Ej22t/v6207

[tfoote3]

Hello all, ive got a couple of stock ej22ts, and i just purchased a jdm v6 ej207, and i want to build a 22t block and match the heads for the 207, and slap it all in my 94 legacy SS, but would love the ability to swap into another chassis later on. Ive been looking at others builds and have a few questions. I have done some searching, and would gladly accept some direction to where i can find out more details of this build. I know its complex, and im here to learn. Im not new to this engine, but this will be my first "hybrid" motor build.

First, Ecu options. I dont have the jdm chassis harness or ecu. So i would like to know where to head with that part. Maybe usdm wrx?

Second. Crank/rods/piston options.

Third, from what ive gathered i will need to match the bore on the heads to the block, and i need to have the thrust bearing machined out to #5 (phase 2). I live in Salt Lake City, any recomendations for machine shops would be appriciated if had.

Fourth, is this worth my time? I do want to be unique and from what ive read these heads are good. My power goal is 320hp/tq. I just want a fun reliable daily. This wont be a racecar.

The car currently has sti 550s, a big fmic, and currently a td04, but i also have a like new vf28, full 3" catless turbo back, and a 330lph fuel pump, ive also got a voodoo MBC, inovative AFR wideband. And im ready to learn.

Thanks

[Legacy777]

The first thing I'd get sorted out is engine management. That is more important than anything else and will dictate what you can do. I think sticking with OBD2 is the best option, however that means additional wiring for a 1st gen Legacy. Something like an open ECU tuning architecture is probably the best option, but I don't have much experience with it.

Hopefully others comment about the mechanical fit of the various components.

[mike-tracy]

The version 5&6 ej207 is electronically compatible with the usdm 02-05 Wrx, so the easiest thing to do would be a wiring harness merge with the US Wrx electronics. Since the new ecu is tunable, you could use any combination of short blocks, injectors or turbos. To me this makes the most sense.

If you're not up to the challenge if rewiring your car, a company called Iwire will merge your harness with a Wrx one for cash.

[tfoote3]

Ok cool, thanks for the info. Im going to be on the lookout for a wrx ecu and full harness. I contacted Iwire and they are willing to help me out, but its going to cost a fair chunk of change. If i can find diagrams and a get a good idea as to what needs to be done ill tackle that one myself, but honestly that depends where i am finacially in a few weeks with some unexpexted bills that came up.

But as far as the crank/rods/pistons can anyone confirm if i should or shouldnt try and go phase II and machine for a #5 thrust bearing? Or stick with the stock crank and if so, should i replace pistons? Rods? Or simply bearings, and rings? And machine the head to match the bore. I honestly just want to get a solid idea as to how much this is going to cost me so i can start sourcing parts and machine work.

Im aslo kicking around an ABS delete to simply the under manifold intake setup that comes on the 207. My ABS has never worked right anyway.

While on a tangent, and suggestions to strengthen the 5spd? I dont want a grenade if or when it sees 320tq.

Thanks again

[wtdash]

Hi,
I'm no engine expert so all I'll say is that if you don't know the EJ22Ts' miles/history, maybe the rebuild is worth it.

ABS can probably be fixed - deleting looks painful, but haven't done that project.

I put 300tq thru the stock 5-speed...it's not the transmission as much as how YOU drive it. Dump the clutch, launch it, etc, will kill any transmission. But Mr. Legacy777/JC has done the 6-speed swap, if you're not sure you can control your clutch pedal.

GL,
TD

[tfoote3]

Well, i am going to st the very minimum refresh the 22t block, as i know it burned oil, if i remember correct it had decent compression. My other 22t is in the car currently with all new seals and its got an ungodly knock. So im going to use the one out of the car for the build. Anyone know where i can get parts for the 207? Ill need new gaskets and a timing belt kit, and covers. Also one of the cam sprockets has some teeth chewed up, looks like that happened while getting it out.

