Engine problems: Fuel pump?

Heads, valves, pistons, rods, crankshaft, etc...

Moderators: Helpinators, Moderators

Post Reply
georryan
Fourth Gear
Posts: 2097
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:39 am
Location: USA Bellingham WA

Engine problems: Fuel pump?

Post by georryan »

Hey guys, Odd thing happened today.

I was running errends for work and was using my car. I never drove far, no more than 6 blocks, but it seemed to be running just fine. I drove back to work and parked it. When I came out the car wouldn't start.

The fuel lines were full when I checked them and later that night I checked them again and with the help of a buddy found that there wasn't any fuel being pushed out of the of the exit of the fuel filter.

the car wouldn't even begin to start, it may start to crank, or sound like it had caught, but by the time I had the key back to the normal on position the car would be dead. That fast. If it was fuel filter it would still get some fuel and run rough right?

Do fuel pumps just stop working like that. Very sudden like? Has anyone had problems like this before or fuel pump problems with their cars?? I have 141,000 miles on my car.

Give me your input, please. :)

-Ryan
91 Pearl White Sport Sedan
04 Java Black Pearl Forester XT
2014 Volvo S60 T5
18 KTM 1290 Adventure S

87 Grey GL-10 Sedan (so long old buddy) - donated
97 Toyota 4Runner SR5 - sold
2002 BMW r1150rt-p - sold
2004 BMW r1200ST - sold
2016 BMW r1200RS - sold
DLC
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 2775
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 1:58 am
Location: Utah
Contact:

Post by DLC »

If you're not getting any fuel, i'd start with the filter and them the pump. 141k miles is quite a few, and it could probably use replacement anyways. I don't recall anyone else saying that their pump just up and gave up, but i'm certain that it's happened.

Dave
Legacy Central
2001 Legacy Outback Wagon | 2005 OB XT LTD | 1997 Legacy Outback Limited | 1998 Legacy L Wagon | 2000 GT Limited | 93 Legacy Touring Wagon 5MT | 90 Legacy L+
georryan
Fourth Gear
Posts: 2097
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:39 am
Location: USA Bellingham WA

Post by georryan »

Now I know that if the MAF isn't working, the car won't run or start. But will a non-working MAF keep the fuel from being pumped?

Also, a note, when you turn the key to the on position and you listen to the gas tank, you should hear the fuel pump wind up or start or osmething like that, my friend said he didn't hear anything so he was pretty sure it was fuel pump. I just want to make sure it isn't anything else possably. Were is a good place to get one if it ends up I need to go that route. I'm not sure I'd want to go to schucks or Napa to some after market part for that particular car, right?

-Ryan
91 Pearl White Sport Sedan
04 Java Black Pearl Forester XT
2014 Volvo S60 T5
18 KTM 1290 Adventure S

87 Grey GL-10 Sedan (so long old buddy) - donated
97 Toyota 4Runner SR5 - sold
2002 BMW r1150rt-p - sold
2004 BMW r1200ST - sold
2016 BMW r1200RS - sold
scoobiedoo22
First Gear
Posts: 144
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 9:04 pm
Location: Michigan's Upper Peninsula
Contact:

Fuel Pump Reply

Post by scoobiedoo22 »

Remember that when you turn your key in the "on" position the fuel pump only cylcles once, then stops, it woun't continue cycling. This is a trick to keep it cycling (or if it's shot, to hear it not cycling), with your car off and the key out of the ignition, connect the two green electrical connectors that are used to read the "check engine" codes (the codes might also lead you in the right direction), if you don't know where the connectors are at there are plenty of links out there with their location and how to check the codes. Now turn the key to the on position and the pump should cylce over and over and you should hear the wine from the pump.

This might not be your problem(use a miltimeter first to find out) but some of the guys on the list have had problems with the electrical connector to the fuel pump corroding over time, causing the pump to quit working. The connector is located under the rear seat cusion on the passenger side, it is white and should be the only connector there. To fix this just cut the wires as close to each side of the connector as you can and then solder each wire to its corresponding wire, best way to do this is to cut just two wires at a time and soldering them so you don't mix/switch any wires, then wrap em up with electrical tape, tuck them away and your good to go.
If it is your pump, don't go OEM or replacement, go aftermarket with a Walbro fuel pump. They are much cheaper, push more fuel, and are almost a drop and go replacement. Hope this puts you on the right track and good luck.
1991 Legacy SS 5-Speed

1999 Impreza 2.5RS Coupe
georryan
Fourth Gear
Posts: 2097
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:39 am
Location: USA Bellingham WA

Post by georryan »

Well I talked to Steve Barsotti from Barsotti's Auto Care in Newcastle, CA (one awsome subaru mechanic) and he is pretty sure it is my fuel pump. But I have some more tests I'll be doing to narrow it down.

