Detailed AWD & 5MT Swap Write-up completed
Moderators: Helpinators, Moderators
Detailed AWD & 5MT Swap Write-up completed
Well....it's done. Everything and anything you wanted to know about the conversion should be in here.
Michael, thanks again for proof reading it.
Let me know if you have comments or questions.
http://www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/swap/swap.html
Michael, thanks again for proof reading it.
Let me know if you have comments or questions.
http://www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/swap/swap.html
Last edited by Legacy777 on Mon Nov 15, 2004 7:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
-
- Vikash
- Posts: 12517
- Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 2:13 am
- Location: USA, OH, Cleveland (sometimes visiting DC though)
- Contact:
Josh, you're awesome.
This writeup is gonna be such a good reference.
In the picture of the clutch line, I notice yours actually looks different from mine, despite having the same part number... It looks like yours ends in a little rigid rube with the 90-degree elbow on it. Mine has a swivel joint that becomes rigid when you tighten the AN flare. Weird.
This writeup is gonna be such a good reference.
In the picture of the clutch line, I notice yours actually looks different from mine, despite having the same part number... It looks like yours ends in a little rigid rube with the 90-degree elbow on it. Mine has a swivel joint that becomes rigid when you tighten the AN flare. Weird.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
Thanks guys.
Vikash, so the 90-deg elbow swivels? I don't honestly remember what mine does. What pic is it?
Also, just wanted to get your feedback on this paragraph. Mainly the end about the ECU feeding a source voltage as well.
"The automatic's wiring is actually backwards. The automatic cars have the gear selector indicator on the dash. The neutral circuit goes like this. Power is supplied to the combination meter. It's then routed through the bulb that displays the "N" on the dash, and ties into the wiring going to pin 1 of the B15 connector. Pin 1 of the B15 connector is also tied to the ECU & TCU. Pin 4 of the B15 connector is connected to ground. When the inhibitor switch is moved to the neutral position, the circuit is completed to ground. When this happens, current will flow through the bulb in the combination meter, and the bulb will light up. The ECU again supplies a voltage at the neutral switch pin. When the circuit is grounded, the voltage reading at pin 10 of the B58 connector will be 0v."
thanks
Vikash, so the 90-deg elbow swivels? I don't honestly remember what mine does. What pic is it?
Also, just wanted to get your feedback on this paragraph. Mainly the end about the ECU feeding a source voltage as well.
"The automatic's wiring is actually backwards. The automatic cars have the gear selector indicator on the dash. The neutral circuit goes like this. Power is supplied to the combination meter. It's then routed through the bulb that displays the "N" on the dash, and ties into the wiring going to pin 1 of the B15 connector. Pin 1 of the B15 connector is also tied to the ECU & TCU. Pin 4 of the B15 connector is connected to ground. When the inhibitor switch is moved to the neutral position, the circuit is completed to ground. When this happens, current will flow through the bulb in the combination meter, and the bulb will light up. The ECU again supplies a voltage at the neutral switch pin. When the circuit is grounded, the voltage reading at pin 10 of the B58 connector will be 0v."
thanks
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
-
- Vikash
- Posts: 12517
- Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 2:13 am
- Location: USA, OH, Cleveland (sometimes visiting DC though)
- Contact:
This picture: http://www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/ima ... hline2.jpg
Mine looks almost exactly like the figure on Baker Precision's page: http://www.bakerprecision.com/earls19.htm
Let me review that information and get back to you about the paragraph.
Mine looks almost exactly like the figure on Baker Precision's page: http://www.bakerprecision.com/earls19.htm
Let me review that information and get back to you about the paragraph.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
hmm....that's weird....they must have changed it.
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
Good stuff. I feel like i did a hack job compared to yours, though you had the whole ordeal of going to AWD as well.
Legacy Central
2001 Legacy Outback Wagon | 2005 OB XT LTD | 1997 Legacy Outback Limited | 1998 Legacy L Wagon | 2000 GT Limited | 93 Legacy Touring Wagon 5MT | 90 Legacy L+
2001 Legacy Outback Wagon | 2005 OB XT LTD | 1997 Legacy Outback Limited | 1998 Legacy L Wagon | 2000 GT Limited | 93 Legacy Touring Wagon 5MT | 90 Legacy L+
Thanks Dave.
You did yours in a weekend though didn't you? I don't think I could've pulled that off, even with just the tranny swap. The pedals took an entire day to put in.
