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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:35 pm
by cj91legss
Yes the 25 is notorious for gasket failure. The 22 is a little more generous in that area. Fortunately the 22 uses a composite gasket which is much more forgiving. MLS gaskets are nice. You just need to have heads resurfaced at the bare minimum.

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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:37 pm
by wtdash
mike-tracy wrote:You know what, the ej25 engines make slightly more HP, and slightly less torque than a bone stock ej22t, all on regular. Perhaps that is more what you are looking for. You'll have to do a bit of rewiring with any engine you put in, but that's my vote.
yes....if you do the HG w/the new/est gasket you'll get another 100K of it AS LONG AS THE BOTTOM END HASN"T BEEN OVERHEATED....if it has you're on borrowed time...and rod bearings.

And I believe the torque is better from idle?

Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:37 pm
by mike-tracy
I actually think the research and planning stage is as much fun as the building part. :)

Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:39 pm
by cj91legss
mike-tracy wrote:I actually think the research and planning stage is as much fun as the building part. :)
I disagree. I'm still wrecking my brain on my engine. I'd rather just build and go lol.

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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:40 pm
by cj91legss
I'm very impatient though....

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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:41 pm
by janas19
wtdash wrote:
No...The '96-'98 Legacy, Impreza and Forester all share the same wiring and harness type - both 2.2 and 2.5 (I don't know about the '96+ EJ18), and they're all OBD2. It was literally plug-n-play. I'm using my stock '96 IM and wiring harness, too.
Oh wow I'm stupid. Yeah, because it's in the 1st gen body and harness.... Gosh, I should check what forum I'm in before posting! :oops:

Edit: Wiring harness from the 96 on the 22T heads, that has to be some modification? 96 is OBDII, 22T is OBDI? :|

I don't know, I've been reading Wikipedia articles for the last 4 hours, my brain is fried man

Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:42 pm
by mike-tracy
wtdash wrote:
mike-tracy wrote:You know what, the ej25 engines make slightly more HP, and slightly less torque than a bone stock ej22t, all on regular. Perhaps that is more what you are looking for. You'll have to do a bit of rewiring with any engine you put in, but that's my vote.
yes....if you do the HG w/the new/est gasket you'll get another 100K of it AS LONG AS THE BOTTOM END HASN"T BEEN OVERHEATED....if it has you're on borrowed time...and rod bearings.

And I believe the torque is better from idle?
I haven't seen stock for stock dyno plots. But I have owned multiple ej22t's and ej25d's, and a sohc ej253. The 25d makes power (torque?) noticeably later than the ej253 and 22t. The sohc ej25s are better for a daily driver imo, whereas the ej25d's are an engine that loves to rev, and are fun in a light car like the original 1998 RS. My 2000 RS had the ej25 sohc, and had nothing up top.

Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:48 pm
by wtdash
mike-tracy wrote:
wtdash wrote: w/the necessary EM to keep it alive.
What you consider to be good em for a build like this, that keeps costs down.
Mike - I'm assuming you mean on the '96-'98 stuff??, since we're both WELL versed in the Rob Tune, ESL and long gone Revtronix avl. to the 1st Gen. :-)

Piggy-backs and standalones are about it. I used a Greddy Emanage Ultimate on my '98 Forester project, and although it ran, I never got it 'right'. Since there are no USA turbo models from '95-'02, AND we moved to OBDII b4 anyone else we don't have the luxury of swapping in an EJ20G ECU from the same WRX/STI/Forester Turbo mid-90's models from overseas....w/out major harness swapping. If you're going to go to that trouble, just go '02+ WRX for the Open Source/COBB tuning options.

But if you want to just run boost on the stock EJ22e (or EJ25D) ECU from '90-'98, the basic recipe is what I'm doing PLUS an RRFPR and TMIC. 10 PSI all day, is doable.

Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:50 pm
by janas19
Mike-tracy, good to know. So far you guys have been a treasure pool of info for a noob like me.

Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:50 pm
by wtdash
mike-tracy wrote: The sohc ej25s are better for a daily driver imo, whereas the ej25d's are an engine that loves to rev, and are fun in a light car like the original 1998 RS. My 2000 RS had the ej25 sohc, and had nothing up top.
Yeah...this makes sense, after 'reflection', as those '99+ SOHC EJ25 heads are supposedly much better than any previous iteration.

Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:51 pm
by cj91legss
Just know that this isn't going to be the end. You say a hundred k motor. In a year or so you're going to want more....

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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:53 pm
by wtdash
cj91legss wrote:Just know that this isn't going to be the end. You say a hundred k motor. In a year or so you're going to want more....

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BTW, to the OP: What YEAR and Trans do you have now? Unless I missed, it?

Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:53 pm
by mike-tracy
wtdash wrote:
mike-tracy wrote:
wtdash wrote: w/the necessary EM to keep it alive.
What you consider to be good em for a build like this, that keeps costs down.
Mike - I'm assuming you mean on the '96-'98 stuff??, since we're both WELL versed in the Rob Tune, ESL and long gone Revtronix avl. to the 1st Gen. :-)

Piggy-backs and standalones are about it. I used a Greddy Emanage Ultimate on my '98 Forester project, and although it ran, I never got it 'right'. Since there are no USA turbo models from '95-'02, AND we moved to OBDII b4 anyone else we don't have the luxury of swapping in an EJ20G ECU from the same WRX/STI/Forester Turbo mid-90's models from overseas....w/out major harness swapping. If you're going to go to that trouble, just go '02+ WRX for the Open Source/COBB tuning options.

But if you want to just run boost on the stock EJ22e (or EJ25D) ECU from '90-'98, the basic recipe is what I'm doing PLUS an RRFPR and TMIC. 10 PSI all day, is doable.

Yes Todd, I'm not very familiar with turboing the 2nd (or later) gens. I had assumed good EM (not a half-way solution that may or may not work right like a piggy back) meant a wire in standalone or USDM wrx harness merge. I was just hoping you had found a plug in solution like the ESL.

Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:54 pm
by cj91legss
??

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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:59 pm
by wtdash
Edit: Wiring harness from the 96 on the 22T heads, that has to be some modification? 96 is OBDII, 22T is OBDI? :|

No, EXCEPT for the EJ22T IAC valve*...remember, the SOHC IM works on '90-'98 EJ22e engines, and the harness works w/the matching TPS - everything else plugs in. The heads have the water and oil lines source/feed, but otherwise they're the same as the '90-'95 heads.

*The IAC from an EJ22T has a 90° elbow to clear the turbo. I'd start looking for one now, as they're getting scarce. The NA version works but it's a really tight fit.

Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 7:59 pm
by janas19
wtdash wrote:
cj91legss wrote:Just know that this isn't going to be the end. You say a hundred k motor. In a year or so you're going to want more....

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BTW, to the OP: What YEAR and Trans do you have now? Unless I missed, it?
Zero :mrgreen:

I just have the 940 atm, I'm doing my research now so I can narrow down the exact model year/chassis to purchase.

Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:01 pm
by mike-tracy
wtdash wrote:
mike-tracy wrote: The sohc ej25s are better for a daily driver imo, whereas the ej25d's are an engine that loves to rev, and are fun in a light car like the original 1998 RS. My 2000 RS had the ej25 sohc, and had nothing up top.
Yeah...this makes sense, after 'reflection', as those '99+ SOHC EJ25 heads are supposedly much better than any previous iteration.
They probably do flow better, but don't have easily drill and tap points for oil and coolant like the phase I dohc heads. The cams and tuning is setup for immediate torque, so they are great drivers. But having owned ej25d's in manual cars, I missed the power up top. Supposedly the AVCS (variable valve timing for the uninitiated) based SOHC ej25's have power all over.

Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:07 pm
by mike-tracy
janas19 wrote:
wtdash wrote:
cj91legss wrote:Just know that this isn't going to be the end. You say a hundred k motor. In a year or so you're going to want more....

