EJ22E Refresh Questions

[supra90turbo]

So, long story short, ended up messing around in a parking lot last snowstorm with only 2 quarts in the pan

Light rod knock has turned into moderate and I need to get this thing fixed as I drive almost 100mi/day and I can tell it's getting worse.

I want to refresh and re-ring a spare block I have in the garage as it's in good shape, just came out of my old 95, but it's been sitting sans-valve cover for quite some time.

Here's my list.

*Remove Heads
*Send Heads to be cleaned
*Send Cams to Delta
*Remove Pistons
*Hone Cylinders
*Re-Ring Pistons (in good shape hopefully)
*Slight Porting on Heads
*Re-Assemble
*....
*Continue Beating


Any good places to obtain rings/gasket set? read: cheap

I found engine gasket set for $179
Piston Ring set is $56
Water Pump $37
Timing Belt $22
Cams $165
Machine shop $50

$550 (roughly)

Not what I had planned for this car at all...

Alternatively, I can buy an EJ22e anywhere, used of course, for $100 roughly, but condition varies.

Insight? Could use the help if anyone knows someone with a good EJ22e in MA/NH/RI area, putting up a WTB in the shed right now.

thanks,
Kurt

[ciper]

I strongly suggest you put a 2.5 liter block in place of your 2.2 since you are doing all this stuff.


If you insist on being slow then -

Replace the rod bearings at a minimum. I dont think I've ever seen bad main bearings but Subarus enjoy eating rod bearings for breakfast.

I think I got ACL race rod bearings for like 45 and the standard ones were 25 (btw Cosworth bearings are ACL race OEM)

Make sure the engine gasket set has the good headgasket in it.

If you are cheap I suggest scavenging the junk yard for Tbelt idlers. You cant tell they are going bad until you remove them and spin them by hand

Consider taking the oil pump apart to use loctite on the phillips screws inside and to shim the bypass.

[kimokalihi]

I'd really like to feel the difference between a 2.5 block and a 2.2 on an otherwise stock ej22e legacy.

[ciper]

I can give you an idea -

My stall speed went up at least 400 RPM
The Sunroof goes wide open when I take off quickly from a light (stupid Indiana built Legacys dont have the locking cover)

Its an increase in displacement of slightly more than 15.5% (2212 vs 2457). Even without considering the increase in compression ratio that should bump power by a minimum of at least 20hp/tq. The Ej25 with its matching computer is specced at ~30 more HP and ~25 more torque than the EJ22.

Using EJ25D complete longblock increases compression ratio from 9.5 to 9.7 supposedly. Using EJ253 complete longbock increases compression ration from 9.5 to 10. Using the Ej25 shortblock with your old EJ22 heads increases the compression ratio well over 11 LOL

If you choose EJ25D heads then you can easily convert to coil on plug eliminating the center mounted coil AND spark plug wires! The cam profiles on both EJ25D and EJ253 are more aggressive than the orginal EJ22

As a side benefit if you use a phase 2 block you can use an eight bolt transmission which supposedly reduces the chance of stripped gears, the revised thrust location and the large rod bearings.

[supra90turbo]

Thank you ciper!

Yes, I do insist on being slow. LOL!
Not necessarily so, but moreso from a reliability standpoint. This engine was original to the car @213,000mi, was beat DAILY and only died due to my own stupidity.

I have a Phase I EJ25 sitting on the floor of my garage with bad headgaskets, but it was quiet as a mouse.

I wonder, EJ25 + EJ22e Heads + Delta Cam 230's = ??

If I do this, I will need EJ22 head gaskets, correct? or is it the other way around? I can't ever seem to remember.

[ScottyS]

I can give you an idea -

My stall speed went up at least 400 RPM
The Sunroof goes wide open when I take off quickly from a light (stupid Indiana built Legacys dont have the locking cover)

Its an increase in displacement of slightly more than 15.5% (2212 vs 2457). Even without considering the increase in compression ratio that should bump power by a minimum of at least 20hp/tq. The Ej25 with its matching computer is specced at ~30 more HP and ~25 more torque than the EJ22.

Using EJ25D complete longblock increases compression ratio from 9.5 to 9.7 supposedly. Using EJ253 complete longbock increases compression ration from 9.5 to 10. Using the Ej25 shortblock with your old EJ22 heads increases the compression ratio well over 11 LOL

If you choose EJ25D heads then you can easily convert to coil on plug eliminating the center mounted coil AND spark plug wires! The cam profiles on both EJ25D and EJ253 are more aggressive than the orginal EJ22

As a side benefit if you use a phase 2 block you can use an eight bolt transmission which supposedly reduces the chance of stripped gears, the revised thrust location and the large rod bearings.

Wait, if you just swap the shortblock, what do you have to do EM-wise?

[kimokalihi]

Always use headgaskets that match the block.

[ciper]

Someone on Nasioc posted this recently - http://www.rpmmachine.com/engine-rebuil ... baru.shtml I wonder if its any good

Wait, if you just swap the shortblock, what do you have to do EM-wise?

