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#Jamal's blanket suspension recommendations

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 1:17 am 
Second Gear
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:42 am
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Location: Bothell,WA
I am running the "Stage 2" setup listed above and I would say after driving on it for about 6-7 months now that I love it. The car corners really good and the ride quality isn't too harsh. Its' a little bumpy but very managable. I just wish I could get the front a tad lower and the rear a tad higher as it looks like my car has some negative rake going on due to the front fender around the wheels is cut higher than in the back. But since I don't have any money, I can deal with it for now.

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'92 Legacy Wagon Winestone, 265K on body, ~100K on engine, 5spd, kyb gr2's w/ whiteline ground control springs, sti top hats, hatch spoiler to be added soon...


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:57 pm 
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klaxed wrote:
I just wish I could get the front a tad lower and the rear a tad higher as it LOOKS like my car has some negative rake going on due to the front fender around the wheels is cut higher than in the back.

So now you wanna screw up the handling on your car for looks? :shock:

The front fenders are cut higher so your wheels can turn and compress at the same time...

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:41 pm 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:15 am
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Location: University Place, WA
Brat4by4 wrote:
klaxed wrote:
I just wish I could get the front a tad lower and the rear a tad higher as it LOOKS like my car has some negative rake going on due to the front fender around the wheels is cut higher than in the back.

So now you wanna screw up the handling on your car for looks? :shock:

The front fenders are cut higher so your wheels can turn and compress at the same time...


But what if he got an Anti-Lift Kit, too? That way the front end wouldn't compress as much.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:49 pm 
Vendor
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Actually and ALK is an anti-anti-lift kit. It increases dive and lift, noticeably. The better mod would be the Whiteline roll center adjustment kit. It doesn't keep you out of the bumpstops or increase travel but it will improve the camber curve.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:42 pm 
Fifth Gear
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Right. But Brat4by4 is saying that if he lowers the front and raises the back that he'll screw up his handling because the car will basically want to dive too far when cornering and braking.

So wouldn't an ALK stop the car from diving around corners and when braking?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:58 pm 
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Brat4x4 is saying that if you lower the car too far you run into the problems I listed at the bottom of the last page:

-Out of bump travel
-poor camber curve
-larger roll couple


Last edited by jamal on Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:02 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:59 pm 
Fourth Gear
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:04 pm
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Location: Seattle, WA
ALK doesn't do much on corners but is for straight ahead launch stablity and under braking.

This info might be helpful on the ALK.

http://www.whiteline.com.au/articles/Ef ... 0ALK_b.pdf

Check out the graphs - I hope I'm reading this right and it "decreases" dive and lift, hence the name...

I'm intregued about these Front Roll Center Adjustment Kits? Never heard of them, Can someone post a link to a review? Or a picture of how they go on the car?

Are these new?


AW

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:01 am 
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RCA review:
viewtopic.php?t=33918

Yeah they've only been out for a couple of months. If I didn't have brand new ball joints I'd pick some up.

Yeah, check the table in that article on page 4: It completely removes the Anti-dive geometry and creates pro-lift characteristics.

Thanks a lot for posting that by the way.


Last edited by jamal on Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:20 am 
Fourth Gear
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Ah, so it is Anti Lift but not Anti Dive - but to answer the question before, the ALK doesn't really apply to cornering loads?

Yes, just found this thread. on the FRCAK.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=1155654

Very new and very confusing since I can find the part number but not that same picture on the Whiteline web site. This might be a redesign???

KCA313

Also, Harman is offering these on that site for $163 but don't know about shipping...

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ?t=1424644

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:25 am 
Fourth Gear
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Location: Seattle, WA
O.k here's how the Front Roll CAK works right from the horses mouth - started life as an EVO part but should apply to our cars as well...

Detailed Whiteline write up...

http://www.suspensionparts.info/showthread.php?t=999

Online review summary...

"... Tests on Project EVO showed that raising the front roll-centre resulted in a substantial increase to front roll resistance and a significant reduction in suspension compression of the outside front wheel during cornering (less roll).

This improves weight distribution, maintains a better camber angle and ultimately improves front grip. The overall outcome is significantly reduced understeer through reduced front wheel compression, as well as improved steering feel, steering precision and vehicle stability...."

http://news.hspn.com/articles/1024/1/Wh ... Page1.html

Whiteline "Fitting Instructions"...

http://www.globalperformanceparts.com/f ... KCA313.pdf

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93SS 5MT White, TD05-16G, TMIC, 3"Turboback, Magnaflow, Alu Rad, H&R Sports, AGX struts, F/R STBs, Whiteline Sways, ALK+Endlinks, Odyssey 925, AC delete, Evo8 Recaros, Sparco 4p, 3.9 LSD, Hellas+air horns, IPD short throw, 99RSrims, s03's


Last edited by Adam West on Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:52 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:29 am 
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Adam West wrote:
Ah, so it is Anti Lift but not Anti Dive - but to answer the question before, the ALK doesn't really apply to cornering loads?


