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 Post subject: Why does every site only show rear pads when filtered?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:27 am 
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Why does every site only show rear pads when filtered for a SS? It's very annoying, what front pads does the SS take? Is it the same 2pot as the 98-04 LGT and 2.5RS?

Looking for some breaks and tires for a road going rally car... thinking the Hawk street 5.0 unless another company has something. Tire's I have no idea where to get rally tires sense A/T tires only come in Outback sizes.


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 Post subject: Re: Why does every site only show rear pads when filtered?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:50 am 
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Would putting 205/70R15's on a first gen mess it up?


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 Post subject: Re: Why does every site only show rear pads when filtered?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:52 pm 
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Check out the "sticky" in the brake section, look for the compiled brake information thread. Has the brake pad and caliper information for most all modern subarus.

Regarding tires, the poorer rally guys actually use studless snow tires. The real rally tires come in 15" of course, but their tread pattern and rubber compositions leads to really sketchy handling on pavement. And they don't last very long. If there's any rally teams in your area, im sure theyll be happy to sell you their used tires for cheap.

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 Post subject: Re: Why does every site only show rear pads when filtered?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:01 pm 
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mike-tracy wrote:
Check out the "sticky" in the brake section, look for the compiled brake information thread. Has the brake pad and caliper information for most all modern subarus.

Regarding tires, the poorer rally guys actually use studless snow tires. The real rally tires come in 15" of course, but their tread pattern and rubber compositions leads to really sketchy handling on pavement. And they don't last very long. If there's any rally teams in your area, im sure theyll be happy to sell you their used tires for cheap.
Ahhhh ok, I was looking in the "break facts" and it's just a bunch of theaory and upgrade stuff.

I know winterforces are the way to go for rally-x but I was worried about them wearing to fast but if rally tires do the same..... what do the pro's use for like a 50/50 or 60/40 tarmac and gravel stage?

I want something I can cruse around on and then hit dirt if needed.... so summer performance tire is going to fare very well on gravel but neither is a typical passenger all season... I don't know what rubber I should put on her.


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 Post subject: Re: Why does every site only show rear pads when filtered?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:16 pm 
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If you are having trouble finding pads you want (there aren't many options in that shape), you might want to consider putting newer calipers on. A lot of subarus use the same size rotors and calipers, I think up to current cars, and will bolt on. Basically any non-turbo impreza with 2-pot fronts.


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 Post subject: Re: Why does every site only show rear pads when filtered?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:00 pm 
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And, additionally the fxt for the front 2-pot fronts as i found out the hard way by sitting on a set lol.

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 Post subject: Re: Why does every site only show rear pads when filtered?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:47 am 
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So this is what I thought

"276x24mm
This uses a two piston sliding front caliper and there are three caliper/bracket designs. One for the 91-94 Legacy SS/TW, an early Legacy 2.5GT/Impreza RS bracket (~96-99), and a Later RS/GT bracket (03+). It's possible to exchange some of these calipers onto taller WRX brackets as long as the pad shapes match.
Applications:
91-94 Legacy turbo
96-01 Legacy GT
96-01 Outback
00-04 Legacy non-GT
98+ Impreza RS/TS/2.5i
98+ Forester"

So all of those cars use the same front pads?


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 Post subject: Re: Why does every site only show rear pads when filtered?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:57 pm 
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Keep going down the compilation thread till you get to the pad shapes (d721, d400,etc)

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 Post subject: Re: Why does every site only show rear pads when filtered?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 4:30 pm 
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Preferably get a set of brakes that are 276mm and use pad shape d929, which is more recent. So, for example, a non-turbo impreza newer than 2003. I think even 2015s use the same brakes.

Or, if you are using rally specific wheels the larger 4-pot subaru labeled brakes will also fit, and not alter brake bias.


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 Post subject: Re: Why does every site only show rear pads when filtered?
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 1:03 am 
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jamal wrote:
Preferably get a set of brakes that are 276mm and use pad shape d929, which is more recent. So, for example, a non-turbo impreza newer than 2003. I think even 2015s use the same brakes.

