»  BC-BF Legacy Discussion »  Drivetrain
#6spd Swap Details Thread

Custom Search
Login | Register




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: 6spd Swap Details Thread
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:41 pm 
Site Admin
Site Admin
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:37 am
Posts: 27337
Location: Houston, Tx
I'm intending this thread to be a collection of all the various little details associated with swapping a 6spd into a first gen Legacy. It'll also be a good check for me to make sure I'm not missing anything.

Dimensions

I took some dimensions yesterday just to make sure everything appears like it's going to line up. So these dimensions are kind of just an FYI for others in the future.

Distance between trans/engine mating face to the first bolt hole center line of trans mount ~ 21.5 inches.
Note: both the 5spd & 6spd were the same, (hence being able to use the same trans subframe).

Overall 6spd length from trans/engine mating face to the end of the rear drive output surround - 34.5 inches.

Overall 5spd length from trans/engine mating face to the end of the rear drive output surround - 32 inches.

Length of the 5mt front driveline from the end of the input shaft to the center driveline flange – 29.5 inches
Image

Length of the auto front driveline from the end of the input shaft to the center driveline flange – 27 inches
Image

Length of the 5mt rear driveline from flange to flange – 33.5 inches
Image

Length of the newer style auto rear driveline from flange to flange – 31 inches
Image

In the comment above and in my pictures I reference the "newer style" auto driveline. This is due to the fact the new rear diffs are a little longer than the ones found in the first gen Legacy, and as such the rear driveline lengths are shorter.

Note: I've updated the numbers above based on my measurements of the transmissions and drivelines outside of the car. Everything looks good and the length differences work out perfect.


Parts

This is a list of various parts I have picked up for the 6spd conversion and some notes regarding them.

Driveline – As noted above, I’m intending to use the front section from the automatic Legacy driveline with the rear section from MT Legacy driveline.

Transmission subframe – Again, as noted above the transmission subframe is the same between the 5spd & 6spd.

Rear diff & axles – I’m keeping all the stock Legacy rear end.

Lower flywheel cover plate - The plates are different between the 5spd & 6spd, so you'll need to get the 6spd. I'll take some pictures comparing the two, but here's a thread on NASIOC with more info.

Lower flywheel cover plate - Qty. (1) - 30216AA040

Pic of both below (5spd top & 6spd bottom). Note the larger bulge/area for the presssure plate to clear.
Image

Clutch & pressure plate – I’ll be running the 6spd clutch & pressure plate. I decided to stick with the stock Subaru flywheel, clutch, & pressure plate. Driving with a LW flywheel in traffic isn't fun. Additionally, I decided to go with the stock Subaru clutch because of complaints of decel rattles with the non-Subaru Exedy unit. More info can be found in this thread on NASIOC.

Here's a note and picture regarding the alignment of the flywheel & pressure plate. The dots on them should be aligned 120 deg. or more apart from each other. Those spots are areas of residual unbalance.

Image

Image

Throw out bearing, clutch release lever, & clutch slave cylinder – The throw out bearing is the same between the turbo Legacy/WRX & 6spd. The clutch release lever is different and the 6spd lever must be used. I'm going to try and keep the turbo Legacy clutch slave cylinder.

Here is a picture of the 6spd (left) and 5spd (right) clutch release lever for comparison.
Image


Starter – the 6spd starters are slightly different in depth than the 5spd starters, so you’ll need to pick up a 6spd starter as well.

Front axles – you can run the Legacy front axles by getting axle stubs that were on the early 2004 MY 6spd’s. I’ve listed the seals as well in case you want to replace them as well. To replace the seals, you'll need to remove the bearing caps. More info can be found in this thread.

6spd axle stubs - Qty. (2) - 38415AA110
Axle stub circlips - Qty. (2) - 805329010
LH axle seal - Qty. (1) - 806730042
RH axle seal - Qty. (1) - 806730041

Drain plug gaskets – below are the two drain plug gasket part numbers. If you have a 6spd with a sump, there will be another drain plug and gasket.

6spd drain plug gasket - Qty. 1 - 803926070
6spd oil sump drain plug gasket - Qty. 1 - 803916080

Trans mount – The 5spd & 6spd trans mounts are different. The 6spd is a little bit shorter in height. If you want the hardened mount, most of what everyone will be selling is the SPT trans mount. Its part # is D1010FE000. It is not the STi trans mount, its part # will start with ST, but from the research I’ve done, they should be the same hardness. This mount is a little different than the 5spd mount. It is not covered with a shiny black coating. It’s more a dull rubber, like the stock mount. Also, the exterior of the mount appears to have a “softer” durometer rubber and the inside is supposed to be stiffer. It’s a little hard to prove all this, but I feel confident in the research I’ve done and people I’ve talked to.

Speed sensor – If you are swapping this into a US first gen Legacy then you’ll likely just unscrew the electrical sensor and install the mechanical one to hook up to the cable. However, if you’re installing the 6spd into another Subaru model with electronic speedometer, you’ll need the plug for the stock sensor (or you could swap your stock trans speed sensor). There appears to be an extension harness you can buy that goes between the speed sensor and chassis harness. The part # for this harness is 81881FA010. This thread on NASIOC has more info. Here are pics of the stock 3-pin speed sensor.

Reverse & neutral switch electrical – The 6spd reverse & neutral switch connectors coming out of the transmission have the same connectors as the 5spd, but are shorter than the 6spd harness. So I depinned the 6spd connector, did the same thing to the 5spd connector and repinned the 6spd wires to the 4-pin 5spd connector.

Center diff electrical – I depinned the wires from the stock 6spd connector and used a clutch master cylinder low level connector and a chassis side ABS wheel sensor connector (you could use an ABS wheel sensor and chassis side harness if you have one) and repinned those two wires. I will be making a plug & play harness to the existing AT plugs to bring the wiring in the cabin.

Here are two pictures of the final connector/plug setup.
Image
Image

DCCD controller – I’m planning to run the aftermarket DCCD controller from DCCDPro.com. When ordering the controller, make sure to let them know that your TPS voltage is reversed, assuming you are still running the older style throttle positioning sensors.

As a note for installation of the DCCD controller, I found that there was not a great location behind the dash for the controller. In addition, if you install the controller behind the dash the standard length of wires will not be long enough for the G sensor to reach the required installation spot near the e-brake handle. I decided to install the controller under the center console where the automatic seat belt brackets were located. Since I converted to the manual seat belts, these were not be used. I had to modify the brackets to get the controller fit. More details and pictures can be found in my build thread. Another possible location could be under the passenger seat carpet where the ABS computer is normally located. If you don't have the ABS computer, this could be a good spot. If you do have the ABS computer, you still may be able to squeeze it in there.

If you choose to install the controller behind the dash, make sure to request some additional length be added to the G sensor wiring, and the control knob wiring (if you plan to install them in the blank next to the e-brake handle.


Modifications

Starter – Since the newer motors have an 8-bolt setup vs. the older 4-bolt setup, you'll need to do something for the lower starter mount hole. The best option is to use an M14x1.5 bolt aprox 40-45 mm long. You'll need to tap the lower bolt hole on the trans and drill out the lower bolt hole on the starter to 9/16". More info can be found in this thread.

Pressure plate – There are three more bolts holding on the 6spd pressure plate, so you'll need to get these as well.

Exhaust hanger - I'm assuming some modification will need to be done, but I'm not sure what will be needed at this time.

Rubber shifter mount - The 6spd mount only has four mounting holes vs. the original Legacy six mounting holes. You will need to mark and cut or punch the extra holes. I used a paper hole punch. It mostly worked. I ended up bending the hole punch so don't use your wife/gf's good hole punch for this.

Here's a picture of the mount with the punched hole.
Image


I’ll update the thread as I get to the swap and if others have additional comments to add.

_________________
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


Profile  Offline
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 6spd Swap Details Thread
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:59 pm 
Site Admin
Site Admin
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:37 am
Posts: 27337
Location: Houston, Tx
I thought I'd update this thread with some info on the stock 6spd flywheel, clutch disc, & pressure plate weights.

Clutch Disc - 3.75 lb
Image

Pressure Plate - 13.00 lb
Image

Flywheel - 19.60 lb
Image

Clutch Disc, Pressure Plate, & Flywheel - 36.25 lb
Image


Note: I know there is a 0.10 lb discrepency between the sum of the individual weights and the total weight of all the components. I attribute that to rounding errors with the scale. I trust the total weight probably more than the sum of the individual weights.

_________________
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


Profile  Offline
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 6spd Swap Details Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:28 am 
Moderator
Moderator
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:52 am
Posts: 4774
Location: Des Moines, Wa
I'm curious to see how that weight compares to the 5-speed stuff.