It's both pro-lift and pro-dive. it removes the "anti-" geometry to soften up the front end. I guess that particular aspect doesn't have much effect on cornering but the harder bushing and added caster certainly do make a difference when you're not braking or accelerating. Overall it makes a HUGE difference, especially powering out of a turn, and I'm very glad I bought one.

There are a few versions. KCA359 is the same as KCA319 but includes subframe spacers for an 02+ Impreza. There are also harder and softer versions of it.

Man you're dragging up boatloads of good info and links.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:38 am 
Fourth Gear
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:04 pm
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Location: Seattle, WA
Yeah, this is going to take me days to grock. I'm just printing stuff out to read later...

Your "blanket" is growing too. Seems like this new part really might make a big difference in the understeer monsters that are our cars.

Perhaps a good first mod to keep the car out of the WY for inexperience drivers?...

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93SS 5MT White, TD05-16G, TMIC, 3"Turboback, Magnaflow, Alu Rad, H&R Sports, AGX struts, F/R STBs, Whiteline Sways, ALK+Endlinks, Odyssey 925, AC delete, Evo8 Recaros, Sparco 4p, 3.9 LSD, Hellas+air horns, IPD short throw, 99RSrims, s03's


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:36 am 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:15 am
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Oh ok. I understand how it works now. Thanks for clearing that up guys.

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2000 Audi S4 - 2.7L Twin-turbo, 6 Speed

evolutionmovement wrote:
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:50 am 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:56 am
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Location: Orlando, FL
Ahem... Can this be stickied?? Very useful info here.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:00 am 
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I think we might start to collect too many threads up there.

A threads of note sticky would be good though. I'm working on a thread to clear up all the differences between 90-91, 92-94, and the wrx stuff since it's been coming up lately and it seems some of the stuff we'd previously thought was wrong.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:04 am 
Fifth Gear
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Cool... the threads of note may be a better way but this ought to be linked some where!

I'm going with GC Coilover Sleeves and AGXs...

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:26 am 
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There's some good info floating around iwsti and nasioc about lengths and rates posted by stretchjse.

Legacy294 doesn't seem to like the sleeves but I personally can't think of a better option.

For on-road handling you need quite a bit of roll stiffness to keep the camber curve in check. I think the 10k/8k spring rates and 27mm swaybars I occasionally see is overkill, but I'd be willing to go stiffer than what's available in the lowering springs out there.


Anyway, the more I learn, the more I realize I don't know. Of course, if there was an easy answer to any of this stuff a lot of race car engineers would be out of work.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:04 pm 
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I added a sticky compilation thread which included all the existing stickies and this thread. Please feel free to add to it.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:27 am 
First Gear
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 9:42 am
Posts: 55
Location: Monroe Township, NJ
Maybe I missed it, but can someone give me a part number on the "whiteline control" springs? I think that + GR-2 + roll camber adjustment kit will seriously spruce up my car's 'worn out' handling, floaty ass and help ease some of the car's natural FWD understeer.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2008 1:29 am 
First Gear
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 9:42 am
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Location: Monroe Township, NJ
http://www.maperformance.com/store/prod ... 262&page=1

Are these the springs?

Will I have any problems mounting them?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:27 am 
First Gear
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 9:42 am
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Location: Monroe Township, NJ
wow, you guys are really helpful :roll:


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:30 am 
Vendor
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well exuuuuse me, princess.

I hadn't noticed your post.

There are springs that specifically fit your car from whiteline, and those are the ones you want. Using WRX springs is going to oddly affect ride height. I've been meaning to go through and post it all but haven't had time.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:04 pm 
First Gear
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 9:42 am
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Location: Monroe Township, NJ
Sorry, but riding on the old suspension for a month was starting to get to me :P

(Well, that and I'm used to busy forums with same-day responses)

I guess I'll have to search harder for these springs.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:52 pm 
Fourth Gear
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 10:04 pm
Posts: 1322
Location: Seattle, WA
Try here in order of appearance...

1.
http://www.boxer4racing.com/ (call and talk to Dale)

2.
http://www.globalperformanceparts.com/s ... 5_141.html

3.
http://www.pdm-racing.com/products/subaru_corner.html

Good luck.

BTW, H&R springs are easier to source. They just don't have a "flat-out" option.

www.get-primitive.com (call and speak with Paul)

AW

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Last edited by Adam West on Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 31, 2008 8:54 pm 
First Gear
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 9:42 am
Posts: 55
Location: Monroe Township, NJ
For a daily driver I don't think I need 'flat-out'. I'm just looking for a cheap $500-750 suspension improvement/solution.

I don't play too much boy-racer and when my girlfriend buys this car when I go into the military, I KNOW she won't. H&R Is a name I've heard of, so I'll check those out :D

Edit: Rears are out of stock... meh, I guess I'll be waiting.

-orders suspension kit-


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