Avid Reader First Time Poster....NEED HELP

AfRoDeSiAk36 · Post by **AfRoDeSiAk36** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:30 pm

1991 Subaru Legacy Turbo 16 valve 2.2 L engine

Okay so this past weekend I spent the day changing out both my serp belts and my timing belt. I'm a very new mechanic when it comes to working on cars so I was basically in my Hayne's manual the whole time when it came to replacing my timing belt. I could not find where the timing marks were at on the flywheel in the bell housing (whether it was because of dirt or I was just looking in the wrong place) so i called my pops and he said to use the indention markers on the crank pully, put them at twelve o clock and everything should be at TDC. When I took the timing belt cover off, I found that the crankshaft arrow was at about 2 o clock, and both the camshafts were sitting at about 11 o clock...which to my guess meant that the engine was not at TDC. So after not being able to get ahold of my pops I decided that we should turn the cams and crank to where all of the arrows and markings were at 12 o clock. Before doing this my Legacy would start, now it will crank but the engine will not fire. I of course know now, after the fact that just by turning the cams and crank to line up at 12, it will not make the engine timed but my questions for ya'll r...
1) Is the 2.2 L engine an interference or non-interference engine, because from what I see online it should be non-interference so I shouldn't have bent or damaged any valves or pistons right?
2) How can I re-time the whole engine???
3) Will I be able to tell if the valves are good by taking the valve cover off, or do I have to take the cylinder head off (I'm really hoping I don't have to do that).
Thanx to all and anyone who can help!!!!

BXSS · Post by **BXSS** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 3:52 pm

I think the turbo 2.2s are non interface.

I did the same job + cam/crank seals on the wife's OBS this past Fri.

The cam marks are on the back cover @ 12 o-clock & the crank mark is @ about 2 o-clock, but was hard to see (pulley key was facing down (about 5 o-clock)).

Funny thing is when I checked & was gettting everything set-up to change the seals/t-belt/tensioner I noticed her car was off timing.
1 cam was @ around 11 o-clock & the other was @ about 1 o-clock.
Off timing the car would start-up a little rough but would run fine after about a .5-1 min warm-up.

I just moved the cams into the proper 12 o-clock position (1 from 11-12, the other back from 1-12 o-clock).

Car start perfectly now & has noticeably more power.

93Subadan · Post by **93Subadan** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:03 pm

With the 2.2 L you shouldn't have damaged anything.

With the crankshaft mark at 12 o clock, you could be at TDC for either cylinder 1 or cylinder 2. The only way to really be sure is to use a compression gauge. To fix the problem I would remove the timing belt and turn the engine over so that cylinder 1 is at TDC, then with everything at 12 o clock, put the belt back on and count belt teeth to make sure it is tensioned correctly. 44 teeth between the passenger side camshaft and crankshaft markings, 40.5 teeth between the crankshaft and driver side camshaft markings.

93Subadan · Post by **93Subadan** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:24 pm

On second thought...you may want to leave the timing belt on as you turn the engine over to TDC on cylinder 1 so that the camshafts are in the correct position as well.

BXSS · Post by **BXSS** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:57 pm

I left the belt on & rotated everything together.

The car was running with the bad timing, so I rotated the crank until it was in the correct position (mark on timing gear lined up with the mark on the timing cover) then I took the belt off lined up the cams & installed the new seals / belt / tensioner.

I used a Genuine Subaru t-belt that had marks for the cam & crank timing locations.

I've used a long screwdriver to check TDC of #1 on inline engines before (pull #1 plug & stick the screwdriver in) which may work on a sohc Subaru.

Post by **Legacy777** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:14 pm

Guys.....it doesn't matter a hill of beans about TDC or any that crap. Just align the marks on the pullies with the timing belt covers, and align the mark on the BACK of the crank gear with the mark on the oil pump.

Put the new belt on with the marks matching the marks on the cam gears & crank gear.....and that's it. There is no need to find TDC.

Here are pictures from my timing belt install for reference if you like.
http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... imingbelt/

AfRoDeSiAk36 · Post by **AfRoDeSiAk36** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:21 pm

LEGACY777 question:

So even though I moved the camshafts and crankshaft idependently with the timing belt off, my timing will be good as long as I put both cams and crank timing marks adjacent to the markings on the engine themself, put the timing belt on (which has the markings on it to line it up with the cams and crank) and everything will be good? Reason why I'm asking is because that is basically what I did, but now the car won't start. Do I need to independently spin the cams until I feel cylinder 1 at it's highest point for the passenger side cam, and feel cylinder 3 at it's highest point for the driver side cam, then rotate the crank til I get the arrow lined up with the marking? Am I wrong in thinking the timing is off because I spun the camshafts with the timing belt off and now they r way off time?

evolutionmovement · Post by **evolutionmovement** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:48 pm

I think you may have used the arrows to align the cams. You want to use the ' | ' mark. I don't know what those arrows are for. Like Josh said, TDC is irrelevant and you can't damage anything by running the cam and crank out of phase. All you need to do is realign everything - that is your timing and that's all the engine cares about. Also make sure your tensioner is working since if it is not keeping the belt tight enough, the belt can slip a few teeth at start up.

AfRoDeSiAk36 · Post by **AfRoDeSiAk36** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 12:06 am

I really appreciate all of your guys input and help, I'll definitely take pics this time, so that if either I have trouble or just to show what marks I was using so the next person does not make the same mistake. Thanx a lot and u guys r great!!!!

AfRoDeSiAk36 · Post by **AfRoDeSiAk36** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:56 pm

Alright took off all applicable parts, undid the timing cover and took pictures of everything. When I get off of work I'll upload them just to show how far off my timing is off. As far as the arrow on the crankshaft, originally I put that to where it was lined up with the alignment mark, but as far as I see on your install LEGACY777 your crank arrow is pointing in the same direction that mine is. Does that arrow not need to be lined up with the alignment mark, if not what the heck is that arrow for???

Post by **Legacy777** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:14 pm

I'm not really sure what the arrow is for, however it is irrelevent to timing. Use the mark on the back of the crank gear.

AfRoDeSiAk36 · Post by **AfRoDeSiAk36** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:36 pm

Just so I know for when I rotate my cams to get them aligned, cylinder 1 and cylinder 3 are in sync with each other and 2 and 4 are aligned with each other right? That way when I rotate my cams I can feel down in the cylinders I can know which 2 r supposed to be up and which 2 r supposed to be down.

asc_up · Post by **asc_up** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:09 pm

It won't matter lol. They'll be exactly where they're supposed to be as long as those marks are lined up.

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Avid Reader First Time Poster....NEED HELP

Avid Reader First Time Poster....NEED HELP