97 EJ20G Will this work in my 91 SS?

Heads, valves, pistons, rods, crankshaft, etc...

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97 EJ20G Will this work in my 91 SS?

Post by kimokalihi » Fri May 15, 2009 5:24 am

There's a complete Ej20G from a 97 Subaru Impreza GF8 on ebay complete with 5MT, ECU, Harness, Turbo, front Axles, intercooler.

What would I have to do to get this to work in my 91SS?

Maybe I could buy this, remove my tranny, drop this one in and sell my tranny and two motors instead of rebuilding one?
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Post by kimokalihi » Fri May 15, 2009 5:50 am

Also, which turbo comes on this motor?
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Post by Fkyx » Fri May 15, 2009 6:04 am

I believe the GF8 was built with a TD04 from the factory. But I'm not entirely sure.
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Post by PhyrraM » Fri May 15, 2009 6:05 am

Link?

It will work, but if it's really a '97 it will have the under-the-manifold turbo intake (treat as EJ20K). That will require a bit more prep work to install than a traditional 90 degree turbo inlet EJ20G.

Main advantages?....You can use USDM WRX/STI turbos (and upgraded ones) without silly silicon elbows. And it is already wasted spark so your Legacy harness will suit it better.

Main disadvantages?

I haven't fully researched it, but I believe that the TPS is slightly different electrically. Might have to re-pin or play with the connectors.

The throttle cable is also on the opposite side that we are used to.

You would need to use the EJ20K air filter housing and intake, so make sure the swap comes with them.

The Legacy power steering pump will not work as-is, and most swaps come with cut P/S lines. The Legacy pump can be modded or you can have a shop fix the EJ20K lines to work with the Legacy rack.

Other than those details, it should swap over basically the same as a "true" EJ20G. Use your Legacy/EJ20G wiring and ECU. Sell the EJ20K wiring/ECU to cover some costs.
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Post by kimokalihi » Fri May 15, 2009 6:14 am

ebay link

So I can actually use the stock ECU in my car?
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Post by PhyrraM » Fri May 15, 2009 6:23 am

That is an EJ20K. Subaru calls it a "G" because it's in a wagon with an older style heads. But treat it like a "K".

You can use the stock ECU and it should run as well as those of us that are using the stock ECU to run "true" EJ20Gs.

If I was to do that swap, I would use the stock harness including putting the EJ22T engine/intake manifold harness on the EJ20K. I would use the EJ22T cam/crank/knock sensors. I would do whatever minor mods to make the TPS work. After it's running on the stock EJ22T ECU, I would then get a Revtronix chip for either an EJ20G (if it's ready) or whatever "stage" they have that uses the JECS AFM and 440cc/min injectors. As soon as it's available, I would upgrade to thier user tunable chip.
'93 Winestone SS Auto, '91 Pearl White SS.
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Post by kimokalihi » Fri May 15, 2009 6:27 am

Interesting, where do I find the information on modding the TPS?
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Post by PhyrraM » Fri May 15, 2009 6:31 am

Another idea I just thought of.

If your more comfortable staying with something tried and true, you could trade the complete EJ20K intake manifold, turbo and intercooler for the EJ20G equivalents. Then there would be virtually no extra work to do. You could follow the many EJ20g write-ups.





Not to detract from the thread, but I would make that trade. I'm sure others would also.
'93 Winestone SS Auto, '91 Pearl White SS.
'93 Pure White SS EJ20G slanty intercooled, SIDESWIPED! In stasis.
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2017 Pure Red BRZ Limited w/Performance pack

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Post by PhyrraM » Fri May 15, 2009 6:34 am

kimokalihi wrote:Interesting, where do I find the information on modding the TPS?
Not sure. I would have to look at the wiring diagrams. I just seem to remember reading that later TPS has a different connector and some read "in reverse" from the earlier ones. It's even possible a EJ22T TPS will bolt up. But without having something in-hand to experiment with, I can't say for sure.
'93 Winestone SS Auto, '91 Pearl White SS.
'93 Pure White SS EJ20G slanty intercooled, SIDESWIPED! In stasis.
'94 FWD and '95 AWD Laguna Blue SVXs.
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Post by kimokalihi » Fri May 15, 2009 6:34 am

I do have EJ20G heads and intake sitting in my garage.
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Post by PhyrraM » Fri May 15, 2009 6:52 am

Your heads are basically the same as what is on that motor. That's the main reason Subaru still called it an EJ20G.