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BTW, to the OP: What YEAR and Trans do you have now? Unless I missed, it?
Zero :mrgreen:

I just have the 940 atm, I'm doing my research now so I can narrow down the exact model year/chassis to purchase.
If you don't have a car yet, and don't plan to run a stock ej22t, I'd like to encourage you to get a 2nd or 3rd gen legacy. They have more parts available at this stage, (arguably) better interiors, better driving dynamics when setup for it (mostly due to stiffer chassis) etc.

Since it's not your primary car, you could take your time on the build, sourcing better parts for good deals. To keep it emissions legal, and very upgradeable/capable, you could swap in the electronics from a USDM 2002-2005 WRX, and have a fully tunable/obd-ii compatible car that is a tune away from adding basically any go-fast part you could think of.

Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:08 pm
by wtdash
Janas19: If you have the option, I believe the '92-'94 had fewer gotchas than the '90-'91. The '90-'91 w/the 5-speed / manual trans had some weird wiring @ the TPS and/or IAC that could requires some work on the harness to the ECU. As well as a different ECU (although still 4 plug, I believe).

But my '90 EJ22e w/the stock 4EAT/Automatic had no problems running both the EJ22T and EJ20G ECU's (w/the mods to match the ECU's requirements) w/all the stuff I did to it. :-)

Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:09 pm
by cj91legss
I went that route a couple years ago, I think my knuckles still hurt...

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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:11 pm
by wtdash
mike-tracy wrote: If you don't have a car yet, and don't plan to run a stock ej22t, I'd like to encourage you to get a 2nd or 3rd gen legacy. They have more parts available at this stage, (arguably) better interiors, better driving dynamics when setup for it (mostly due to stiffer chassis) etc.

Since it's not your primary car, you could take your time on the build, sourcing better parts for good deals. To keep it emissions legal, and very upgradeable/capable, you could swap in the electronics from a USDM 2002-2005 WRX, and have a fully tunable/obd-ii compatible car that is a tune away from adding basically any go-fast part you could think of.
+100

And no motorized seat belts! (Although I have an App, er Mod, for that!).

Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:14 pm
by cj91legss
wtdash wrote:
mike-tracy wrote: If you don't have a car yet, and don't plan to run a stock ej22t, I'd like to encourage you to get a 2nd or 3rd gen legacy. They have more parts available at this stage, (arguably) better interiors, better driving dynamics when setup for it (mostly due to stiffer chassis) etc.

Since it's not your primary car, you could take your time on the build, sourcing better parts for good deals. To keep it emissions legal, and very upgradeable/capable, you could swap in the electronics from a USDM 2002-2005 WRX, and have a fully tunable/obd-ii compatible car that is a tune away from adding basically any go-fast part you could think of.
+100

And no motorized seat belts! (Although I have an App, er Mod, for that!).
I kinda miss my electric seatbelts... :-(

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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:17 pm
by janas19
Please don't exile me, but I wanted a second or third gen originally. For pretty much the reasons you said.

However - I was thinking 1st gen with the 22T heads would be super easy in terms of wiring. Just change a few pins around and add one sensor I think.

Maybe I could get a later gen with the WRX parts, and rewire. Realistic chances of success for someone on a first time swap?

Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:22 pm
by cj91legss
janas19 wrote:Please don't exile me, but I wanted a second or third gen originally. For pretty much the reasons you said.

However - I was thinking 1st gen with the 22T heads would be super easy in terms of wiring. Just change a few pins around and add one sensor I think.

Maybe I could get a later gen with the WRX parts, and rewire. Realistic chances of success for someone on a first time swap?
Realistic chances.... if you set your mind to it you can do it.

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Re: Turbocharging the EJ22E?

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:26 pm
by janas19
cj91legss wrote: Realistic chances.... if you set your mind to it you can do it.
I like to have all my ducks in order before I start any project. And it seems like there's a lot more to understand about the WRX swap than there is the 22T swap. The OBDII ECU isn't my strong point and that information is a bit intimidating to me.