Im sure the 5spd can handle it, i do like to hoon a bit so im not so sure i can be nice enough to it. But the 5spd also already grinds a bit into 2nd so a refresh on that would be nice too

[mike-tracy]

The seal & gasket kit is almost identical to the usdm ej205. I had to do the smallest amount of trimming on one valve cover gasket. Everything else fit. I kind of think they gave me a random dohc valve cover gasket, since everything else fit with no modification. This is referring my ver 5/6 ej207.

[Legacy777]

I encourage you to do a proper rebuild of the motor. I did a "refresh" on my first ej22t rebuild and didn't deck the heads and it came around and bit me when the headgasket started leaking. I made similar comments in another recent thread. The money you think you're saving in the rebuild is very small in terms of the big picture if you have to pull the engine again and do the work a second time. If you don't have the funds at the moment, wait and do the project when you do.

I do not recommend deleting the ABS. Take a look at some recent comments

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic. ... 72#p444672
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic. ... 99#p444899

Regarding the 5spd, I think you are giving it too much credit. The question isn't if you'll kill the 5spd it's when. When I did my 6spd swap I drained the oil from the 5spd and there was an entire gear tooth stuck the magnetic drain plug. I haven't taken apart the 5spd to see where it came from; and that was before I had the more recent tune done on it.

Here is my latest tune/dyno plots

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic. ... 79#p431279

[tfoote3]

Well this is definately going to be a my DD so ill keep the ABS as im no racecar driver and the lack of bumper bar to fit my fmic would make a sad and expensive sandwich for whoever i hit. Im still thinking of build a drift style homemade bar so i have some sort of protection.

Josh where did you get your 6spd? And how much did it cost you? Thats my primary factor in that swap. I would love a 6spd otherwise. Do you know of a way to steengthen the current 5spd? Mine already grinds into second sometimes.

And i was planning on decking the block and the heads as well if needed. I dont want to pull this back out immidiately.

Good to know that i can use the gaskets for a 205. That makes life easier, what about HGs

Seeing your dynos gives me confidence that the stock interns; crank, rods, and pistons will hold up at my power goal.

Anyone have a link to a writeup on a harness merge for this setup. Usdm 205 engine harness to my factory legacy chassis wiring? Or have any suggestions for this. The cost of having someone else do it seems steep

[mike-tracy]

You can use 205 HGs as well, they are the proper shape and size. Although you can reuse the stock rods, ej257 rods are a lot stronger, yet are compatible with the 22t pistons and crank.

Did you know the ver 6 STI has forged pistons? It is a great motor, great flowing heads and solid bottom end. I think you could save some money initially and run that in the car, while building up a 22t at your own pace.

[mike-tracy]

Also, most people don't modify their combustion when using a 2.2, matter of fact the factory 22b had stock ej20k sti heads from what I've read. Apparently it isn't a big deal, unlike pairing 2.0L heads with an ej25.

[janas19]

Anyone have a link to a writeup on a harness merge for this setup. Usdm 205 engine harness to my factory legacy chassis wiring? Or have any suggestions for this. The cost of having someone else do it seems steep

For the EJ205 into 1st gen legacy? Unfortunately, it seems no step-by-step walkthrough exists. But there are some detailed writeups for other chassis out there which I compiled:

1. Alphius WRX into 99 Legacy swap thread. Great resource.

2. Brydon's WRX into 99-01 RS Impreza thread. Not for our cars but lots of similarities. This is probably the most comprehensive thread.

3. Brydon's WRX into RS walkthrough thread. Step-by-step and lots of photos, specifically for the RS.

4. NASIOC Conversion FAQ Good primer and lots of links to NASIOC threads on conversions.

[mike-tracy]

I haven't heard of any bbs members merging harnesses, but I have heard of a couple who put the Wrx dash in with 100% of its wiring.


Cj91legss, jake15 and that one guy who sells the fender braces, come to mind.

[Alphius]

Here's some bits off the top of my head:

My (Alphius') WRX swap thread has a wiring harness merge spreadsheet in it that may be somewhat helpful for you in understanding the connections that must be made, however the Legacy side of that wiring will be different as my swap was in a Gen2 Legacy.

