanding complaints with the system after time?

Any other comments?

boro · Post by **boro** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:51 am

the erratic boost whlile odd and unnerving, is unfortunately familiar to me. I have bad compression on th front two cylanders. 135psi or so.
I am convinced the cause of mine is a combination of bad rings (221k miles) and a leaky valve. I am just ondeing if I would se the same kind of informaion in a datalog, and if that could lead to a possible cause for you? Just my .2 cents

rallysam · Post by **rallysam** » Thu Nov 08, 2007 11:51 am

skid542 wrote:Bringing an old thread back from the dead as I'm starting to put my ducks in a row to start building my SS and am starting to research into a good wideband unit that I can use to do some tuning with after exhaust, turbo, meth inject, etc....

Have you all been pretty happy with this unit as you've used it more and more?

To log you have to have it hooked up to your laptop during the pulls correct? It doesn't have a memory?

Is the software pretty easy to use? No outstanding complaints with the system after time?

Any other comments?

Yeah I was definitely happy. I never got the RPM pickup or temperature working very well, but I think that was due to my crappy wiring and crimping jobs. Part of the thing was that I was using another company's EGT so I had to re-do the connector and never managed to do it properly.

Yeah, IIRC, you have to have it hooked up to a laptop as you go. The box just pings data out at regular intervals over the serial port.

It was fairly easy and worked well and gave good data.

For graphing the data you log, it'll help if you are comfortable with Microsoft Excel or some program.

Post by **Legacy777** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 7:00 pm

Yeah I've been happy with mine.

Grayguy · Post by **Grayguy** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:00 am

Dragging up an ancient topic for a 2nd time...

so you can send the signal to the ECU still so that it doesn't know you took the narrowband out?

I have a zeitronics w/ display out of my 98' that I'm going to be putting in my SS here soon hopefully. So I assume I'd just find the wire that goes into the ECU for the narrow band and then cut that and hood the zeitronics up to that then?

Grayguy · Post by **Grayguy** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 4:26 am

well, I'm an idiot. I don't know why I didn't just go read the manual on their site. Looks like as soon as I take all the stuff out/off of my 98' and find the pinouts for the ecu, I can install it. Thanks for a nice write up!

beatersubi · Post by **beatersubi** » Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:17 am

As long as the controller has a narrowband output it'll work. Most of them have user-configurable output(s). The stock ecu expects to see a ~.1-.9v signal from the o2 sensor. I don't know for sure what it'll do, but I'm pretty sure it won't like a wideband 0-5v signal.
I've also heard that some ecus don't like the emulated narrowband signal from the wideband controller, and the users have had better luck retaining the stock narrowband sensor for the ecu.

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Zeitronix Wideband O2 install

Zeitronix Wideband O2 install