If you use the red injectors from the EJ25D with a 92-94 computer then nothing needs to be changed
We aren't sure yet but it seems that the grey injectors on the 90-91 Legacy NA are a little smaller than the red ones on the 92-98.

That said I was running my EJ25D with red injectors using a 91 computer for a while.

I wonder, EJ25 + EJ22e Heads + Delta Cam 230's = ??

If I do this, I will need EJ22 head gaskets, correct? or is it the other way around? I can't ever seem to remember.

Youd probably have to run 89 octane but the car would be ficken fun!

You use the gasket with the bore of your block. All the EJ engines except the early EJ22 have the same cooling passage layout. If you want to use EJ25 block with early EJ22 heads then you need the "hybrid" gasket from Cometic. If you use any other heads then you can use the 610 or 642 MLS gasket from Subaru (dependant on piston choice)

Always use headgaskets that match the block.

That is pretty much always true except when early EJ22 heads are in the mix.

[supra90turbo]

Scotty: That's what I LOVE about these cars!

kimokalihi: Thanks. Gotta burn that in my head somehow. lol

ciper: Thanks again! I'll get my cams out to Delta and get this build underway.
This is going to be all stock stuff, and the cams are going to be my only cost from the looks of it. I'll probably need some little things, but for the most part, I have it all.

So here goes: the Phase I EJ25 that I have, came out of my girlfriends 96 outback. I put my spare ej22 in that and it's running fine.

Turns out that car also came with a full gasket kit for that engine.

Now, all I have to do is put my heads on that engine with the gaskets supplied. (it's an evergreen gasket kit) I'll take my chances I suppose, being that it's free.

I did a bit of reading and think that I'll go with the EJ18 Cams with Roller Rockers for performance and durability's sake

So now, the plan goes:

*Phase I EJ25
*EJ22e Heads
*EJ18 Cams (Delta 230's)
*EJ25 Gaskets
*EJ25 Injectors

About shimming the oil pump: Is this pretty obvious once I'm in there or do I need further instructions? How much to shim it? I've read 1 - 2 mm. Is this what's recommended?

Thanks
Kurt

[ciper]

You cant use the EJ25 gaskets with your heads unless you modify the gasket cooling passages or get the special gasket from cometic.

Is the evergreen gasket solid metal? If not you shouldnt use it. The new Subaru gaskets (and cometic) are multi layer steel which solves all of the headgasket issues.

I'd also suggest new rod bearings for the EJ25 at a minimum.

[supra90turbo]

Fair enough. Thank you Ciper. I will order some rod bearings for the EJ25 and a pair of headgaskets. Does my EJ22 qualify as an "early" one? I don't know the difference to be honest.

Thanks for all the input thus far, VERY helpful!

[SiCkSTi04]

this may help on more info and the gasket from cometic

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthr ... ankenstein

[Lunatech]

Just wondering if the ej25 block and the ej22 heads and turbo pistons would lower the compression to a more reasonable level.

Thoughts?

[Lunatech]

As a side benefit if you use a phase 2 block you can use an eight bolt transmission which supposedly reduces the chance of stripped gears, the revised thrust location and the large rod bearings.

Hold the phone. You say can use the 8 bolt transmission, is it not required? Will the old style one fit on there and just have extra holes? What about the short block itself, can you use it with the old heads and wiring harness?

[tturnpaw]

[quote="Lunatech"]Just wondering if the ej25 block and the ej22 heads and turbo pistons would lower the compression to a more reasonable level.

Thoughts?[/quote

ej22 heads on an ej25 block will raise the compression. I dont know how much but im curious, couldnt you use the ej257 head gaskets but get them thicker to lower the compression to a manageable street level? Like 10:1?

[ciper]

Hold the phone. You say can use the 8 bolt transmission, is it not required? Will the old style one fit on there and just have extra holes?

Of course. There are factory built cars with this config even.

What about the short block itself, can you use it with the old heads and wiring harness?

All EJ shortblocks are the same when it comes to external attachments. For a while I had a 99 Legacy block with a 2005 STI water pump, 2002 WRX engine mounts, 98 Outback transmission with 98 RS heads, 91 Legacy oil pan and Exhaust manifold... if I remember right lol Ive built to many engines from free parts.

Just wondering if the ej25 block and the ej22 heads and turbo pistons would lower the compression to a more reasonable level.

1. Ej22 heads suck ass :p
2. I got a compression ratio of 9.7 with the following specs -
Bore - 99.6
Stroke - 79
Headgasket bore - 101 (based on factory 2.5 gaskets)
Headgasket thickness - 1 (is this correct?)
Head volume - 40 (EJ22 heads)
Piston dish - 22 (stock EJ257, there are larger available)

Fair enough. Thank you Ciper. I will order some rod bearings for the EJ25 and a pair of headgaskets. Does my EJ22 qualify as an "early" one? I don't know the difference to be honest.

Early pretty much means anything pre MY99

[Lunatech]

Thanks for the clarification regarding the phase 1 and 2 block and transmission compatibility.

I know the Ej22 heads aren't the greatest, but it's what I have and I was just wondering.