No need for chamber work on EJ20 heads on top of a EJ22 block. Heck, even Subaru's DOHC EJ25 from the factory has EJ20 sized combustion chambers in an EJ25 bore. No problem. It's the other way you can't do, e.g. EJ257 heads on an EJ22 shortblock.

The 5-speed is a ticking timebomb. If you literally never dump the clutch, go full boost in first gear or powershift it might last for a while. The strongest 5-speed you can get is the 05-06 Legacy GT, followed by the 04+ Forester XT, 03+ WRX, and JDM RA boxes. They stand up a little better, but are still easy to break via clutch dropping abuse or powershifting. Moore Performance Blast Plates are a $500 upgrade that some say can extend the lifetime of a Subaru 5-speed. A 6-speed swap done as cheaply as possible will cost in the neighborhood of $3,000 plus or minus $500 or so depending on level of dealz found.

Machining any Phase1 block for Phase2 thrust is a waste of time unless you're trying to build a 2.35L stroker. Subaru engines in either configuration don't seem to have untoward problems with thrust bearing wear, and the Phase1 crank is just as forged as the Phase2 one.

[Legacy777]

Josh where did you get your 6spd? And how much did it cost you? Thats my primary factor in that swap. I would love a 6spd otherwise. Do you know of a way to steengthen the current 5spd? Mine already grinds into second sometimes.

I bought it off a member on NASIOC. It was around $3,000, plus I had money for clutch, PP, flywheel, & DCCD controller. It's not a cheap conversion, but neither is building a 5spd or replacing it every few months.

Seeing your dynos gives me confidence that the stock interns; crank, rods, and pistons will hold up at my power goal.

Please keep in mind I've got all aftermarket forged internals now (Eagle rods & Wiseco pistons). Here are pictures of the build.

https://main.experiencetherave.com/suba ... t_headwork

[tfoote3]

Did you know the ver 6 STI has forged pistons? It is a great motor, great flowing heads and solid bottom end. I think you could save some money initially and run that in the car, while building up a 22t at your own pace.

The 207 i got apparently had oil in the coolant according to the PO, i havent had time to disect and verify but im worried it might be in worse shape than i thought. Im hoping for just a bag HG, but i cant confirm this yet. So, point being i have to tear them both down so im planning on doing the build at the same time.


I bought it off a member on NASIOC. It was around $3,000, plus I had money for clutch, PP, flywheel, & DCCD controller. It's not a cheap conversion, but neither is building a 5spd or replacing it every few months.

Well, if thats the case, ill keep my eyes peeled locally and go forward with my swap. And when the 5spd gives up the ghost ill have to do something, but ill be waiting months for this swap if i wait til i can buy a 6spd without a loan.

Josh how much did your forged ser up run you? And where did you get your parts?

[mike-tracy]

The 207 i got apparently had oil in the coolant according to the PO, i havent had time to disect and verify but im worried it might be in worse shape than i thought. Im hoping for just a bag HG, but i cant confirm this yet. So, point being i have to tear them both down so im planning on doing the build at the same time.

I'm assuming the PO had oil in the coolant when it last ran? If so, I'm with you that it's the HG's. Just have the heads inspected for flatness, replace HG's with OEM, should be good to go.

[tfoote3]

Yeah, but the timing belt is off too. Its like they started taking it apart and lost motivation, or they found something that made them give up. Or they realized they didn't know what they were doing. Is the ej207 an interfierance motor? One of the cam gears (sprocket) sounds like it has issues when you move it. O really need to stop guessing and start working.

Nontheless even if i do run the 207 i need some way to manage it. Is it easier to do this swap into newer cars? Or about the same?

[mike-tracy]

Yeah, all ej turbo engines are interference, except for the 22t. Hard to say about the noise when turning the sprocket. Hopefully it's just surface rust that will clean away when ran.

I agree. You should start taking it apart

[Legacy777]

Josh how much did your forged ser up run you? And where did you get your parts?

I don't recall the prices off the top of my head or where I got them as that was several years ago. I seem to recall pistons were around $400. You can do a quick search online to check prices.