Jamal's blanket suspension recommendations

Struts, spring, anti-rollbars, braces and the like.

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klaxed
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Post by klaxed » Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:17 am

I am running the "Stage 2" setup listed above and I would say after driving on it for about 6-7 months now that I love it. The car corners really good and the ride quality isn't too harsh. Its' a little bumpy but very managable. I just wish I could get the front a tad lower and the rear a tad higher as it looks like my car has some negative rake going on due to the front fender around the wheels is cut higher than in the back. But since I don't have any money, I can deal with it for now.
Brent

'92 Legacy Wagon Winestone, 265K on body, ~100K on engine, 5spd, kyb gr2's w/ whiteline ground control springs, sti top hats, hatch spoiler to be added soon...

Brat4by4
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Post by Brat4by4 » Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:57 pm

klaxed wrote:I just wish I could get the front a tad lower and the rear a tad higher as it LOOKS like my car has some negative rake going on due to the front fender around the wheels is cut higher than in the back.
So now you wanna screw up the handling on your car for looks? :shock:

The front fenders are cut higher so your wheels can turn and compress at the same time...
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asc_up
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Post by asc_up » Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:41 pm

Brat4by4 wrote:
klaxed wrote:I just wish I could get the front a tad lower and the rear a tad higher as it LOOKS like my car has some negative rake going on due to the front fender around the wheels is cut higher than in the back.
So now you wanna screw up the handling on your car for looks? :shock:

The front fenders are cut higher so your wheels can turn and compress at the same time...
But what if he got an Anti-Lift Kit, too? That way the front end wouldn't compress as much.
-Aaron

2000 Audi S4 - 2.7L Twin-turbo, 6 Speed

[quote="evolutionmovement"]It was me. And those are my balls. Happy Sunday![/quote]

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Post by jamal » Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:49 pm

Actually and ALK is an anti-anti-lift kit. It increases dive and lift, noticeably. The better mod would be the Whiteline roll center adjustment kit. It doesn't keep you out of the bumpstops or increase travel but it will improve the camber curve.

asc_up
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Post by asc_up » Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:42 pm

Right. But Brat4by4 is saying that if he lowers the front and raises the back that he'll screw up his handling because the car will basically want to dive too far when cornering and braking.

So wouldn't an ALK stop the car from diving around corners and when braking?
-Aaron

2000 Audi S4 - 2.7L Twin-turbo, 6 Speed

[quote="evolutionmovement"]It was me. And those are my balls. Happy Sunday![/quote]

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Post by jamal » Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:58 pm

Brat4x4 is saying that if you lower the car too far you run into the problems I listed at the bottom of the last page:

-Out of bump travel
-poor camber curve
-larger roll couple
Last edited by jamal on Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:02 am, edited 2 times in total.

Adam West
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Post by Adam West » Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:59 pm

ALK doesn't do much on corners but is for straight ahead launch stablity and under braking.

This info might be helpful on the ALK.

http://www.whiteline.com.au/articles/Ef ... 0ALK_b.pdf

Check out the graphs - I hope I'm reading this right and it "decreases" dive and lift, hence the name...

I'm intregued about these Front Roll Center Adjustment Kits? Never heard of them, Can someone post a link to a review? Or a picture of how they go on the car?

Are these new?


AW
93SS 5MT White, TD05-16G, TMIC, 3"Turboback, Magnaflow, Alu Rad, H&R Sports, AGX struts, F/R STBs, Whiteline Sways, ALK+Endlinks, Odyssey 925, AC delete, Evo8 Recaros, Sparco 4p, 3.9 LSD, Hellas+air horns, IPD short throw, 99RSrims, s03's

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Post by jamal » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:01 am

RCA review:
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=33918

Yeah they've only been out for a couple of months. If I didn't have brand new ball joints I'd pick some up.

Yeah, check the table in that article on page 4: It completely removes the Anti-dive geometry and creates pro-lift characteristics.