It depends on what you want out of this motor. Do you want "everything"? Or are you the type to take things one step at a time? Can you handle a big project AND learn at the same time? Or would you prefer to take baby steps and work your way up?

If you can handle building a motor, and have the time to do so, then use what you already have.

If, however, you "need to get the car going" a complete swap like that is nice to do. All the parts are there and you will have very little "chasing down" to do in comparision.

My personal way of doing things is one step at a time. If you folllow my build log, you will see a slow progression. My car has never really "been apart". I generally don't touch the car until I KNOW I have everything I will need (and I still find something I missed). It has served me well to work this way, and I've never had a Monday that I couldn't drive it to work. But,the downside is that it's going to be 18 months that I waited (from project "start") to get the motor I really wanted. Give and take, I guess.

Does your EJ20G intake manifold have all the fuel, water, PCV, vaccuum, etc hoses? Do you have a 90 degree turbo yet? Does it have water and oil lines? Those would be a big indicator of how I would progress next. If you have more "collecting" to do, a swap like this looks mighty attractive (to somebody like me).
'93 Winestone SS Auto, '91 Pearl White SS.
'93 Pure White SS EJ20G slanty intercooled, SIDESWIPED! In stasis.
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Post by kimokalihi » Fri May 15, 2009 11:11 am

The reason I was thinking about getting this motor was because I was hoping it would drop right in and require minimum work and parts.

I have the EJ20H motor that I was trying to sell to pay for new hoses, vacuum lines, timing belt, seals and gaskets for my EJ22T I just bought. I was taking the timing covers off today and was going to remove the timing belt and idlers and start getting it ready for the replacement parts when I noticed the wiring harness has been eaten away under the intake manifold. There's also a hose that's been eaten away by a mouse or something. This means I'll have to remove the intake manifold and put the other 91 harness I have on it and that means I'll also have to get new gaskets. I bought this motor thinking it would be ready to drop right in, but after having a close look at it, I can tell it needs some work.

Then I got to thinking maybe I'll just wait until I have money to tear it all down and have it rebuilt and have the EJ20G heads rebuilt and put them on the EJ22T block with the EJ20G manifold.

Why waste money on EJ22T parts when eventually I plan to do the DOHC heads anyways, right? In which case I'll need to buy a DOHC timing belt and head gaskets, etc.

Then I saw the EJ20G on ebay and thought, hey maybe I could take a loan out of my 401K interest free and buy the EJ20G, drop it in and be done with it for a while.

The EJ20G manifold has fuel lines, no injectors, it's missing hoses, it's got the water lines I think.


Image
Image


I have a TD04 that's like new. Pretty sure it's got oil and coolant lines. I've also got the Samco intercooler hose kit with the Ypipe, recirc pipe and the throttle body pipe.

I'd like to have the under the intake manifold setup, if possible.
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Post by kimokalihi » Fri May 15, 2009 11:12 am

I don't have the best pictures of that EJ20G manifold, it's behind the EJ20H manifold in the first picture.
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Post by SLODRIVE » Fri May 15, 2009 4:11 pm

I think that EJ20K motor would make for a great swap. It has the same P/S pump as the EJ20H in my car, and it already has a proper under-manifold turbo inlet. This would be easier than the EH20H swap I did, in fact, because I had to make a coil bracket and source the turbo inlet tube from China. Most everything else you would have to do is covered in my build thread, including adapting the EJ22T throttle body/TPS and making the linkage work.

I say get it!
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Post by Matt Monson » Fri May 15, 2009 4:54 pm

Going to the 93-96 Ej20G manifold is going backwards. You lose the under inlet manifold and straight in turbo. You lose the most efficient non-STi intercooler Subaru ever put on a stock car. You lose a lot.

The power steering pump is a non-issue. The lines on that one are not cut AND you get the relatively rare cooler with it. Look closely at the pictures. That's a trick set up.

As was mentioned, use your EJ22T wiring harness and crank and cam sensors. You can probably use your TB with TPS on it. If not, others have modified the late TPS to work on the early cars. It's really all pretty straightforward.