You did yours in a weekend though didn't you? I don't think I could've pulled that off, even with just the tranny swap. The pedals took an entire day to put in.
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
Mine was done in 3 days by basically one guy. He's been working on Subies and Saabs for decades and is familiar with everything on the mechanical side. He's probably dropped more trannies than i can imagine.
Your writeup was also a bit more comprehensive than mine, even on just the tranny section. I suppose myself and lex sorta paved the way, but i'm glad to see even more info out there for people to use.
Your writeup was also a bit more comprehensive than mine, even on just the tranny section. I suppose myself and lex sorta paved the way, but i'm glad to see even more info out there for people to use.
Legacy Central
2001 Legacy Outback Wagon | 2005 OB XT LTD | 1997 Legacy Outback Limited | 1998 Legacy L Wagon | 2000 GT Limited | 93 Legacy Touring Wagon 5MT | 90 Legacy L+
2001 Legacy Outback Wagon | 2005 OB XT LTD | 1997 Legacy Outback Limited | 1998 Legacy L Wagon | 2000 GT Limited | 93 Legacy Touring Wagon 5MT | 90 Legacy L+
That was one of my goals from this swap was to get as much detailed info out there for others to use, or at least see what's involved in doing a swap like this.
Also, I've seen very little detailed documentation on the electrical side of things. Which is why I went into pretty good detail about everything.
Also, I've seen very little detailed documentation on the electrical side of things. Which is why I went into pretty good detail about everything.
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
-
- Vikash
- Posts: 12517
- Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 2:13 am
- Location: USA, OH, Cleveland (sometimes visiting DC though)
- Contact:
I don't know for sure whether or not it's correct to say that "The ECU again supplies a voltage at the neutral switch pin."Legacy777 wrote:The automatic's wiring is actually backwards. The automatic cars have the gear selector indicator on the dash. The neutral circuit goes like this. Power is supplied to the combination meter. It's then routed through the bulb that displays the "N" on the dash, and ties into the wiring going to pin 1 of the B15 connector. Pin 1 of the B15 connector is also tied to the ECU & TCU. Pin 4 of the B15 connector is connected to ground. When the inhibitor switch is moved to the neutral position, the circuit is completed to ground. When this happens, current will flow through the bulb in the combination meter, and the bulb will light up. The ECU again supplies a voltage at the neutral switch pin. When the circuit is grounded, the voltage reading at pin 10 of the B58 connector will be 0v.
From what I can see in the diagrams, if the ECU does have a pull-up resistor there, it has to be providing a voltage not significantly below the voltage on the other side of the neutral light on the dash; otherwise it would be running a little current through the neutral light filament at all times.
Maybe it does, though... the diode in the gauge cluster could be there to provide a little bit of a voltage drop to make sure this thing works.
If it doesn't have a pull-up resistor then the neutral switch would cease working once the bulb blew out, which seems stupid.
So I guess what you have there is probably right.
Do we know for sure yet if 1990 and maybe 1991 models actually have the ECU sense the clutch switch?
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
Your logic is what I finally came up with and why I wrote it the way I did. It could probably be written a little more elegently....but I think it's ok for now.
Are you talking about for the ECU sensing the cruise clutch switch and that note I made about the cruise clutch switch tieing into park pin on the ECU?
Are you talking about for the ECU sensing the cruise clutch switch and that note I made about the cruise clutch switch tieing into park pin on the ECU?
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
I don't know....that is something I'd need someone with a factory installed 5MT & select monitor or your scan tool to check for me.
I'm pretty sure I checked the info, and the 92-94 diagrams were the same.
ok.....I just relooked at that diagram. The switch is a normally open switch. With the clutch not depressed, that switch is going to be closed all the time. So according to that diagram, the ECU would be receiving a park signal all the time the clutch was not depressed. It's got to be a misprint.
I'm pretty sure I checked the info, and the 92-94 diagrams were the same.
ok.....I just relooked at that diagram. The switch is a normally open switch. With the clutch not depressed, that switch is going to be closed all the time. So according to that diagram, the ECU would be receiving a park signal all the time the clutch was not depressed. It's got to be a misprint.
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
-
- Vikash
- Posts: 12517
- Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 2:13 am
- Location: USA, OH, Cleveland (sometimes visiting DC though)
- Contact:
Hm, okay. Yeah, I think you're right.
There's almost no question in my mind that it's a misprint -- what would they do on cars that didn't have cruise control? -- but I was just wondering if maybe in 1990 and 1991 they did hook the clutch switch up somehow. There's definitely a lot of confusion in here.