Thanks a lot for posting that by the way.
Last edited by jamal on Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

Adam West
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Post by Adam West » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:20 am

Ah, so it is Anti Lift but not Anti Dive - but to answer the question before, the ALK doesn't really apply to cornering loads?

Yes, just found this thread. on the FRCAK.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=1155654

Very new and very confusing since I can find the part number but not that same picture on the Whiteline web site. This might be a redesign???

KCA313

Also, Harman is offering these on that site for $163 but don't know about shipping...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=1424644
93SS 5MT White, TD05-16G, TMIC, 3"Turboback, Magnaflow, Alu Rad, H&R Sports, AGX struts, F/R STBs, Whiteline Sways, ALK+Endlinks, Odyssey 925, AC delete, Evo8 Recaros, Sparco 4p, 3.9 LSD, Hellas+air horns, IPD short throw, 99RSrims, s03's

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Post by Adam West » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:25 am

O.k here's how the Front Roll CAK works right from the horses mouth - started life as an EVO part but should apply to our cars as well...

Detailed Whiteline write up...

http://www.suspensionparts.info/showthread.php?t=999

Online review summary...

"... Tests on Project EVO showed that raising the front roll-centre resulted in a substantial increase to front roll resistance and a significant reduction in suspension compression of the outside front wheel during cornering (less roll).

This improves weight distribution, maintains a better camber angle and ultimately improves front grip. The overall outcome is significantly reduced understeer through reduced front wheel compression, as well as improved steering feel, steering precision and vehicle stability...."

http://news.hspn.com/articles/1024/1/Wh ... Page1.html

Whiteline "Fitting Instructions"...

http://www.globalperformanceparts.com/f ... KCA313.pdf
Last edited by Adam West on Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:52 am, edited 3 times in total.
93SS 5MT White, TD05-16G, TMIC, 3"Turboback, Magnaflow, Alu Rad, H&R Sports, AGX struts, F/R STBs, Whiteline Sways, ALK+Endlinks, Odyssey 925, AC delete, Evo8 Recaros, Sparco 4p, 3.9 LSD, Hellas+air horns, IPD short throw, 99RSrims, s03's

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Post by jamal » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:29 am

Adam West wrote:Ah, so it is Anti Lift but not Anti Dive - but to answer the question before, the ALK doesn't really apply to cornering loads?
It's both pro-lift and pro-dive. it removes the "anti-" geometry to soften up the front end. I guess that particular aspect doesn't have much effect on cornering but the harder bushing and added caster certainly do make a difference when you're not braking or accelerating. Overall it makes a HUGE difference, especially powering out of a turn, and I'm very glad I bought one.

There are a few versions. KCA359 is the same as KCA319 but includes subframe spacers for an 02+ Impreza. There are also harder and softer versions of it.

Man you're dragging up boatloads of good info and links.

Adam West
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Post by Adam West » Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:38 am

Yeah, this is going to take me days to grock. I'm just printing stuff out to read later...

Your "blanket" is growing too. Seems like this new part really might make a big difference in the understeer monsters that are our cars.

Perhaps a good first mod to keep the car out of the WY for inexperience drivers?...
93SS 5MT White, TD05-16G, TMIC, 3"Turboback, Magnaflow, Alu Rad, H&R Sports, AGX struts, F/R STBs, Whiteline Sways, ALK+Endlinks, Odyssey 925, AC delete, Evo8 Recaros, Sparco 4p, 3.9 LSD, Hellas+air horns, IPD short throw, 99RSrims, s03's

asc_up
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Post by asc_up » Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:36 am

Oh ok. I understand how it works now. Thanks for clearing that up guys.
-Aaron

2000 Audi S4 - 2.7L Twin-turbo, 6 Speed

[quote="evolutionmovement"]It was me. And those are my balls. Happy Sunday![/quote]

smh0101
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Post by smh0101 » Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:50 am

Ahem... Can this be stickied?? Very useful info here.
~Spencer
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94 Legacy Ti Wagon (5mt ej22e)
91 rhd Legacy GT Wagon (factory 5mt, ej20g)
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jamal
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Post by jamal » Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:00 am

I think we might start to collect too many threads up there.

