Head swap now my car will not start? New timing PICS HELP

waldo320 · Post by **waldo320** » Wed Dec 06, 2006 11:03 pm

I just did a dohc head swap, also I did a parrell fuel line mod, just put in a walbro 255lph, ebay fpr, and my car will not start back fire or anything other than turn over. Fuel I dont know how much pressure I am getting casue my gauge is at 0. Spark I tested am getting some. Next is timing I have double checked and tripple check and am 90% sure its dead on. I do not know what to try next any suggestions?

Matt Monson · Post by **Matt Monson** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 12:36 am

Are you sure you have the fuel lines routed correctly? That's the first thing I would check...

waldo320 · Post by **waldo320** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:15 am

Well the feed goes to the front of the rail, the return on the back of the rail T'd fpr then return to tank. Wouldnt it still back fire if they were oposite? My car is not doing anything. Could any vacum lines misplacement casue a car not to fire?

douglas vincent · Post by **douglas vincent** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:47 am

1 - check to see if you actually have fuel pressure, ie crack a fuel line and see if its pressurised.

2 - When you did the heads swap, did you use the cam gears that came with the heads? Also, which heads did you use?

waldo320 · Post by **waldo320** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 1:57 am

99 rs heads, cam gears are from driver side cam gears are from 99legacy gt, pass side gears are from 96 outback gt. About the fuel pressure when I open the gas cap there is no pressure release, but I think I have some pressure cause I have a leak on my fpr and gas drips from it. New fuel pump, I have tried 3 fpr no diffrence. The only thing I have not chaged is the filter which about 2 years old. So I am going to buy a new one tommorw.

douglas vincent · Post by **douglas vincent** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:07 am

Make sure the cam sensor is plugged in

When you did the timing belt, did you use the arrow or the back hash mark on the crank gear? If you use the arrow on the crank gear, car wont start, I know

Binford · Post by **Binford** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 2:08 am

douglas vincent wrote:If you use the arrow on the crank gear, car wont start, I know

Me too.

waldo320 · Post by **waldo320** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:14 am

I'm pretty sure I used the slash, thankfully I had a friend catch the arrrow mistake. So the slash goes right under the cas right? What could be causing a low fuel pressure situation cause I redid my vacum lines. Ok from the charcol can the big one goes to the fuel tank, and the little one goes to the solenoid valve, then from the solenoid valve goes to the intake manifold. Pcv back to stock location on block, Iac breather after maf, fpr vacum off of intake manifold. Let me know if that does not sound right.

206er · Post by **206er** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:22 am

Binford wrote:
douglas vincent wrote:If you use the arrow on the crank gear, car wont start, I know
Me too.

me three

waldo320 · Post by **waldo320** » Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:41 pm

Ok hooked up a fuel pressure gauge and got right around 40 psi. So now there is fuel, just weather or not I have spark and timing. I'll try spark tonight once the garage airs out! Timing you aline the slash on the back of the cam pulley right not the arrow on the front. I am also using a 96 outback crank timing belt pulley would that make a timing diffrence ?

Post by **Legacy777** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:44 pm

Correct, use the mark on the back of the crank gear.

waldo320 · Post by **waldo320** » Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:55 pm

Well I tested spark this morning and everything worked fine so that leaves me with timing. I guess I will check that soon. Also is their anything else that would casue my car not start when doing this swap?

waldo320 · Post by **waldo320** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:06 pm

Here are some pics of the timing marks let me know what you think?

Left side

Right side

Cam gear

waldo320 · Post by **waldo320** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:08 am

Ok I rotated the crank a few more times tonight and all off a suden the marks do not line up at all what would casue this? I plan on retiming it tommorw hopefully I can figure out what casued this so I dont do it again.

douglas vincent · Post by **douglas vincent** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:33 am

The count is off because the gears are different sizes. No Matter What, if you rotate it, it will be off. Not too worry.

And I cant see why it wont start.... sorry. still thinking though.

FuJi K · Post by **FuJi K** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 4:21 pm

There should be no problem with the gears, except that the driver intake cam must be the DOHC one (although we did a '96 DOHC swap into a 1.8L Impreza and it starts just fine).

