How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

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Mattheww044
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Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by Mattheww044 »

no, we are going to be taking Jordans car, and splitting gas. I would take it, but Jordan is having his car looked at at PIA to figure out what is going on with it. Those seals should be here in the next day or two. So do I need to unhook my battery to "reset" the ECU while putting these in?

Mattheww044
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Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by Mattheww044 »

OK guys, got my damn injectors in! It wasn't too bad. I thought it would go alot quicker than it did, but seeing as it was my first time, and I had to replace one of the o-rings connecting the rail to the hard fuel line on, it wasn't SOO Bad.

My main question is, while the ECU is "learning" the new fuel trims, what exactly would the car be doing? Because mine seems to have slower throttle response and isn't as smooth when getting on the throttle. Car runs great though other than those 2 things. I was guessing this is because it needs the learning period, is this correct?
Thanks to everyone who helped!! (Mainly Kleinkid and n2x4)

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Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by Legacy777 »

What you described sounds like a result of over-enrichment. Which is likely what is happening since you have the larger injectors in there. Your fuel mileage will also probably be bad.
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Mattheww044
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Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by Mattheww044 »

So it will probably be like that until I get EM? or should it "get better" as the ecu figures out what is going on?

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Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by Legacy777 »

It may get a little better, but I don't have confidence the ECU will be able to fully trim the extra fuel.

Some people have said their car runs ok on the 440's, but I would venture to guess they still are running rich.
Josh

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2020 Outback Limted XT

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Mattheww044
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Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by Mattheww044 »

damn, im wondering if I should have just got more 370's at least untill I could get EM. The car has hardly any low end power, pretty sure im getting horrible mpgs (haven't calulated yet), and the car is super hesitant when getting on it and WOT. Car drives amazingly though if you are just cruising

ericem
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Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by ericem »

Do I really really need to buy this spacer?

Image

I do not see how this spacer will effect the injector or the way it seals to the rail. Unless I am not understanding something?
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Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by cj91legss »

looks like it could possibly sit in the fuel rail too low?
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kleinkid
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Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by kleinkid »

Good question. I'm guessing that it places the injector in the bore at a certain point so the o-rings match up to their sealing surfaces. The spacers are on 440's inside my 22t rails, works for me, no issues.

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Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by kimokalihi »

Yeah that's probably what it is. Good eye!
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Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by cj91legss »

oddly tho, those injectors i got from you (kimo) had those spacers..... and i used them on my 20g/h fuel rails and they worked just fine..... maybe i wasn't supposed to....

oh well.
91 L-TW Wagon with a full Swap -RIP
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93 SS Bone Stock Gone!
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Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by kimokalihi »

They should work in those rails because they're off an EJ20H motor.
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Aeryck
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Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by Aeryck »

I did this in my 94 22t recently, and, the mileage is close to the same, it has erratic idle and the startup is also erratic and troublesome. I was thinking the fuel pump could use an upgrade. I also do not believe the ECM will learn the new process, as I already have driven 2000 miles or so on them and there is no change. It runs perfectly cruising, these issues are at low rpms only which is why I am thinking delivery from the pump may be inadequate given the higger CC's. Any suggestions please?

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Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by BSOD2600 »

More likely it's running super rich. you have a wideband to verify? revscan/evoscan to look at the fuel trims?

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Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by Aeryck »

I don't, it's, frankly, a bit greek to me.

wtdash
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Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by wtdash »

Aeryck wrote:I don't, it's, frankly, a bit greek to me.
I would think the reverse, in that it would run crappy 'on boost' - not @ startup/idle.

Did you reset the ECU after upgrading the injectors? Usually leaving the Neg. battery cable off overnight is enough.

I would agree 2K miles should be enought to re-learn, but maybe not.

The fuel pump should be adequate, esp. @ lower RPM's. The stock fuel pump is roughly the same (or even bigger) as a WRX and they run 440's stock (albeit top-feeds).

No offense, but RU 100% sure they are installed correctly w/all the correct O-rings? Did you pull the rails to install, or just swap injectors?

GL,
TD
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Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by Aeryck »

none taken, I have a very good mechanic that did the swap. There are no signs of fuel leaking, and sometimes it starts poorly, but, not always. I have ordered a tested set of originals and am going back to them. I was told you really need a piggyback ECU from revtronix and some other upgrades I am unintered in. I just want it to run properly from startup to cool down and get the best mileage possible. I was forced into all of this when the turbo went, really it was the boost solenoid that went, and, upon inspection of the turbo found a crack int he exhaust housing. I ended up finding a place that would fit the JDM 2.0 turbo for me. The check engine was intermittent for a #47 so I used these injectors to cure the light.

ericem
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Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by ericem »

Anyone find another cheap source for 440's?
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kimokalihi
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Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by kimokalihi »

lol I think I have a set of 440s $100.
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Aeryck
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Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by Aeryck »

Mine are just refurbished and tested at 480cc for $150.

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Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by BSOD2600 »

ericem wrote:Anyone find another cheap source for 440's?
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=28628

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93legacylsleeper
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Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by 93legacylsleeper »

So Im bringing this thread back to life for a question... If I have a TD04 header, UP, DP, 3 inch all the way back 06 intercooler and a Hallman set to 12 PSI would these 440's be a worth while upgrade? Would I notice a power gain or just end up with funky idle and bad millage?

wtdash
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Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by wtdash »

^ You're due for a Wideband and gauge....then you'll know.

And as this is a 'How To', please start a new thread if your Search wasn't informative.

Edit: Page 3 of this thread has some info, too.

TD
Last edited by wtdash on Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Turbo Subies:
'87 GL-10 Turbo 4WD Wagon (pre-Loyale) - SOLD
'90 BJ, EJ22T/DOHC and 5-speed swap - SOLD
'04 FXT, Forged internals, VF39, STI TMIC, Cobb AP- SOLD
'93 Legacy SS - 5-speed, SOLD :-(
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'96 BD - turbo'd-SOLD

kleinkid
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Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by kleinkid »

All respect due to WTDASH, I will answer your question, you can put the injectors in and report in a new thread.

You should idle OK, will run rich across the board. You'll notice soot build-up in your exhaust as one symptom. You will need a tune. If your EM does not support this, get somethiing that does, or leave stock injectors in.

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Re: How To: 440cc Injectors in Legacy Turbo Rails

Post by BSOD2600 »

I agree, should be a new thread... but to answer you question, all you need to do is data log (EvoScan or RevScan software + usb cable) your injector IDC for peak boost in 3rd and 4th gear over the entire rpm range. If you're getting close to ~90% IDC, then time for larger injectors. The TD04 has more potential to increase the boost up, once you get a FCD.

'11 WRX Limited
'94 SS | 3" TBE, 07 TMIC, TD05H-16G, Revtronix Stage 2, Walbro -- Sold
'94 TW | R.I.P.

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