A threads of note sticky would be good though. I'm working on a thread to clear up all the differences between 90-91, 92-94, and the wrx stuff since it's been coming up lately and it seems some of the stuff we'd previously thought was wrong.

smh0101
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Post by smh0101 » Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:04 am

Cool... the threads of note may be a better way but this ought to be linked some where!

I'm going with GC Coilover Sleeves and AGXs...
~Spencer
94 Legacy Turbo (550 Robtune/ej20h v2 Sti RA drivetrain)
94 Legacy Ti Wagon (5mt ej22e)
91 rhd Legacy GT Wagon (factory 5mt, ej20g)
93 rhd Legacy GT type S2 Sedan (4eat, ej20g)
91 rhd Legacy Ti Type S 1.8
03 Lincoln LS V8 Sport
08 300 SRT8

jamal
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Post by jamal » Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:26 am

There's some good info floating around iwsti and nasioc about lengths and rates posted by stretchjse.

Legacy294 doesn't seem to like the sleeves but I personally can't think of a better option.

For on-road handling you need quite a bit of roll stiffness to keep the camber curve in check. I think the 10k/8k spring rates and 27mm swaybars I occasionally see is overkill, but I'd be willing to go stiffer than what's available in the lowering springs out there.


Anyway, the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know. Of course, if there was an easy answer to any of this stuff a lot of race car engineers would be out of work.

Legacy777
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Post by Legacy777 » Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:04 pm

I added a sticky compilation thread which included all the existing stickies and this thread. Please feel free to add to it.
Josh

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Reiji Dorifuta
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Post by Reiji Dorifuta » Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:27 am

Maybe I missed it, but can someone give me a part number on the "whiteline control" springs? I think that + GR-2 + roll camber adjustment kit will seriously spruce up my car's 'worn out' handling, floaty ass and help ease some of the car's natural FWD understeer.

Reiji Dorifuta
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Post by Reiji Dorifuta » Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:29 am

http://www.maperformance.com/store/prod ... 262&page=1

Are these the springs?

Will I have any problems mounting them?

Reiji Dorifuta
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Post by Reiji Dorifuta » Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:27 am

wow, you guys are really helpful :roll:

jamal
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Post by jamal » Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:30 am

well exuuuuse me, princess.

I hadn't noticed your post.

There are springs that specifically fit your car from whiteline, and those are the ones you want. Using WRX springs is going to oddly affect ride height. I've been meaning to go through and post it all but haven't had time.

Reiji Dorifuta
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Post by Reiji Dorifuta » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:04 pm

Sorry, but riding on the old suspension for a month was starting to get to me :P

(Well, that and I'm used to busy forums with same-day responses)

I guess I'll have to search harder for these springs.

Adam West
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Post by Adam West » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:52 pm

Try here in order of appearance...

1.
http://www.boxer4racing.com/ (call and talk to Dale)

2.
http://www.globalperformanceparts.com/s ... 5_141.html

3.
http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/subaru_corner.html

Good luck.

BTW, H&R springs are easier to source. They just don't have a "flat-out" option.

www.get-primitive.com (call and speak with Paul)

AW
Last edited by Adam West on Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
93SS 5MT White, TD05-16G, TMIC, 3"Turboback, Magnaflow, Alu Rad, H&R Sports, AGX struts, F/R STBs, Whiteline Sways, ALK+Endlinks, Odyssey 925, AC delete, Evo8 Recaros, Sparco 4p, 3.9 LSD, Hellas+air horns, IPD short throw, 99RSrims, s03's

Reiji Dorifuta
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Post by Reiji Dorifuta » Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:54 pm

For a daily driver I don't think I need 'flat-out'. I'm just looking for a cheap $500-750 suspension improvement/solution.

I don't play too much boy-racer and when my girlfriend buys this car when I go into the military, I KNOW she won't. H&R Is a name I've heard of, so I'll check those out :D

Edit: Rears are out of stock... meh, I guess I'll be waiting.

-orders suspension kit-

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