Retime it and see if it works. I remembered TIGHTENING the cam gears with the timing belt ON and it slipped a tooth or two and the car wouldn't start even after the cam gears where correct. The slipped tooth was at the crank gear. I just retimed it and it started up no problem.

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 7:22 pm

I'd suggest what Fuji said. I had some issues with the timing belt slipping a tooth on the EJ22 in my impreza. I just had to start all over again. But it fired up the first time.

redlineracer · Post by **redlineracer** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:34 am

Try putting the cyl #1 piston to TDC and manually check to see if the piston is at TDC by pulling out the cyl #1 spark plug and if you think it is at TDC put a phillips screwdriver down the spark plug hole and see if it is all the way up cause it should be all the way at the top if you just stick it in and doesnt go down. If you feel the top of the piston then your at TDC when its all the way up. If its all the way down then you'll hit the cylinder wall. Or you can recruit a friend and ask him to rotate the crank with a ratchet and put your finger over the spark plug hole covering it. Then tell him to rotate. When your finger blows off the hole then your at TDC. If it sucks in then your at BDC. You might be 180 off your timing thats why you might want to try this. Your crank could tell you that your at TDC when you're really not.

redlineracer · Post by **redlineracer** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:35 am

Oh dont forget the to put all your cams at 0. I forgot that part. LOL

Post by **Legacy777** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 8:07 pm

You really don't need to worry about TDC or any of that crap.

Just put the marks where they need to be, put the timing belt on, and pretty much all subaru belts come with marks on them as well. So it's just a matter of lining everything up.

That's it.

redlineracer · Post by **redlineracer** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:05 pm

Im just saying he could be at TDC and be 180 off on his camshafts. Or be at BDC and have his cams lines up. He has to make sure EVERYTHING is a TDC to have correct timing. Its not a matter of lining the dowls or lines. You can be at absolute TDC and your marks be off a degree or two. I always line up cars at TDC and 65% of the cars that I worked on the marks and dowls were off by at least 3 degrees. Its not that hard to do if you want to do it the right way.

Post by **Legacy777** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 10:38 pm

It does not matter!

I can take an ej22 motor, take off the timing belt, spin the cams and crank in every which way, and then align the marks, put the belt back on, and it'll start right up.

waldo320 · Post by **waldo320** » Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:26 pm

Ok did some work on the car today. By putting a screw driver in cy#1 then I stoped rotating the crank when the srewdrive stoped moving up left the arrow on the front of the crank pullley under the cas. But when I rotate the the crank pulley past tdc it gets stuck and jams with the intake valve on cy#2. I am using a 99 rs dohc timing belt. Why is this jamming ??

subytech · Post by **subytech** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:33 am

redlineracer wrote:Im just saying he could be at TDC and be 180 off on his camshafts. Or be at BDC and have his cams lines up. He has to make sure EVERYTHING is a TDC to have correct timing. Its not a matter of lining the dowls or lines. You can be at absolute TDC and your marks be off a degree or two. I always line up cars at TDC and 65% of the cars that I worked on the marks and dowls were off by at least 3 degrees. Its not that hard to do if you want to do it the right way.

If there is no timing components on the engine (I.E. belt, chain, or gears) there is technically no TDC compression stroke, there is only TDC so like legacy 777 said it dosent matter as long as you have all your marks lined up. If you do there is no possible way #1 could be at BDC or the crank mark would be 180 off, or if the cams were in BDC position their marks would be 180 off. The valve only opens and closes once in one cam revolution, so if the marks are lined up at TDC for the cams and the crank at the same time the engine is then at TDC compression and cannot be in any other position, and as long as the cam gears are exactly twice the size (twice the number of teeth) of the crank gear there should be no problem. This is why you should be able to rotate your crank exactly twice and have all the marks line up again, if not your pullys are the wrong size.

waldo320 · Post by **waldo320** » Tue Dec 19, 2006 4:32 pm

So with the cams tdc the intake valves would be open on cy2?

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Head swap now my car will not start? New timing PICS HELP

Head swap now my car will not start? New timing PICS HELP