Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Heads, valves, pistons, rods, crankshaft, etc...

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cj91legss
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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Post by cj91legss »

It was to me too, I did that swap in my 1st gen. I went balls to the wall on it too. Dash, harness, ecu, and hybrid motor.

I literally took a whole wrx harness, bumper to bumper, and crammed it in my legacy.

It's hard but doable, I spaced it out over about a year and a half, giving myself time to walk away from it for a few weeks if I got pissed.

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91 L-TW Wagon with a full Swap -RIP
92 SS Prefaced, GD dash swapped, 22T/205 Hybrid 20 psi - BEAST!
93 SS Bone Stock Gone!
94 TW Bone Stock Gone!
91 SS 4EAT Sold!
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janas19
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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Post by janas19 »

cj91legss wrote: It's hard but doable, I spaced it out over about a year and a half, giving myself time to walk away from it for a few weeks if I got pissed.
Hmmm. Yep, that's good advice. I'll keep my options open, thanks man.
Alphius
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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Post by Alphius »

Check out this thread I did on a WRX harness merge in a '99 Legacy GT sedan. It was a fun build, I much prefer the second gen over the first. I sold it a couple months ago in favor of a 4th gen GT 5MT wagon, though it was a hard decision to make.

http://sl-i.net/FORUM/showthread.php?18 ... speed-swap

Honestly, it sounds like you should buy a third generation 00-04 Legacy GT and call it good. It'll have the same power as a stock EJ22t, and they're much nicer cars than the older ones. Still reasonably reliable and quite easy to find at a decent price.
janas19
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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Post by janas19 »

$300 for a complete EJ205 longblock? Holy smokes, that was a deal. I've been looking for engines my area. So far, I found one guy selling an EJ205 shortblock with a bent #3 sparkplug for $300, and it needs a rebuild.

Sick build btw, Alphius.
Legacy777
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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Post by Legacy777 »

As a general rule of thumb it will cost you twice as much and take twice as long to do a project like this. The less the scope the less likely you are to go over your original plans which I why I'd encourage you to look at newer options with less work, and easier access to parts and support.
Josh

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1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
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janas19
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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Post by janas19 »

Let me back up a second with some newer information. I want to turbocharge because it has the best possible combination of power, daily driveability, and fuel efficiency to boot. I've looked to a hybrid high compression NA build and it seems: equally expensive, less power, less fuel efficient, higher powerband, more RPMs.

EJ22E with the J22T SOHC running 6 PSi boost still looks the most appealing for me. I know turbo and I know my 940 with B230FT running 6 PSi is something I do like and enjoy. I do not know very much about hybrid high CR builds, powerband, or whether I would like.

That's what I know and think so far. You are welcome to try and change my mind if you believe I'm wrong.
mike-tracy
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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Post by mike-tracy »

I don't think you can compare a built and tuned factory car to a hodpodge of parts jammed together.
1992 Legacy SS 5mt, build in progress
Josh Colombo wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2002 10:23 am Wait....I'm confused now.
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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Post by janas19 »

It's just the EJ22T heads with dual port exhaust and turbo cams with the open deck 22E bottom end. Everything else (VF11, ECU, fuel system, pump) will be stock from the 22T. Fully assembled, it should be virtually identical to stock, excluding some minor details like squirters.
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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Post by mike-tracy »

What about the pistons?
1992 Legacy SS 5mt, build in progress
Josh Colombo wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2002 10:23 am Wait....I'm confused now.
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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Post by janas19 »

Crap. *smacks forehead*

I just realized WRX OEM pistons are for the 2.0. I was hoping to pick those up cheap, but they won't even work. I suppose OEM 22T pistons are a necessity. Really don't want to buy brand new though.

One problem is if reusing the EJ22E block and it needs a rebore, I have to find oversize pistons. More minor setbacks.

Using custom pistons is out of the question, it would put me above budget. I suppose NA pistons are possible, but then my CR would be 9.5:1. I'm not sure about running 6-8 PSI on NA pistons. If they're not forged it could be a problem
mike-tracy
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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Post by mike-tracy »

You totally can run Na pistons at low boost, car owners have been doing that for centuries now, ha ha. This brings you back to the engine management question. How well will a 22t ecu run a (going off your number) 9.5:1 engine? I don't know the answer, but I'll bet it would run better than using an NA ecu.
1992 Legacy SS 5mt, build in progress
Josh Colombo wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2002 10:23 am Wait....I'm confused now.
mike-tracy
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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Post by mike-tracy »

Someone mentioned the turbo ej22t pistons are a different size than the NA ones. That might be true, but the diameters are the same, since the bores are the same for both the 22t and 22e.

The turbo rods and cranks are the same as NA, or close enough to make no differene in these early engines. You could buy an NA block and purchase turbo pistons that match your Bore sizes, do new rings, bearings and a light cylinder hone. Compression would be right where the ECU expects it, and you could stock VF11 or wrx's td04 to around 12 psi no problem.
1992 Legacy SS 5mt, build in progress
Josh Colombo wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2002 10:23 am Wait....I'm confused now.
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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Post by janas19 »

You may be optimistic, and I may be pessimistic. I'm planning on stripping the 22E block and finding stressed rods, runout on the crank, out of round cylinders, and scuffed pistons. I really won't know how much of the old engine I can reuse, until I crack it open. If I get lucky, I might be able to use it all. Hoping for the best but planning on the worst.

