How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Heads, valves, pistons, rods, crankshaft, etc...

Moderators: Helpinators, Moderators

Mattheww044
Fourth Gear
Posts: 2045
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:17 am
Location: Spokane, WA

Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by Mattheww044 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 12:31 am

no, we are going to be taking Jordans car, and splitting gas. I would take it, but Jordan is having his car looked at at PIA to figure out what is going on with it. Those seals should be here in the next day or two. So do I need to unhook my battery to "reset" the ECU while putting these in?

Mattheww044
Fourth Gear
Posts: 2045
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:17 am
Location: Spokane, WA

Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by Mattheww044 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:39 am

OK guys, got my damn injectors in! It wasn't too bad. I thought it would go alot quicker than it did, but seeing as it was my first time, and I had to replace one of the o-rings connecting the rail to the hard fuel line on, it wasn't SOO Bad.

My main question is, while the ECU is "learning" the new fuel trims, what exactly would the car be doing? Because mine seems to have slower throttle response and isn't as smooth when getting on the throttle. Car runs great though other than those 2 things. I was guessing this is because it needs the learning period, is this correct?
Thanks to everyone who helped!! (Mainly Kleinkid and n2x4)

Legacy777
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 27548
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:37 am
Location: Houston, Tx
Contact:

Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by Legacy777 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:01 pm

What you described sounds like a result of over-enrichment. Which is likely what is happening since you have the larger injectors in there. Your fuel mileage will also probably be bad.
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm

Mattheww044
Fourth Gear
Posts: 2045
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:17 am
Location: Spokane, WA

Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by Mattheww044 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:25 pm

So it will probably be like that until I get EM? or should it "get better" as the ecu figures out what is going on?

Legacy777
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 27548
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:37 am
Location: Houston, Tx
Contact:

Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by Legacy777 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:48 pm

It may get a little better, but I don't have confidence the ECU will be able to fully trim the extra fuel.

Some people have said their car runs ok on the 440's, but I would venture to guess they still are running rich.
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm

Mattheww044
Fourth Gear
Posts: 2045
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 8:17 am
Location: Spokane, WA

Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by Mattheww044 » Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:28 am

damn, im wondering if I should have just got more 370's at least untill I could get EM. The car has hardly any low end power, pretty sure im getting horrible mpgs (haven't calulated yet), and the car is super hesitant when getting on it and WOT. Car drives amazingly though if you are just cruising

ericem
Fifth Gear
Posts: 3242
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:44 pm
Location: Toronto,ON Canada

Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by ericem » Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:33 am

Do I really really need to buy this spacer?

Image

I do not see how this spacer will effect the injector or the way it seals to the rail. Unless I am not understanding something?
1993 Subaru Legacy L AWD Wagon R.I.P
1994 Subaru Legacy SS R.I.P :(
2004 Nissan Titan LE 4X4
2007 Subaru Legacy GT :)

cj91legss
Fifth Gear
Posts: 6307
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:17 am
Location: Lakewood, Wa 98439
Contact:

Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by cj91legss » Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:13 pm

looks like it could possibly sit in the fuel rail too low?
91 L-TW Wagon with a full Swap -RIP
92 SS Prefaced, GD dash swapped, 22T/205 Hybrid 20 psi - BEAST!
93 SS Bone Stock Gone!
94 TW Bone Stock Gone!
91 SS 4EAT Sold!
98 LGT 4EAT
98 LGT Wagon 4EAT

kleinkid
Fourth Gear
Posts: 1208
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2003 3:39 am
Location: Oak Harbor, Washington

Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by kleinkid » Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:02 pm

Good question. I'm guessing that it places the injector in the bore at a certain point so the o-rings match up to their sealing surfaces. The spacers are on 440's inside my 22t rails, works for me, no issues.

kimokalihi
Fifth Gear
Posts: 8360
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:41 am
Location: Tenino, WA

Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by kimokalihi » Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:16 pm