Lastly, the TD04 on that engine is bigger and better than the trim on our USDM cars. Look at my old swap thread. I put out 240chp at 12psi with that turbo on my Ej20G swap. It's a good little turbo with excellent spool. Don't downgrade the car with a US Td04...
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Post by kimokalihi » Sat May 16, 2009 12:09 am

It's very tempting. I got an email back from these guys saying they are waiving residential fees for shipping so there's no difference whether you ship to residential or busniess.

Shipping to my house will be $451 bringing the total to $1,726.

Do you think this is the best engine choice for this much money?

Does anyone know of a Japanese engine importer around Western washington or Portland, Oregon area that I may be able to save on shipping?
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Post by kimokalihi » Tue May 19, 2009 12:24 am

Anybody know what gear ratio the diff is on this transmission? I can't remember the ratio on my 91 ss but It hink it's a VLSD 3.90.

Is this correct?
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Post by PhyrraM » Tue May 19, 2009 12:32 am

I'm not sure, maybe Matt can help. But, I'm almost certain it's not going to be 3.9:1. Subaru used 4.11 and 4.44 on most of the JDM stuff.
'93 Winestone SS Auto, '91 Pearl White SS.
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Post by Legacy777 » Tue May 19, 2009 2:12 am

kimokalihi wrote:Anybody know what gear ratio the diff is on this transmission? I can't remember the ratio on my 91 ss but It hink it's a VLSD 3.90.

Is this correct?
You are correct. All US 91-94 turbo legacies had a 3.9 to 1 final drive ratio. The 91 MY was the only year to get the rear VLSD.

More info
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=27119
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Post by Matt Monson » Tue May 19, 2009 2:44 am

PhyrraM wrote:I'm not sure, maybe Matt can help. But, I'm almost certain it's not going to be 3.9:1. Subaru used 4.11 and 4.44 on most of the JDM stuff.
It's the same as the standard ratios on the 93-96 Ej20G powered sedans:

3.454
2.062
1.448
1.088
0.825
4.111

BTW, that swap does not include the rear LSD. Just the tranny.
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Post by kimokalihi » Tue May 19, 2009 3:10 am

So I'll lose my LSD rear diff using this tranny. Bummer.

Is there a matching LSD for this tranny on another car?
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Post by asc_up » Tue May 19, 2009 6:23 am

Matt Monson wrote:Going to the 93-96 Ej20G manifold is going backwards. You lose the under inlet manifold and straight in turbo. You lose the most efficient non-STi intercooler Subaru ever put on a stock car. You lose a lot.
What intercooler is that? Obviously it's the "EJ20K TMIC," but is that the one that looks like the 02-05 WRX one?
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Post by Matt Monson » Tue May 19, 2009 1:30 pm

kimokalihi wrote:So I'll lose my LSD rear diff using this tranny. Bummer.

Is there a matching LSD for this tranny on another car?
Sure, pretty much any early WRX (93-96) as well as 2000-2001 2.5RS. And that's just a start. There were many cars with 4.11 LSD's. Expect to pay $150-250 for the diff plus maybe another $100 for the axles. Your axles won't work with it if it's a USDM 4.11. If it's an older JDM 4.11 you can use your axles. It all depends on the year of the LSD you acquire.
Last edited by Matt Monson on Tue May 19, 2009 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1974 Porsche 914 Cam Am Limted Edition AKA the Bumble Bee
1973 Porsche 914 2.0 l -Suby swap pending
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Suby Hai!

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Post by Matt Monson » Tue May 19, 2009 1:31 pm

asc_up wrote: What intercooler is that? Obviously it's the "EJ20K TMIC," but is that the one that looks like the 02-05 WRX one?
It's bigger and and cools better than the 02-05 USDM one.
1974 Porsche 914 Cam Am Limted Edition AKA the Bumble Bee
1973 Porsche 914 2.0 l -Suby swap pending
1968 Porsche 911t survivor 47k original miles
2000 2.5RS daily driver.
1999 2.5RS w/ 50+ extra whp
Suby Hai!

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Post by BXSS » Tue May 19, 2009 3:16 pm

Funny I had one of these swaps & the TMIC looked smaller than a 02-05 WRX.
The TMIC looks like a EJ20R TMIC with a single turbo Y pipe.

A 02-05 WRX Y fits on both of the above TMICs (97-98 EJ20R, EJ20K/Gs)
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