suspension bushing questions

[speezly]

So I am in the middle of an overhaul on my suspension and am in need of some opinions on bushing selection, and the topic of rubber vs poly. Lets hear favorite brands, setups, etc...

To give some background on what i have done, AGXs with H&R gc Impreza springs and whiteline Comp-C offset strut mounts, Eibach camber bolts, Whiteline steering rack bushings and a 19mm Outback FSB are the only actual upgrades so far. I will also be adding a stock RSB to my sway bar-less L model, but i plan on swapping it for a larger Otback bar as soon as funds allow. I have new Moog balljoints and inner/outer tie rods and rack boots. I have heard good and bad things about P/U bushings. I have P/u shifter bushings and i love the way they feel, but that is about it. My trans mount and crossmember bushings are STi group n rubber.

what are some of your personal preferences for FSB mount and endlink bushings? Whiteline, prothane and powerflex all have poly bushings for our cars, and rallispec has a complete kit of STi group n bushings for $610. Any input is greatly appreciated. For now, this is what i am thinking about going with....

OEM endlinks with poly bushings

Poly sway bar mount bushings

Poly control arm bushings (ALK?)

Poly trailing arm and lateral link bushings

I have read on here that rubber FSB endlink bushing are the way to go, as they allow more flex to the setup. Is this really beneficial over poly up front? Another question is how hard will it be for me to install the poly control arm, lateral link and trailing arm bushings? I do not have a press, and i had a bitch of a time just getting the shifter bushings in. Also, since I am pretty much tapped out on funds for a little bit, how bad would it be to leave the original bushings on the control arms with the 1.8" drop and the stiffer AGXs? the stock suspension was at about 330k as far as mileage goes, and had been riding on blown struts and bad tie rods/ balljoints for at least 100k of those. The bushings dont look to be worn to the point they are no longer functional. also on the topic of control arm bushings, what would be the benefits of offset bushings like the ones Whiteline has listed on their site? I believe they have the regular ALKs, race ALKs, and two different types of offset ones. Thanks in advance and i look forward to reading your replies.

[Legacy777]

Here are a couple of my thoughts.

The stock rubber suspension bushings should be if they're not torn. They may not be as stiff, but should be fine to reuse.

The hardened rubber STi bushings are an unbelievable bitch to install! Trust me, you don't want to install them. Just removing the stock rubber bushings sucks. Go for a split poly bushing that installs easily once the old bushing is out. Removing the stock metal collared rubber bushings are not fun and for me have required using a reciprocating saw and/or hack saw to get the rubber part out and then the metal collar.

As far as the end links go, I personally wouldn't be too concerned. The cast ones tend to be stiffer than the steel ones....but will you feel a difference other than in your pocket book....probably not. So go with what fits your budget as it will most likely be an improvement of what came from the factory.

[oldscoobyturbo]

I'll 2nd the split poly bushings for most of the points on the car. Sway bar links with poly bushings are the way to go for a firmer tight handling ride. Bonus is the links install easily with just ramps.
You can press out the bushings on any part that comes off the car like control arms. I would not attempt most bushings without a hydraulic press to assist. I would stick with the rubber engine and tranny mounts to keep the Noise Vibration Harshness down.
Been a fan of the moog tie rod and ball joints on my non lowered cars as they have grease fittings.
I too like Whiteline suspension and have stuck with them for many cars/years

[jamal]

I have poly pretty much everywhere - ALK, swaybar bushings, endlinks, rear trailing arms and lateral links. I went with Turn in Concepts bushings for the rear end because they are good parts, easy to install (once you get the old ones out, I used what is basically a threaded rod and washers for most), and pretty reasonably priced. I even pulled a bushing out last year to check on the wear and it still looked new after a couple years. Car handles very well, but you do get extra noise transmitted inside the cabin.

The ALK give you a little more caster, doesn't flex as much as the stock bushing, and removes some of the anti-geometry in the front suspension, effectively softening it up to improve traction. One of my favorite mods of all time.

Bunch of pictures of all the parts and the work in this gallery:
http://jamalb.net/gallery/v/98lgt/suspension/

Also I'm a dealer for all this stuff.

[Legacy777]

Jamal,

Would you care to share your thoughts around the ALK. I've been on the edge about the ALK for many years now. I may be over thinking things though. I know it removes anti-geometry in the suspension, and while this can help in certain situations this can also promote dive. I don't know if I'm making more of an issue about that, especially if you have stiffer springs. Anyway, I ended up going with the STi hardened bushing for the transverse bushing. I'm not sure if the ALK bushing would be that noticable or not with my suspension setup.

[jamal]

Yeah, you do lose the anti-geometry, but there is not really a whole lot of it in the suspension. I think the white paper mentions something like 5% of the compressive force from braking is resisted by the geometry, and slightly more to counter lift.

Personally I didn't notice a whole lot more brake dive after installing the part, but I already had stiffer suspension. The benefit of removing the anti-geometry is that you have more front end grip in most situations. The thing that shocked me the most was pulling a u-turn across a big wide street, putting my foot down, and just having the front end hook up and keep turning. Before the ALK it felt vague and would start to push in the same situation.

I think if you still have the original struts and springs from 1992, an ALK should not be your first purchase. Not so much because of the slight amount of extra dive, but because everything else is toast.

[Legacy777]

Ok, thanks for the feedback!

Well, if I'm itching for something to do on the car I may give them a try

[James614]

The thing that shocked me the most was pulling a u-turn across a big wide street, putting my foot down, and just having the front end hook up and keep turning. Before the ALK it felt vague and would start to push in the same situation,

I have heard about the noticeable increase in front traction available for acceleration in tight turns from a few other people, that alone makes me want the ALK as thats one of our cars' biggest weak points handling-wise IMO.

[jamal]

Yeah, that bushing/part does a lot. Think about the forces that go into it when you are cornering/braking hard. The rear of the control arm gets squished in and back, and you lose a lot of camber and caster when you need it the most. The stock geometry isn't ideal, but also not that terrible, as long as it actually stays where it is supposed to be. When the top mount, bushings, tire, and even hub/bearing flex you quickly get to a place that is really far from where you want to be.

It's amazing how far just an ALK, swaybars, and a good alignment will get you. My car does not understeer. I drove it up the gravel road to the ski hill recently and actually thought it was a bit too loose.

[speezly]

An ALK is definitely on my list. Jamal, I pretty much learned everything about legacy suspensions from your posts here. I wouldn't be halfway to where I am without your knowledge. I'll try to take some pics of my setup when I pull it in the garage next time.

[jamal]

Glad I could help. If you have any questions about anything you can send a pm or email (peter@functionauto.com). And when you're ready to get an ALK let me know too because I can probably save you a few bucks.

[speezly]

Sweet. I usually get all my whiteline stuff from All Aspects here in VA, but I will definitely check with you when the time comes. I'm also very interested in the Turn In Concept bushings as well