Yeah that's probably what it is. Good eye!
98 Metro Hatch Daily Driver :)
91 SS EJ20G Engine/Tranny/Diff Swap Build Thread Here
"Your testes are close to your bottom but you still play with them all the time." Jeremy Clarkson

cj91legss
Fifth Gear
Posts: 6307
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:17 am
Location: Lakewood, Wa 98439
Contact:

Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by cj91legss » Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:50 pm

oddly tho, those injectors i got from you (kimo) had those spacers..... and i used them on my 20g/h fuel rails and they worked just fine..... maybe i wasn't supposed to....

oh well.
91 L-TW Wagon with a full Swap -RIP
92 SS Prefaced, GD dash swapped, 22T/205 Hybrid 20 psi - BEAST!
93 SS Bone Stock Gone!
94 TW Bone Stock Gone!
91 SS 4EAT Sold!
98 LGT 4EAT
98 LGT Wagon 4EAT

kimokalihi
Fifth Gear
Posts: 8360
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:41 am
Location: Tenino, WA

Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by kimokalihi » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:14 am

They should work in those rails because they're off an EJ20H motor.
98 Metro Hatch Daily Driver :)
91 SS EJ20G Engine/Tranny/Diff Swap Build Thread Here
"Your testes are close to your bottom but you still play with them all the time." Jeremy Clarkson

Aeryck
In Neutral
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:23 pm

Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by Aeryck » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:37 pm

I did this in my 94 22t recently, and, the mileage is close to the same, it has erratic idle and the startup is also erratic and troublesome. I was thinking the fuel pump could use an upgrade. I also do not believe the ECM will learn the new process, as I already have driven 2000 miles or so on them and there is no change. It runs perfectly cruising, these issues are at low rpms only which is why I am thinking delivery from the pump may be inadequate given the higger CC's. Any suggestions please?

BSOD2600
Fourth Gear
Posts: 1636
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:49 am
Location: Seattle, WA
Contact:

Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by BSOD2600 » Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:11 am

More likely it's running super rich. you have a wideband to verify? revscan/evoscan to look at the fuel trims?

'11 WRX Limited
'94 SS | 3" TBE, 07 TMIC, TD05H-16G, Revtronix Stage 2, Walbro -- Sold
'94 TW | R.I.P.

Aeryck
In Neutral
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:23 pm

Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by Aeryck » Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:54 am

I don't, it's, frankly, a bit greek to me.

wtdash
Fifth Gear
Posts: 2285
Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 4:09 pm
Location: N. ID

Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by wtdash » Mon Oct 04, 2010 3:19 am

Aeryck wrote:I don't, it's, frankly, a bit greek to me.
I would think the reverse, in that it would run crappy 'on boost' - not @ startup/idle.

Did you reset the ECU after upgrading the injectors? Usually leaving the Neg. battery cable off overnight is enough.

I would agree 2K miles should be enought to re-learn, but maybe not.

The fuel pump should be adequate, esp. @ lower RPM's. The stock fuel pump is roughly the same (or even bigger) as a WRX and they run 440's stock (albeit top-feeds).

No offense, but RU 100% sure they are installed correctly w/all the correct O-rings? Did you pull the rails to install, or just swap injectors?

GL,
TD
Turbo Subies:
'87 GL-10 Turbo 4WD Wagon (pre-Loyale) - SOLD
'90 BJ, EJ22T/DOHC and 5-speed swap - SOLD
'04 FXT, Forged internals, VF39, STI TMIC, Cobb AP- SOLD
'93 Legacy SS - 5-speed, SOLD :-(
'02 WRX GG-SOLD
'96 BD - turbo'd-SOLD

Aeryck
In Neutral
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:23 pm

Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by Aeryck » Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:09 am

none taken, I have a very good mechanic that did the swap. There are no signs of fuel leaking, and sometimes it starts poorly, but, not always. I have ordered a tested set of originals and am going back to them. I was told you really need a piggyback ECU from revtronix and some other upgrades I am unintered in. I just want it to run properly from startup to cool down and get the best mileage possible. I was forced into all of this when the turbo went, really it was the boost solenoid that went, and, upon inspection of the turbo found a crack int he exhaust housing. I ended up finding a place that would fit the JDM 2.0 turbo for me. The check engine was intermittent for a #47 so I used these injectors to cure the light.