Or, if you are using rally specific wheels the larger 4-pot subaru labeled brakes will also fit, and not alter brake bias.
So, from the thread

"Front 2-pots

D563:
1991-1994 Legacy Turbo
1996 Outback
1996 Legacy GT

D721:
1997-2002 Legacy
1998-2001 Impreza RS
2002 Impreza and WRX
1998-2002 Forester

D929/D1539:
2002-2009 Legacy/Outback (non-gt)
2003+ Impreza/Forester
8/2002-2005 WRX
2008-2014 WRX
BRZ/FRS/GT86

I added a new shape, 1539. It is listed specifically for the 11+ but the basic shape is still the same. Difference is that the new pad has more friction material on it and slightly different wear indicators.

See this article for clarification on 02-03 shapes

D1078:
2005-2009 Legacy GT
Tribeca
2015 WRX"

My 98 GT has D721's which would be convenient but still old, so I should "upgrade" the SS (maybe the 98 too) to D929? If I want to maintain fitment for 15" wheels? In order to do this do I need to change that caliper or just the bracket?

Is there anything in between D929's, and D1078/4pots?

I would like to run either EBC red stuff or yellow stuff, stoptech or hawk HP 5.0 pads on the front and rear or something similarly suitable to rally and track duty.


Last edited by ScaryfatkidGT on Wed May 04, 2016 1:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Why does every site only show rear pads when filtered?
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 1:05 am 
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If you upgrade to newer calipers with the same size rotors and calipers, what is your reasoning to upgrade?

Just assume that any brakes you put on will need the caliper and bracket.

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 Post subject: Re: Why does every site only show rear pads when filtered?
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 1:09 am 
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mike-tracy wrote:
Yes
Lol caliper bracket or both? If I need to change calipers that's kind of spendy...... also can I just order brackets from a parts store? or am I going to have to go junkyard hunting? I'd just rather go into a parts store and pay $30-40 for some nice black powdercoated brackets.


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 Post subject: Re: Why does every site only show rear pads when filtered?
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 1:15 am 
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See my post above. Im wondering what your objective in doing this is. Spending money for spending money's sake with no performance increa
se dosent make any sense to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Why does every site only show rear pads when filtered?
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 1:30 am 
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mike-tracy wrote:
See my post above. Im wondering what your objective in doing this is. Spending money for spending money's sake with no performance increa
se dosen't make any sense to me.
So I have a 93 SS caged rally car I would like to do Auto-X, Rally-X, HPDE/track days with and maybe eventually stage rallys, its breaks and shocks are all shit, on the front I even have a slotted rotor on one side and not the other... I want to do pads and rotors, it has SS break lines. The issue I'm having is there are absolutely 0 performance pads for the front D563 pad shape, so I want to (as suggested) change to the D721 or D929 pad shape as there are a lot more choices for pads, however I want to change to something there are matching rear pads for.

I'm also wondering if while doing this I would have to or it would be beneficial to upgrade the front rotors from 276x24mm to 294x24/25.5mm and if this would change or mess up the breaking bias. I could also to the H6's in the rear but the smaller vented rotors are kind of cool as long as I can get pads to fit.


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 Post subject: Re: Why does every site only show rear pads when filtered?
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 1:39 am 
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I understand now. Check out the brake thread sticky for the brake math spreadsheet. It shows you the exact amount of change in bias upgrading the brakes will have.

If you have all those plans for the car, dont waste a penny more on cheesy brakes. Upgrade to the 4/2 pots, or keep the stockers till you can.

They fit rally 15's like those by team dynamics, speedline, etc.

Spend some time in the suspension section, reading the stickys. Then search for the guys who have actually rallied their SSs. Copy their setups when you can afford it.

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 Post subject: Re: Why does every site only show rear pads when filtered?
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 1:54 am 
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mike-tracy wrote:
I understand now. Check out the brake thread sticky for the brake math spreadsheet. It shows you the exact amount of change in bias upgrading the brakes will have.