After all, these EJ22E engines are very high mileage these days.

I don't really know how the ECU will handle a higher compression. I could hazard a poor guess, but it's not my area of expertise.
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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Post by Legacy777 »

The other thing to note and I found this out, you can disassemble and reassemble the motors with new parts and they'll work. However if you don't do all the checks and everything you normally do on an engine rebuild (honing, milling heads/deck, etc.) that can compromise longevity.

You mentioned OS pistons are out of your budget, what is your budget?

The comments you're receiving are from people that have been down the rabbit hole and back. I love being able to share my experiences and what I would do differently if I had to do it over again. There's no need to reinvent the wheel if someone's already figured it out :)
Josh

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1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Post by janas19 »

My budget is $1500. That number sounds pretty low, so I'll explain.

I have $1500 saved up, and after it's running I'll sell the 940 for another 1500. But my goal isn't spending $3000 just to get it running. My goal is to spend 1500 so it's drivable, then 1500 more on turbo parts, suspension, mods, and brakes.

This is my budget breakdown:

$500-600 for a drive-home, high mileage Legacy wagon that needs engine rebuild.

$400-500 for block, crank, rods, and pistons. The key is to buy parts from someone who knows a machinist and will sell me a pre-milled, tanked, and honed block so I'm not paying the general public price for the work. That's the hope, anyway.

$250 for bearings, seals, and oil pump.

$250 for 22T heads and HG

It's very tight and I don't have a lot of wiggle room.
Last edited by janas19 on Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Post by janas19 »

*sigh* I forgot the clutch.

Writing it all out makes me realize all the costs entailed for a full rebuild. Definitely questioning my plans at the moment. Still not sure, advice greatly appreciated.
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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Post by Legacy777 »

I would agree that is a very tight budget and yes when you put pen to paper so to speak there's always more. This is why I made the comment about it usually costing twice as much and taking twice as long as you originally planned. I'd say the only way to help minimize this delta is to really plan things out as best you can with as much detail as you can. However, in your situation you are making assumptions about the acquisition of used parts, the condition they're in, etc. So it's going to be much more difficult to really nail down those variables without knowing exactly what you have.

My suggestion, if time is less of a concern would be to set milestones in your build where you reevaluate your budget based on any recent acquisition of parts and discovery of their condition. If you need more money to accommodate things just push schedule out further until you have time to save the money.

Ultimately, if you're unable to extend the schedule or provide yourself some wiggle room I think you need to really consider whether you can tackle the project at this time with the funds at your disposal. I know people don't want to hear that, but it's better to regroup until you have the funds, time, etc. to be successful.
Josh

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1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Post by Legacy777 »

I'm moving this to the Engine forum since this discussion is more about the engine than specifically the turbocharger.
Josh

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1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
janas19
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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Post by janas19 »

That's great advice Josh. Thanks for all your help.

After all the feedback, I think I may just slap 22T heads on a stock 22E, run 5 PSI boost, and call it a day. A full rebuild appears excessive for my modest goals. If the engine blows, then it blows and I'll have to rebuild.

I'll have a higher compression ratio with NA pistons than turbo pistons, but it should be fine with proper thermal management. I need a proper intercooler, upgraded pump and injectors so it doesn't run lean, and timing control. That *should* be adequate protection against detonation with the stock ECU for engine management.

Think I got all my bases covered, unless you see something I'm missing.

Jamie
mike-tracy
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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Post by mike-tracy »

I don't understand going through the trouble of turbo if you're gonna run only 5 psi. Consider that a stock 22t makes 160hp at 8.9 psi. You bump compression a full point and a half, but run almost half the boost. What kind of power do you anticipate the engine making like that? Plus you'll have to run premium...
1992 Legacy SS 5mt, build in progress
Josh Colombo wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2002 10:23 am Wait....I'm confused now.
janas19
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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Post by janas19 »

I don't know all the math formulas, guessing 15-20HP when the turbo spools? 20 HP is pretty good for $500. That's like a 15% gain. Don't think any bolt-ons offer that performance.
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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Post by janas19 »

Well, actually the 5 PSI might be good for 15 HP. The upgraded injectors, pump, and intercooler charge density might be good for another 5-6 HP. Just a speculation.
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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Post by mike-tracy »

Are you saying 15+ HP over an NA ej22 engine? I don't know the answer either, but I have a feeling that you'll end up with less HP, or best case scenario, the same HP as a stock ej22t.
1992 Legacy SS 5mt, build in progress
Josh Colombo wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2002 10:23 am Wait....I'm confused now.
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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Post by janas19 »

Really good point, actually. If I can increase the boost to 8 PSI, retard the timing a few degrees to prevent knock, run good injectors/pump and a TMIC, then I have a ej22t top end on a lower mileage ej22 NA bottom end. Could even use a thicker head gasket when I do the head swap and lower compression ratio even more.

With that setup I could make close to 160HP, theoretically. Won't be close to an EJ205 but much easier and cheaper to do. And surely better than the 135HP of an NA Legacy.
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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Post by Alphius »

EJ25D swap is bolt-in and makes 165hp. $200 junkyard engine with $300 in headgaskets and resealing and it'll even be reasonably reliable.
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