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#ABS pump delete ?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:06 pm 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:41 am
Posts: 8352
Location: Tenino, WA
I would like to get rid of my ABS pump as well. I don't know if it works or not yet but I don't care for it much and it's taking up a lot of spacer under the hood.

Seems like it would be simple to just repace the lines from a junkyard legacy. Will any 90-94 legacy lines work? Can I use my turbo MC? All those T fittings are not necessary if I just swap the lines from an N/A legacy right?

Doesn't seem too hard.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 14, 2010 6:43 pm 
First Gear
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:38 am
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Location: dover , ohio
replace all your lines ... or just add some Ts ... i know what sounds easyer to me ... but if your into it go big and do the lines . cant hurt, then you know you have all new lines !

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:24 am 
Second Gear
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:26 am
Posts: 392
^ that was My theory. It's gotta be easier for me to do all new lines then go pull them off a junk yard car.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 5:57 am 
First Gear
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:38 am
Posts: 130
Location: dover , ohio
ya i dont think i would ever use junk yard brake lines .... i live in ohio and rust and corrosion are way to bad .

i would never be able to get a set off a car with out breaking something .. and if i did i would not trust them .

new is always better .. and if you can, upgrade !

i ball on a budget but i dont skimp on important stuff . :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:20 pm 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:41 am
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Location: Tenino, WA
I'm not trying to skimp, especially with my brakes. I just figured it would be easier since it's just bolt on and already formed to fit perfectly. Plus I have never done brake lines before so I don't know what I'm doing.

They don't salt the roads here so there's no rust on our cars. If you have rust on your car here, you really don't take care of it.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:03 pm 
Knowledgeable
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Joined: Fri May 09, 2003 10:41 pm
Posts: 1981
Location: Hamilton Ontario Canada
i just did this my self, i got oem legacy non abs lines and the master cylinder.

it bolts right up perfect, you just have to make one line on the passenger side becuse the non abs car has a hill holder, or and a extra proportioning valve.

i didnt take any pics of it shit

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 Post subject: Re: ABS pump delete ?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:02 pm 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:41 am
Posts: 8352
Location: Tenino, WA
OK, you guys neglected to mention that the ABS and non-ABS master cylinders are not the same at all. The ABS MC in my 91 SS has only 2 holes to scew in brake lines whereas the 90 L non-ABS car in the junkyard yesterday had 4 holes because all 4 brake lines connect directly to the MC.

I'm pretty sure replacing the MC is a must if you want to get rid of your ABS.

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 Post subject: Re: ABS pump delete ?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:27 am 
Second Gear
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:26 am
Posts: 392
why, just have one line to the front and split, and one line to the back and split like 90% of cars out there.

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 Post subject: Re: ABS pump delete ?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:43 am 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 6:37 am
Posts: 2857
Location: North Idaho
^^^ Exactly right.

In fact, Brakequip makes a metric brake line tee - 10x1mm that you can you use. You don't really even have to change lines or buy a flaring tool. Just bend the stock lines around a bit and run new lines from the tee's up to your proportioning valve and *bam* ABS is deleted. I'll post a pic soon if I can. It ain't the prettiest but it is effective and if you're hesitant about flaring your own lines or are cheap then it can be done. Besides, a piece of alum. sheet appropriately bent will cover the tees and you'll never see it.

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93' SS, 5mt swapped, 182k, not stock...
96' N/A OBW 5sp, 212k, Couple mods... RIP
99' N/A OBW, 4eat, mostly stock.


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 Post subject: Re: ABS pump delete ?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:09 am 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:41 am
Posts: 8352
Location: Tenino, WA
Didn't know that was an option. I've never messed with brakes before for safety reasons and also never needed to. Definately like to see pics of what you guys did with yours.

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 Post subject: Re: ABS pump delete ?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:34 am 
Second Gear
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:26 am
Posts: 392
If you've never messed with brakes, you should not be making your own brake lines with out proper instruction first. Double flaring isn't hard to do, but you do need to know the difference between a good one and a bad one.

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 Post subject: Re: ABS pump delete ?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:24 am 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:41 am
Posts: 8352
Location: Tenino, WA
Those were my thoughts exactly. Which is why I opted to just grab some stock lines from the junkyard. They're in good shape too.

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 Post subject: Re: ABS pump delete ?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:09 am 
Fourth Gear
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:06 am
Posts: 1162
Location: Renton, WA
Wow, this is dumb as shit on a street car. Please don't drive near me if you do this.


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 Post subject: Re: ABS pump delete ?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:10 am 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:14 pm
Posts: 3043
Location: Twin Cities, MN
Apex3 wrote:
Wow, this is dumb as shit on a street car. Please don't drive near me if you do this.




To drive a car without ABS? LOL

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 Post subject: Re: ABS pump delete ?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:42 am 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 3:41 am
Posts: 8352
Location: Tenino, WA
I drive a car without ABS every day. In fact, I've never had a car with ABS.

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 Post subject: Re: ABS pump delete ?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:48 pm 
Site Admin
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Posts: 27267
Location: Houston, Tx
I'll throw in my 2 cents again. Driving a car without ABS is not really a big deal. For a street car, it's not going to hurt a damn thing to leave it in, and the odds are greater that it will help you in a panic situation, vs. removing the ABS.