If you have all those plans for the car, dont waste a penny more on cheesy brakes. Upgrade to the 4/2 pots, or keep the stockers till you can.

They fit rally 15's like those by team dynamics, speedline, etc.

Spend some time in the suspension section, reading the stickys. Then search for the guys who have actually rallied their SSs. Copy their setups when you can afford it.
But I need breaks now lmao, and I figured it would be pretty cheap to run 929 pads... are the 4 pots really that much better? It said that even 16x6.5 rims wouldn't clear them.

For suspension I'm going to get GR-2's and king rally springs for now, eventually gravel spec coilovers. My only concern is the tire size I can run before rubbing on the spring perch on the strut.


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 Post subject: Re: Why does every site only show rear pads when filtered?
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 2:22 am 
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Image
Image
Image
(has japanese unpainted 4/2pots)

All these are 15" wheels.

I don't have the answer of what size is the max you can fit, maybe search "biggest tires that fit"

On the brakes, you can do what you like and have the budget for. There's a reason that 4 pots are used by most of the subarus in rally america with 15" rally wheels, instead of any old wrx takeoffs. Even the STI's are converted to run them. Major exceptions include the Subaru of America backed David Higgins and Travis Pastrana. They have really, really expensive brakes as you'd imagine.

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 Post subject: Re: Why does every site only show rear pads when filtered?
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 2:30 am 
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Image

Image

Higgins and Pastrana are running Method wheels and Dmack Grippa 215/65/r15 tires. I took these pics at Oregon Trail Rally a couple weeks back.

Image

Higgin's previous car, you can see the ridiculous brakes and and brake cooling the pros have.

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 Post subject: Re: Why does every site only show rear pads when filtered?
PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 7:03 pm 
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721 shape pads are available in quite a few compounds so you don't really need to change anything on the GT. The other big reason to find the newer calipers is that they will be in better condition. I mean, anything with the older 721 shape is going on 15 years old at this point, whereas I think there are brand new subarus out there with 276mm rotors and the newer pad shapes.

Yes you need both the bracket and caliper to switch pad types (in the front anyway).

4-pots (294mm rotors) create the same brake torque as 2-pots with 276mm rotors.

And yeah, group n brakes stopped being the 4/2 pots like 10 years ago. They're not cheap:

http://www.rallispec.com/bra_kit_rsth210.html


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 Post subject: Re: Why does every site only show rear pads when filtered?
PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2016 10:56 pm 
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jamal wrote:
721 shape pads are available in quite a few compounds so you don't really need to change anything on the GT. The other big reason to find the newer calipers is that they will be in better condition. I mean, anything with the older 721 shape is going on 15 years old at this point, whereas I think there are brand new subarus out there with 276mm rotors and the newer pad shapes.

Yes you need both the bracket and caliper to switch pad types (in the front anyway).

4-pots (294mm rotors) create the same brake torque as 2-pots with 276mm rotors.

And yeah, group n brakes stopped being the 4/2 pots like 10 years ago. They're not cheap:

http://www.rallispec.com/bra_kit_rsth210.html
There are a lot of 721 pads avalable but I need new brakes now and I just want the larger rotors on my GT for performance reasons and it would be nice to be running the same brakes on both cars for buying pads and if I ever crack a rotor or something, also the GT I have 16's and 17's for so no problem fitting the larger rotors. My GT is going to be a DD/HPDE/Track day car and my 93 stripped/caged, street-able weekend rally/rally-x machine.


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 Post subject: Re: Why does every site only show rear pads when filtered?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:35 am 
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So just FYI for people searching this I went with 294mm front (WRX 929 pad shape) powerstop kit with new/re-man red calipers, pads and rotors and I'm going to run the 05+ legacy GT rear brakes (vented H6) rear or basically 06-07 WRX 4 pot rotors but with sliding 2 pot/1 pot calipers cuz I can't afford 4 pots right now, but if I upgraded I wouldn't necessarily need to swap rotors.

Also considering many tires in 205/70R15 and 210/65R16 sizes as well as grooving my own.


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