There's almost no question in my mind that it's a misprint -- what would they do on cars that didn't have cruise control? -- but I was just wondering if maybe in 1990 and 1991 they did hook the clutch switch up somehow. There's definitely a lot of confusion in here.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
From my experience with the FSM's.....there is a lot of information in them.....and about half of it is incorrect....
So you just have to use it as a reference, and verify the information, or at least see if it makes sense.
I wonder if there was some issues with translation between japanese to english. In a few of the tech descriptions, it sounded kind of funny, like the translation....(this is assuming they were written in japanese first) wasn't as good as it could be.
So you just have to use it as a reference, and verify the information, or at least see if it makes sense.
I wonder if there was some issues with translation between japanese to english. In a few of the tech descriptions, it sounded kind of funny, like the translation....(this is assuming they were written in japanese first) wasn't as good as it could be.
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
-
- Vikash
- Posts: 12517
- Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2002 2:13 am
- Location: USA, OH, Cleveland (sometimes visiting DC though)
- Contact:
At least some parts were definitely translated from Japanese; if you look for them you can even find places where they mixed up their Rs and Ls.
And it's pretty obvious that a lot of it is written in the kind of grammar you usually find when Japanese is translated to English.
I wouldn't say half of it is incorrect, but I definitely agree that you have to take it all with a grain of salt. It's still the best resource we have for most topics.
And it's pretty obvious that a lot of it is written in the kind of grammar you usually find when Japanese is translated to English.
I wouldn't say half of it is incorrect, but I definitely agree that you have to take it all with a grain of salt. It's still the best resource we have for most topics.
"Just reading vrg3's convoluted, information-packed posts made me feel better all over again." -- subyluvr2212
Yeah....it is the best resource we have.
I like my 90 FSM's because they were used by a mechanic. They are "dirty" they have been updated with new info. There's sections where he taped in the new info over the old stuff. So I like to think the 90 fsm's info is more correct then my 92-94 set because those are brand spanking new.
I like my 90 FSM's because they were used by a mechanic. They are "dirty" they have been updated with new info. There's sections where he taped in the new info over the old stuff. So I like to think the 90 fsm's info is more correct then my 92-94 set because those are brand spanking new.
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
yeah.....I don't like how they combined sections 2 & 3 and 4 & 5
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
-
- Lurker-King
- Posts: 1050
- Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 8:36 pm
- Location: Moncton NB Canada
- Contact:
Well, while you 2 are chitchatting, I must say Josh, that was quite the swap...
Your entire rear end is practically new.
The 5800$ price tag deffinately makes me want to look for a pristine 5mt turbo when My auto dies though.
Even though I love the idea of doing a swap, I think I'm too faint of heart for all that.
Excellent read though.
Your entire rear end is practically new.
The 5800$ price tag deffinately makes me want to look for a pristine 5mt turbo when My auto dies though.
Even though I love the idea of doing a swap, I think I'm too faint of heart for all that.
Excellent read though.
R I P-------- 91 Turbo 4EAT --------R I P
Thanks quickdrive. The price could have been reduced by a quite a bit had I not rebuilt the tranny, or wanted a separate turbo legacy tranny, and not upgraded to performance parts. But that's no fun
It's an awesome learning experience, but yeah can be quite a dawnting task.
It's an awesome learning experience, but yeah can be quite a dawnting task.
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
-
- quasi-mod-o
- Posts: 6000
- Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 7:06 pm
- Location: Tampa, FL
Josh, out of curiosity, did you leave the original wheel bearings in the rear hubs you put in? I didn't see anything about you replacing them.
Me, I woulda had new bearings pressed in...
Me, I woulda had new bearings pressed in...
2000 Subaru Legacy B4 RSK
"Der Wahnsinn ist nur eine schmale Brücke/die Ufer sind Vernunft und Trieb"
*Formerly DerFahrer*
@entirelyturbo on social media, including Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok
"Der Wahnsinn ist nur eine schmale Brücke/die Ufer sind Vernunft und Trieb"
*Formerly DerFahrer*
@entirelyturbo on social media, including Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok
I left the original bearings in. I was looking into replacing them. I talked with buckner, and he said they hardly ever replace legacy rear wheel bearings.
I checked them out. Everything spun well, seals looked fine. So left them alone.
I checked them out. Everything spun well, seals looked fine. So left them alone.
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm