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#1993 Subaru Legacy Turbo - Clutch Help

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 Post subject: 1993 Subaru Legacy Turbo - Clutch Help
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 12:26 am 
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Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:07 am
Posts: 11
Hey There,

My buddy recently purchased a rig at an auction in hopes of turning it into a rig for the Oregon Gambler 500.

We got it running, but the next problem we have come to is the clutch pedal will snap forward all the way to the floor, and then not return back.

Video for reference.

https://youtu.be/pzLoiaLpkW4

I'm sure this is a relatively simple issue, but we have yet to delve too far into it as we have another car we are getting ready as well, so I figured I would post on here to get some advice before we dive into it. If you have any advice it would be greatly appreciated as we are car mechanic noobs!


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 Post subject: Re: 1993 Subaru Legacy Turbo - Clutch Help
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 3:16 pm 
Fourth Gear
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 1204
Location: Rochester, WA
Try not to ruin the car in the Gambler, these cars are getting rare, especially factory 5-speed ones. Unless it's already ruined/wrecked/rusty, then have at it. ;)

That's normal behavior of the clutch pedal when there's no pressure in the hydraulic clutch system. The assist spring pulls it toward the floor once you pass the initial inch or two.

You likely have a problem with one of these parts: Clutch fluid, clutch master cylinder, clutch line, clutch slave cylinder, clutch delay valve, clutch fork, throwout bearing, pressure plate. Start rolling down the chain and fix whatever's broken.

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2005 Legacy GT Limited Wagon 5-Speed. Stock-ish ;)


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 Post subject: Re: 1993 Subaru Legacy Turbo - Clutch Help
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 5:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:07 am
Posts: 11
Thanks for the help! Master cylinder has good looking fluid in it that is holding steady. I'll probably bleed everything tonight and put fresh fluid in to see if it works the way through the system. Are there any online schematics of the master to slave cylinder? Plan on getting a Haynes manual.

This guy might be up for sale soon if we can't get it driving by June 1st. Haha


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 Post subject: Re: 1993 Subaru Legacy Turbo - Clutch Help
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 5:33 pm 
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Yeah, bleed everything and see if that helps. The other thing to note is I believe there is a damper and that needs to be bled too. So you need to bleed from the MC to the damper and then damper to the slave. I've removed the damper and used a custom SS braided line. You can see what I did and the parts used (it's at the bottom of the transmission list)

http://www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/swa ... ansmission

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Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


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 Post subject: Re: 1993 Subaru Legacy Turbo - Clutch Help
PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2017 7:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:07 am
Posts: 11
Thanks! I was wondering what that piece was for. I was looking for schematics but couldn't find anything. I'll take a look at your guide once I'm home. Thanks for the info!


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 Post subject: Re: 1993 Subaru Legacy Turbo - Clutch Help
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 4:38 am 
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Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:07 am
Posts: 11
A little update from today.

We opened up the bleeder valve of the slave, and nothing came out. We then took the banjo bolt off the off the slave and some fluid came out but not much. I then took the banjo bolt off of the dampener from the hose going to the master, removed the cap from the master reservoir and no fluid came out.

We removed the hose from where it attaches to the master, and no fluid came out. That's where we called it quits for the night. With the hose removed the reservoir still has fluid in it. I'm guessing there is something wrong with the master cylinder push rod so that it isn't moving the valve on the inside. Any thoughts on this?

Plan to remove the master cylinder tomorrow, and then we will order up a new master and slave with the right hoses to do a dampener bypass.

Any advice and/or thoughts would be appreciated.

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: 1993 Subaru Legacy Turbo - Clutch Help
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 6:34 pm 
Fourth Gear
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 1204
Location: Rochester, WA
Sounds like the right track.
It's normal for fluid to not come out when disconnecting the lines. It's not under pressure until you hit the pedal.

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 Post subject: Re: 1993 Subaru Legacy Turbo - Clutch Help
PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 8:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:07 am
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I think the master cylinder is shot for sure as moving the pedal didn't push any fluid out. We plan on doing the dampener (damper?) bypass for sure. Could we just use a 20" line with two banjo fittings on the end, or does it need to be a clutch specific for this model? I've seen various part numbers referenced in different threads. We are going cheap!


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 Post subject: Re: 1993 Subaru Legacy Turbo - Clutch Help
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 4:39 am 
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Took the master cylinder out today. We have a new master, slave, and hose coming in. Any qualms with using the old banjo bolt? Also the master to damper hose would reach to the slave so we may just end up using that if possible.

Put the starter back in today and fired it up after refilling the fluid. Seems like it is running well, but we are getting smoke out of the engine bay. Seems like we have an exhaust leak out of the header that we will have to check in with. Hoping on Friday when we get the other parts in it will shift into gear and the clutch works. Fingers crossed!


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 Post subject: Re: 1993 Subaru Legacy Turbo - Clutch Help
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 2:51 pm 
Fourth Gear
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 1204
Location: Rochester, WA
I was going to say that one of the stock lines to the clutch delay valve is long enough to reach the slave instead.
Shouldn't be an issue with reusing the banjo bolts unless they are clogged.

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 Post subject: Re: 1993 Subaru Legacy Turbo - Clutch Help
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 7:57 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:07 am
Posts: 11
What woild the reservoir in front of the master cylinder be for? Stupid question I'm sure, but we are still waiting for the manual. Thanks!

Image


Last edited by Loam on Wed May 03, 2017 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 1993 Subaru Legacy Turbo - Clutch Help
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 8:37 pm 
Fourth Gear
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 1204
Location: Rochester, WA
Picture didn't work.

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 Post subject: Re: 1993 Subaru Legacy Turbo - Clutch Help
PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 9:24 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:07 am
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Trying to use photobucket with my phone. Its not working so well. How about now.


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 Post subject: Re: 1993 Subaru Legacy Turbo - Clutch Help
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 3:19 pm 
Fourth Gear
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:09 pm
Posts: 1204
Location: Rochester, WA
Nope, is the picture set to private?

Is the reservoir funky shaped black plastic with a radiator cap on top? If so, it's the coolant tank and fill point. It plays a role in cooling the turbo down after the engine is shut off.

If it's round with a yellow cap, it's probably brake or clutch fluid reservoir.

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 Post subject: Re: 1993 Subaru Legacy Turbo - Clutch Help
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 4:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:07 am
Posts: 11
Decided to just trace where it was leading to and it's coolant. That took a whole 2 minutes. lol.

Odd our manual that came in doesn't have that. Guessing it's a turbo specific addition? Thanks for the help. I'll update yall next week after we get the new slave and master in.


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 Post subject: Re: 1993 Subaru Legacy Turbo - Clutch Help
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 6:03 pm 
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Yup, that's where you put coolant in since the turbo car's radiator doesn't have a filler cap.

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Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


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 Post subject: Re: 1993 Subaru Legacy Turbo - Clutch Help
PostPosted: Thu May 04, 2017 7:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:07 am
Posts: 11
It was bone dry and has a fine orange powder caked on. Guessing this is dried out remnants from what was in there. Should we either try and clean it, get a new one, or would filling it up and leaving it as is be fine?


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 Post subject: Re: 1993 Subaru Legacy Turbo - Clutch Help
PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 6:05 pm 
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The powder is probably dried rust powder or coolant residue if someone used the orange long life coolant.

Do you know how the rest of your coolant looks? You may want to drain and flush/refill the entire system.

_________________
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


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 Post subject: Re: 1993 Subaru Legacy Turbo - Clutch Help
PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 1:04 am 
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Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 12:07 am
Posts: 11
Once again us non-car guys are getting stumped.

We got the new slave and master cylinder in the mail. We hooked it up and started to bleed the clutch. We would pump the pedal about 8 times, then keep it pressed down, and open the bleed valve, then close it up while we still had some fluid coming out. We did this about 15 times. No success in having the pedal get enough pressure to come back on it's own. We could move the clutch fork about an inch each time we pressed the pedal, but that was it.

We then hooked it together with the old hose, and bench bled the system. We were getting a straight stream of fluid with no air bubbles and pressure on the slave push rod when the bleed nipple was closed. We put everything back in the car, and hooked it up to the clutch pedal.

We still don't have enough pressure to kick the pedal back. It moves the clutch fork about an inch, but the pedal doesn't come back.

I'm guessing we are doing a shitty job bleeding, but while bench bleeding I pumped the slave with the reservoir cap open and didn't get any air bubbles that way either. If using two people, one on the pedals, and one on the bleeder, how long does it typically take? I know we are fucking up, but anyone know the exact reason and how we can not fuck up from here on out? :)


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 Post subject: Re: 1993 Subaru Legacy Turbo - Clutch Help
PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 3:41 am 
Fourth Gear
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:09 pm
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Location: Rochester, WA
Pumping the clutch fast or multiple times I find aerates the fluid far too much. I start with the clutch up, open the bleeder a small amount, and gently guide the pedal to the floor. Don't let it bang down to the floor on the spring pressure. Once it's nearly at the floor, close the bleeder and slowly pull it back up to the top. It should take about 5 seconds to go down, and 5 seconds to come back up. Every down stroke, open the bleeder to move fluid through. Keep the reservoir full. After about 10-15 of those, I generally find the clutch pedal is as good as it gets.

I've also had some success using a vacuum bleeder on the slave, but the above method seems to yield a better bleed.

Did you bypass the clutch delay valve?

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2005 Legacy GT Limited Wagon 5-Speed. Stock-ish ;)


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 Post subject: Re: 1993 Subaru Legacy Turbo - Clutch Help
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 5:39 pm 
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The other thing to note is that the pressure plate force is what returns the pedal all the way to top of the stroke. There is a spring at the top of the clutch fork that keeps the slack removed so that the hydraulic slave cylinder works properly.

If you've bench bled everything and it's working fine out of the car, but the pedal just isn't coming up all the way I'd look into the positioning around the clutch fork and the pressure plate. Check the motion of the clutch fork, its starting and end positions.

_________________
Josh

surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm


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