ericem
Fifth Gear
Posts: 3242
Joined: Mon Oct 16, 2006 9:44 pm
Location: Toronto,ON Canada

Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by ericem » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:13 am

Anyone find another cheap source for 440's?
1993 Subaru Legacy L AWD Wagon R.I.P
1994 Subaru Legacy SS R.I.P :(
2004 Nissan Titan LE 4X4
2007 Subaru Legacy GT :)

kimokalihi
Fifth Gear
Posts: 8360
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:41 am
Location: Tenino, WA

Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by kimokalihi » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:23 am

lol I think I have a set of 440s $100.
98 Metro Hatch Daily Driver :)
91 SS EJ20G Engine/Tranny/Diff Swap Build Thread Here
"Your testes are close to your bottom but you still play with them all the time." Jeremy Clarkson

Aeryck
In Neutral
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:23 pm

Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by Aeryck » Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:25 am

Mine are just refurbished and tested at 480cc for $150.

BSOD2600
Fourth Gear
Posts: 1636
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:49 am
Location: Seattle, WA
Contact:

Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by BSOD2600 » Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:24 pm

ericem wrote:Anyone find another cheap source for 440's?
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=28628

'11 WRX Limited
'94 SS | 3" TBE, 07 TMIC, TD05H-16G, Revtronix Stage 2, Walbro -- Sold
'94 TW | R.I.P.

93legacylsleeper
Second Gear
Posts: 252
Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:22 pm
Location: Redwood Estates, Ca

Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by 93legacylsleeper » Sun Feb 06, 2011 1:18 am

So Im bringing this thread back to life for a question... If I have a TD04 header, UP, DP, 3 inch all the way back 06 intercooler and a Hallman set to 12 PSI would these 440's be a worth while upgrade? Would I notice a power gain or just end up with funky idle and bad millage?

wtdash
Fifth Gear
Posts: 2285
Joined: Fri May 04, 2007 4:09 pm
Location: N. ID

Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by wtdash » Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:10 am

^ You're due for a Wideband and gauge....then you'll know.

And as this is a 'How To', please start a new thread if your Search wasn't informative.

Edit: Page 3 of this thread has some info, too.

TD
Last edited by wtdash on Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Turbo Subies:
'87 GL-10 Turbo 4WD Wagon (pre-Loyale) - SOLD
'90 BJ, EJ22T/DOHC and 5-speed swap - SOLD
'04 FXT, Forged internals, VF39, STI TMIC, Cobb AP- SOLD
'93 Legacy SS - 5-speed, SOLD :-(
'02 WRX GG-SOLD
'96 BD - turbo'd-SOLD

kleinkid
Fourth Gear
Posts: 1208
Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2003 3:39 am
Location: Oak Harbor, Washington

Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by kleinkid » Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:16 am

All respect due to WTDASH, I will answer your question, you can put the injectors in and report in a new thread.

You should idle OK, will run rich across the board. You'll notice soot build-up in your exhaust as one symptom. You will need a tune. If your EM does not support this, get somethiing that does, or leave stock injectors in.

BSOD2600
Fourth Gear
Posts: 1636
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:49 am
Location: Seattle, WA
Contact:

Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by BSOD2600 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:32 am

I agree, should be a new thread... but to answer you question, all you need to do is data log (EvoScan or RevScan software + usb cable) your injector IDC for peak boost in 3rd and 4th gear over the entire rpm range. If you're getting close to ~90% IDC, then time for larger injectors. The TD04 has more potential to increase the boost up, once you get a FCD.

'11 WRX Limited
'94 SS | 3" TBE, 07 TMIC, TD05H-16G, Revtronix Stage 2, Walbro -- Sold
'94 TW | R.I.P.

Post Reply