The beef I have is what results when people typically remove the ABS. It is typically a hack job. Please don't read this as I'm referring that to the work or the worker, but rather the modified overall brake system design. The factory system uses two diaganol brake circuits. Each one is separately piped and for the most part isolated from each other. This is done to provide a redundant circuit to allow the brakes to function at a reduced level to bring the car safely to a stop in the event fluid is lost or something is damaged in the other brake circuit.

In my opinion, removing this redundant safety design, primarily on street car is dangerous. There are numerous unknowns and what-ifs that could occur, and removing this safety design just makes failure a much more deadly and dangerous concern.

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1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
1997 Impreza OBS

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 Post subject: Re: ABS pump delete ?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:41 am 
First Gear
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:38 am
Posts: 130
Location: dover , ohio
ABS is an option
non abs is an option

i like the feel of brakes with out abs ... and i feel like i know the cars i build and drive well enough to handel " panic situations " if you ever find your self in one ...

long story short .. do what you want but you should prob go ahead and do it right the first time !

the " simple way " is leave as much stock as possible .. keeping the factory fail safe ... and just remove the part you dont want , in this case the ABS pump .

i have sold my legacy ... so i cant say much more seeing as how i never tried the abs delete ... but i did run my car the whole time i had it with no fuse in the abs so it was disabled .

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 Post subject: Re: ABS pump delete ?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:24 am 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 9:14 pm
Posts: 3043
Location: Twin Cities, MN
When I popped a rear brake line in my beater wagon, I had next to zero brakes. I'm glad I was only doing 15 mph at the time.


Finding non-ABS lines shouldn't be too difficult with a little digging. And if the lines you find were from a car with a hill-holder, making that line that deletes it shouldn't be too big of a deal. Just spend the money on a nice flaring kit and be done with it. The crap you rent from parts stores is just that, crap.

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 Post subject: Re: ABS pump delete ?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 4:57 am 
Fourth Gear
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:06 am
Posts: 1162
Location: Renton, WA
Legacy777 wrote:
I'll throw in my 2 cents again. Driving a car without ABS is not really a big deal. For a street car, it's not going to hurt a damn thing to leave it in, and the odds are greater that it will help you in a panic situation, vs. removing the ABS.

The beef I have is what results when people typically remove the ABS. It is typically a hack job. Please don't read this as I'm referring that to the work or the worker, but rather the modified overall brake system design. The factory system uses two diaganol brake circuits. Each one is separately piped and for the most part isolated from each other. This is done to provide a redundant circuit to allow the brakes to function at a reduced level to bring the car safely to a stop in the event fluid is lost or something is damaged in the other brake circuit.

In my opinion, removing this redundant safety design, primarily on street car is dangerous. There are numerous unknowns and what-ifs that could occur, and removing this safety design just makes failure a much more deadly and dangerous concern.


This. But it also just doesn't make sense, why get rid of something that's there to keep you safe? I don't care how good you think you are at driving, in a panic situation 99% of people are not paying enough attention to properly brake and will just slam on the brakes as hard as they can. Obviously a lot of cars don't have ABS but there is absolutely no reason to remove it if you already have it. I've had cars with and without ABS, the only accident I've had could have probably been prevented if I had ABS, another time there was a really close call and I'm lucky I slowed down enough.


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 Post subject: Re: ABS pump delete ?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:09 pm 
Fifth Gear
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 6:37 am
Posts: 2857
Location: North Idaho
^^^ To throw another item out there. I've slid into the middle of an intersection in the winter time more times than I can count because at 5mph my OBW's ABS system would not allow me to lock the brakes and stop the car - it just kept letting the wheels turn. A system that forces you to take 50ft to stop from 5mph is not an ideal system. I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has experienced this.

Additionally, the decision to have ABS and not have ABS is up to the driver. It's the same as the decision to run performance tires or 80k mi all-seasons - something which the safety of the decision could be just as easily debated. Or how about making more power on stock brakes and suspension? Along a similar line - a lot of us race our cars and also drive them as a daily. If something will make my car safer and more predicatable on the track when I'm at speed and at traction limits - I'm going to do it because it results in a safer car. But it all comes back to a individual's decision and his right to make it.



Finally, this thread is not meant to be focused on how safe or unsafe not having ABS is. It is a thread based on how to properly remove ABS. Josh's point about the diagonal redudancy is valid and should be considered. There is a lot of debate and searching through the old threads will show that a several people - as Dan discovered - have not had 'positive' experiences with the system working correctly after loosing a single line. I know that personally I was able to completely drain my brake resevoir out of a single line when I was clearing fluid from my lines. But I have still setup the non-abs lines to maintain the diagonal redunancy - if nothing else for good design practice.

Let's keep it on track. (*oh snap, pun intended :))

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93' SS, 5mt swapped, 182k, not stock...
96' N/A OBW 5sp, 212k, Couple mods... RIP
99' N/A OBW, 4eat, mostly stock.


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 Post subject: Re: ABS pump delete ?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 11:15 pm 
In Neutral
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2015 2:21 am
Posts: 15
bringing it back!

Did anyone acutely put in the Tees and care to share exactly how to do it?

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 Post subject: Re: ABS pump delete ?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:05 pm 
In Neutral
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 12:09 am
Posts: 28
When I had my RHD Type RA it was non-ABS from the factory. I have looked up in the parts manual at the dealership I work at (Toronto, Canada). Total cost of brand new hard line set up from front to back of the car was a little over $300...that's pretty cheap for pre-bent lines from the factory. Realistically you should only need the under hood ones that were maybe $70... I needed the others because the rear lines were rusted out and I popped a line.


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