_________________
1992 Legacy SS 5mt, build in progress


Profile  Offline
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 6spd Swap Details Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:45 am 
Fourth Gear
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:58 am
Posts: 1030
Location: Plaistow,NH
what exactly do the teeth do on the flywheel?

_________________
Blue 94GT dead and steadily parting out.
Silver 93 Fwd N/A sedan undergoing repairs
93 Winestone TW project
92 SS scrapped by my landlord...


Profile  Offline
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 6spd Swap Details Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:50 am 
Moderator
Moderator
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 7:52 am
Posts: 4774
Location: Des Moines, Wa
The starter engages them when you turn the key. After you stop turning the key, the teeth in the starter retract, so it's not engaged except when starting.

_________________
1992 Legacy SS 5mt, build in progress


Profile  Offline
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 6spd Swap Details Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:05 am 
Fourth Gear
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:58 am
Posts: 1030
Location: Plaistow,NH
never knew where the starter actually engaged to start the engine, either that, or i totally derped and forgot. But I do actually know how the starter works so I guess im not "completely" retarded

_________________
Blue 94GT dead and steadily parting out.
Silver 93 Fwd N/A sedan undergoing repairs
93 Winestone TW project
92 SS scrapped by my landlord...


Profile  Offline
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 6spd Swap Details Thread
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:16 pm 
Site Admin
Site Admin
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:37 am
Posts: 27337
Location: Houston, Tx
mike-tracy wrote:
I'm curious to see how that weight compares to the 5-speed stuff.


Yeah I'll be weighing the 5spd stuff when I take it out. They are WRX components, and while I'm using an Exedy LW flywheel the other stuff is all stock components.

_________________
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


Profile  Offline
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 6spd Swap Details Thread
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:07 pm 
Site Admin
Site Admin
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:37 am
Posts: 27337
Location: Houston, Tx
I found out this past weekend to change the axle stub seals that the bearing end caps have to be removed....which sucks! I need to order new outer o-rings and then will give it a shot removing the end caps and replacing the seals.

Has anyone done this before?

_________________
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


Profile  Offline
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 6spd Swap Details Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:57 am 
Second Gear
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2006 8:06 pm
Posts: 331
Are u using the stock shifter? I wanted to find out if the kartboy short shifter for the six speed would work

Thanks


Profile  Offline
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 6spd Swap Details Thread
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:01 pm 
Site Admin
Site Admin
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:37 am
Posts: 27337
Location: Houston, Tx
Yes, my plan is to use the stock shifter.

I don't see why the kartboy short shifter for the six speed wouldn't work. Am I missing something as to why it wouldn't work?

_________________
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


Profile  Offline
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: 6spd Swap Details Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:54 am 
quasi-mod-o
quasi-mod-o
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 7:06 pm
Posts: 5987
Location: Orlando, FL
That brings up another point: is the length of the transmission going to pose a problem in regard to shifter location?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

_________________
2000 Subaru Legacy B4 RSK

"Der Wahnsinn ist nur eine schmale Brücke/die Ufer sind Vernunft und Trieb"

*Formerly subyluvr2212*

Please email me at fahrer4184@gmail.com if you want to contact me.


Profile  Offline
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 6spd Swap Details Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:11 am 
First Gear
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:11 am
Posts: 66
Location: Prince George BC Canada
Legacy777 wrote:
I found out this past weekend to change the axle stub seals that the bearing end caps have to be removed....which sucks! I need to order new outer o-rings and then will give it a shot removing the end caps and replacing the seals.

Has anyone done this before?



Haven't done a 6mt but the 5mt is pretty straight forward. Just put two small punch marks on the end cap and trans case. Count how many turns to take it off and when installing just go backwards. Do one side at a time! I've done probably a dozen of these jobs and have never run into an issue. I've also lost count when spinning the end cap and have not had any issues. When tightening the cap it will start to feel tight when your getting there. Usually the cap will feel like it's bottoming out when your there. Also on the 5mt remember to remove the retainer with the 12mm bolt. I had a real dirty one once and I missed that, it took quite a bit of effort to get it off lol.
We have a special tool for this job. You could make one easy enough. It's a horseshoe with a T handle, on each end of the horseshoe there is a metal bolt sticking out to grab the fins on the end cap. Kind of looks like a cam gear holding tool except smaller.


Profile  Offline
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 6spd Swap Details Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:40 pm 
Site Admin
Site Admin
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:37 am
Posts: 27337
Location: Houston, Tx
Thanks for the feedback on the bearing caps! I really appreciate it. Yeah I will probably try and tackle replacing the seals this weekend. I had planned to do the steps you suggested.....I just haven't done one before, so it's always good to know what you're getting into :)

_________________
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


Profile  Offline
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 6spd Swap Details Thread
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:42 pm 
Site Admin
Site Admin
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:37 am
Posts: 27337
Location: Houston, Tx
DerFahrer wrote:
That brings up another point: is the length of the transmission going to pose a problem in regard to shifter location?



No, it shouldn't. From my recollection the 6spd shifter stay/arm is shorter, so everything should line up just fine. The nice thing is that it appears Subaru kept all the dimensions for mounting, linkage, etc constant so the transmission could really go into any car. I've got a buddy who has a 6spd in his 98 RS, and I don't believe he had to modify the shifter.

_________________
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


Profile  Offline
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 6spd Swap Details Thread
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:56 pm 
Site Admin
Site Admin
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:37 am
Posts: 27337
Location: Houston, Tx
Did the oil seals and the bearing caps weren't as difficult as I expected. I did a short write-up:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=50841

_________________
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


Profile  Offline
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 6spd Swap Details Thread
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:34 pm 
Site Admin
Site Admin
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:37 am
Posts: 27337
Location: Houston, Tx
BTW, here are instructions from TiC on installing the 6spd joint poly bushings, just in case anyone needs them in the future.

http://turninconcepts.com/instructions/ ... index.html

_________________
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


Profile  Offline
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 6spd Swap Details Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:15 am 
Site Admin
Site Admin
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:37 am
Posts: 27337
Location: Houston, Tx
I've updated the transmission and driveline length numbers as well as a few other details in my original post, so check it out. In addition, I've weighed the 5spd flywheel, clutch, & pressure plate. Check out their weights and comparisons in this thread.

_________________
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


Profile  Offline
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 6spd Swap Details Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:21 am 
Fourth Gear
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:58 am
Posts: 1030
Location: Plaistow,NH
is that a starrett 48" scale I spy up there?^

_________________
Blue 94GT dead and steadily parting out.
Silver 93 Fwd N/A sedan undergoing repairs
93 Winestone TW project
92 SS scrapped by my landlord...


Profile  Offline
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 6spd Swap Details Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:13 am 
Site Admin
Site Admin
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:37 am
Posts: 27337
Location: Houston, Tx
Umm....It's just a shipping scale I bought, I don't remember the name.

_________________
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


Profile  Offline
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 6spd Swap Details Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:53 am 
Fourth Gear
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:58 am
Posts: 1030
Location: Plaistow,NH
scale as in ruler

_________________
Blue 94GT dead and steadily parting out.
Silver 93 Fwd N/A sedan undergoing repairs
93 Winestone TW project
92 SS scrapped by my landlord...


Profile  Offline
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 6spd Swap Details Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:45 pm 
Site Admin
Site Admin
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:37 am
Posts: 27337
Location: Houston, Tx
Ahh....It's a Johnson Level

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... G_7933.JPG

_________________
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


Profile  Offline
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 6spd Swap Details Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:19 pm 
Second Gear
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 11:24 pm
Posts: 481
Location: St Pete, FL
Awesome progress Josh!

_________________
-04 WRX STi - Java Black Pearl - Cobb Stage 2
-02 Forester Type S premium - Platinum Silver Metallic - Stock
-92 Legacy Sport Sedan - Onyx Black Pearl - Stock


Profile  Offline
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 6spd Swap Details Thread
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:26 pm 
Site Admin
Site Admin
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:37 am
Posts: 27337
Location: Houston, Tx
Thanks!

_________________
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


Profile  Offline
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 6spd Swap Details Thread
PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:34 pm 
Site Admin
Site Admin
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:37 am
Posts: 27337
Location: Houston, Tx
Updated first post with some more info and pictures regarding the differences between the clutch forks & lower flywheel covers, as well as some info regarding the flywheel & pressure plate alignment, wiring, and cutting/punching holes in the rubber shifter mount boot.

_________________
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


Profile  Offline
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: 6spd Swap Details Thread
PostPosted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:23 am 
Site Admin
Site Admin
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 11:37 am
Posts: 27337
Location: Houston, Tx
In case you need to ship a 6spd, it weighs 194.8 lbs.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=50982

_________________
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


Profile  Offline
Reply with quote  

Display posts from previous:  Sort by  

Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 36 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

Panel

Top You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
Search for:
Jump to:  

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
Dizayn Ercan Koc