My question is, I"m hearing that the walbro fuel pump is the route I should take, but I've heard other sources say that the current pump in there is a real good one and that you don't need to put out more fuel. Would it be better to go with an OEM or replacement pump, or go with an aftermarket high performance pump for a replacement. I may be able to get a replacement fairly cheep (about 200-300 dollars), and yes the walbro is probably cheaper, but which one is more advisable to use?

Thanks for your response scoobiedoo, but I've heard a lot of condlicting statements in this area.

-Ryan
91 Pearl White Sport Sedan
04 Java Black Pearl Forester XT
2014 Volvo S60 T5
18 KTM 1290 Adventure S

87 Grey GL-10 Sedan (so long old buddy) - donated
97 Toyota 4Runner SR5 - sold
2002 BMW r1150rt-p - sold
2004 BMW r1200ST - sold
2016 BMW r1200RS - sold
billc
In Neutral
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 11:09 am
Location: St.Paul MN

Post by billc »

I installed a walbro and I am happy with it.It seems to pull a little harder ,but that is only my opinion as I have heard conflicting reports on the adequacy of the stock fuel pump also.I am running 13psi of intercooled boost.I still have the stock one.You can have it for shipping costs. It is just cluttering my garage(along with a bunch of other subaru stuff).It does however have about 135k on it. Good luck, BillC. p.s.Walbro was 150$.
93 Sport Sedan,3 kids,no time
georryan
Fourth Gear
Posts: 2097
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:39 am
Location: USA Bellingham WA

Post by georryan »

Bill,

Hey thanks for the offer, I'll probably take you up on that. I'm going to test a couple things tomarrow but if it turns out that it probably is the pump, I may just take you up on it. Thanks for the offer.

I hear ya on the walbro also, I'll be looking into it. Thanks

-Ryan
91 Pearl White Sport Sedan
04 Java Black Pearl Forester XT
2014 Volvo S60 T5
18 KTM 1290 Adventure S

87 Grey GL-10 Sedan (so long old buddy) - donated
97 Toyota 4Runner SR5 - sold
2002 BMW r1150rt-p - sold
2004 BMW r1200ST - sold
2016 BMW r1200RS - sold
Aaron's ej22t
Second Gear
Posts: 266
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 6:57 am
Location: North Bend, Wa

Post by Aaron's ej22t »

fyi, there are places that sell the walbro fuel pump for as low as $100. someone on i-club even mentioned they picked one up for $80 new! :o
92 Legacy Turbo \ 5MT \ Silver
scoobiedoo22
First Gear
Posts: 144
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 9:04 pm
Location: Michigan's Upper Peninsula
Contact:

walbro

Post by scoobiedoo22 »

If you do go with the Walbro, don't over do it with one of their 255lph pumps, this is way more fuel than your engine will ever need and your stock fuel pressure regulator cannot handle passing all this unused fuel past it. Possibly going with one of Walbros 155lph or 190lph, both of these offer improvement over stock fuel pump flow which I believe is around 110lph (anybody know for sure for either NA's or turbos?) You can find these online for $70-$90 at:

http://www.jdsperformance.com/

Have heard great things about the guy that runs this, very helpfull and knows his stuff, even for subies.
1991 Legacy SS 5-Speed

1999 Impreza 2.5RS Coupe
mile hi
First Gear
Posts: 194
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 7:21 pm
Location: Denver Colorado
Contact:

Post by mile hi »

The first thing to check is a connector that is under the rear seat this connector has caused many more problems than the pump, relay and all other components in the fuel system. The best thing to do is just jumper this connector with the same gauge wire, solder, and tape it. It serves no purpose what so ever as far as we can tell. The Walbro 255 pump is ok we have been running them for years with no problems at all.
AL(CO)
georryan
Fourth Gear
Posts: 2097
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:39 am
Location: USA Bellingham WA

Post by georryan »

Turns that my problem was that connector under the passenger rear seat.

We did some routine checks on a lot of things. We weren't getting power to the back two connectors so we went for the relay but it was working. (It is a pain to get to let me tell ya). Next we went back and checked the back two connectors again. The one under the seat was probably loose or something cause we finally got it to work and then the car started right up. Thanks for the info guys, you helped a lot.

-Ryan

PS Bill, I probalby won't be needing your pump anymore, even though I bet you might have paid me to get it out of your garage. :)
91 Pearl White Sport Sedan
04 Java Black Pearl Forester XT
2014 Volvo S60 T5
18 KTM 1290 Adventure S

87 Grey GL-10 Sedan (so long old buddy) - donated
97 Toyota 4Runner SR5 - sold
2002 BMW r1150rt-p - sold
2004 BMW r1200ST - sold
2016 BMW r1200RS - sold
billc
In Neutral
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 11:09 am
Location: St.Paul MN

Post by billc »

Happy to hear that you sorted it out. Isnt it great when a fix to a problem turns out to be simple and free.That is what groups like this are for! BillC :wink:
93 Sport Sedan,3 kids,no time
Adambc5
In Neutral
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2002 3:24 am
Location: Long Island, New York
Contact:

Post by Adambc5 »

had this happen to me the other day too at the gas station!

Did a wiggle test, started right up, so used some good electrical "goop" (aka dilectric spray), and made sure the conenctorsd were all making tight contact...all is well.

As for fuel pump selection, it comes down to your intended setup. Stock pump is 136 lph as I recal;l (DLC can corect me on this :) ), so a tad bigger than the WRX one (new age).

A 210 lph pump is good for roughly 350 hp. I personally fitted the Walbro 255 lph pump for a 2g DSM as it is what we had in stock (and I could nto justify the more expensive Supra pump from inventory for this car), and it works great. the stock regulator is VERy good on the Subarus...i ahve never had to fit an aftermarket one except when we are doing our entire fuel system mods (custom parrallel rail , external pump, braided lines, etc.). I measure fuel pressure at idle pre and post Walbro install, and the numbers were exactly the same, which tells you the stock regulator is bypassing the fuel it is not using. if it were not, base pressure at idle would rise.

Now I am confident that fuel flow is not an issue for me, and I am currently running 1 bar of intercooled boost on a TD05, stock injectors.

Adam
Z-1 Performance
'91 BC5 Turbo, modded :)
morgie
Third Gear
Posts: 743
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2002 12:55 am
Location: Quebec City / Canada
Contact:

Post by morgie »

I had a very similar problem about 3 weeks ago...

Car was starting sometimes.. not starting some other times...


The dealer diagnosed a bad Fuel Pump, so i putted in a Holly 255lph pump for a DSM (that's the only one i found, i was on a rush..), but unfortunately, that was not my problem !!!

in fact, the problem was a bad connector, placed under the back seat.

I just cutted the wires of the connector and made a new connection and the problem is solved. 0.50$ Solution for a 600$ problem ....


Image
georryan
Fourth Gear
Posts: 2097
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:39 am
Location: USA Bellingham WA

Post by georryan »

Sorry to hear that, I'm lucky I didn't have to spend all that money to figure that out. I feel pretty lucky that I figured it out the way I did. These boards are pretty helpful. I never would have imagined that the problem would be that connector.

-Ryan
91 Pearl White Sport Sedan
04 Java Black Pearl Forester XT
2014 Volvo S60 T5
18 KTM 1290 Adventure S

87 Grey GL-10 Sedan (so long old buddy) - donated
97 Toyota 4Runner SR5 - sold
2002 BMW r1150rt-p - sold
2004 BMW r1200ST - sold
2016 BMW r1200RS - sold
scoobiedoo22
First Gear
Posts: 144
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 9:04 pm
Location: Michigan's Upper Peninsula
Contact:

Post by scoobiedoo22 »

Ryan,
Glad to hear that you got everything sorted out and that it didn't drain your wallet.

john k
1991 Legacy SS 5-Speed

1999 Impreza 2.5RS Coupe
Post Reply